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Brock Osweiler
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7817
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't watch an ASU game this year, didn't they change coaches?

Anyway, if Osweiler were in the same system he were for his Junior year he would have put up respectable statistics. Match that with his physical skills and he would have easily been competing to be the #1 QB in this draft class, IMO. He may very well have been the 1st QB taken simply because he possess more talent than any of them.

I'm still on the bandwagon that Denver made the right move in this selection. Looking at the next few years' draft prospects i don't think you will find as talented a player in the late first and second as Osweiler. Even if he doesn't pan out (with which i have never claimed her will) i find it difficult to fault Elway's logic here.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I didn't watch an ASU game this year, didn't they change coaches?

Anyway, if Osweiler were in the same system he were for his Junior year he would have put up respectable statistics. Match that with his physical skills and he would have easily been competing to be the #1 QB in this draft class, IMO. He may very well have been the 1st QB taken simply because he possess more talent than any of them.

I'm still on the bandwagon that Denver made the right move in this selection. Looking at the next few years' draft prospects i don't think you will find as talented a player in the late first and second as Osweiler. Even if he doesn't pan out (with which i have never claimed her will) i find it difficult to fault Elway's logic here.

They changed coaches. New QB is a bit interesting. Not a polished thrower but he knows how to move in the pocket. Just needs to develop throwing skills.
Osweiler declared imo because it was his best shot at getting drafted high. After Luck RG3 and Tannehill the prospects were all pretty similar tiered. I think Cousins was my 4th QB in it, if not 3rd. I thought it was a mistake for him to declare because he imo was lacking experience and needed to develop more. Denver was his perfect situation though so it may work out for the best. And as for this class being crap compared to the one he went in a lot of things many did not predict to happen happened. I expected Geno Smith to be a good prospect he was way better. Wilson got injured and lost his HC. Jones and Manuel were not good. Barkley looked way worse and got injured. Funny how a pretty good class fell apart at the top. Glennon I honestly cant remember my opinion of him last yr. Though this yr he is very similar to Os. Nassib I've liked for awhile but not a 1st round guy more of a mid rounder. Some also expect Bray to become a top tier player.
I dont think Os would be the #1 QB. He has major growths being in the NFL and next yr he'd have more game experience had he stayed in college but skills more refined because he has a much better coach that is focused on that aspect of him.
Macgregor wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Ya think KC would give up the #1 for him? probably not that far fetched.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

I dont think KC is even considering making that offer. He hasn't shown anything to them and giving a rival the #1 pick would not go well especially if Os wasn't very good.
germ-x wrote:

Overall, i have no problems with the selection....even if he doesn't pan out. I firmly believe that you just don't screw around with the QB position.

Also imo it was a pretty weak class. It explains why Elway moved back. He saw a lot of talent that's similar and said I can get some extra picks.

Edit: Also Elway and Demitroff are the 2 current GMs that installed that new test that's replacing the wonderlic so i think that bodes well for them knowing Os's IQ(probably had him take a test like it in an interview).
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dbronx42


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty strong words from Elway. Cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55115/elway-osweiler-would-be-top-qb-in-2013

Quote:
Friday, I asked Elway where he would rank Osweiler in this class of rookie quarterbacks.

First, Elway said strongly and without any hesitation.

From what Ive seen from this class and what Ive seen from Brock in the past year, Id put him first, Elway said. Would he be a top-10 pick? Im not sure, but hed definitely be a first-round pick .... Now, Im biased. But I really like what Ive seen from him."

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broncos67


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
Pretty strong words from Elway. Cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55115/elway-osweiler-would-be-top-qb-in-2013

Quote:
Friday, I asked Elway where he would rank Osweiler in this class of rookie quarterbacks.

First, Elway said strongly and without any hesitation.

From what Ive seen from this class and what Ive seen from Brock in the past year, Id put him first, Elway said. Would he be a top-10 pick? Im not sure, but hed definitely be a first-round pick .... Now, Im biased. But I really like what Ive seen from him."


I truly believe Osweiler has made very good strides. I say that because this FO doesn't usually heap praise on players unless it's deserved. It took them awhile to praise Derek Wolfe until his play became consistent. Same with Von Miller, Rahim Moore, and Ronnie Hillman. There's a trend. We hear how good a player is when he's truly been good. That's been a trend so far, so I'll trust Elway here.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
Pretty strong words from Elway. Cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55115/elway-osweiler-would-be-top-qb-in-2013

Quote:
Friday, I asked Elway where he would rank Osweiler in this class of rookie quarterbacks.

First, Elway said strongly and without any hesitation.

From what Ive seen from this class and what Ive seen from Brock in the past year, Id put him first, Elway said. Would he be a top-10 pick? Im not sure, but hed definitely be a first-round pick .... Now, Im biased. But I really like what Ive seen from him."

That jives with what I've read and heard as well as what I've been told from my source inside Dove Valley. They are all really, really high on Osweiler. They might be going a little bit overboard, but it's changed my opinion of the pick. If everyone is as excited about him as they are they have to be on to something, it's not just PR anymore.

At this point, I'm hoping Osweiler is a blow-away success not only because it's good for us but because it dump a gross ton of eggs on the faces of uninformed nimrods in the Denver media who make a point of bashing Osweiler on a daily basis (saying, among other things, that he will be out of the league in 5 years) on their amateurish radio show.
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
dbronx42 wrote:
Pretty strong words from Elway. Cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55115/elway-osweiler-would-be-top-qb-in-2013

Quote:
Friday, I asked Elway where he would rank Osweiler in this class of rookie quarterbacks.

First, Elway said strongly and without any hesitation.

From what Ive seen from this class and what Ive seen from Brock in the past year, Id put him first, Elway said. Would he be a top-10 pick? Im not sure, but hed definitely be a first-round pick .... Now, Im biased. But I really like what Ive seen from him."

That jives with what I've read and heard as well as what I've been told from my source inside Dove Valley. They are all really, really high on Osweiler. They might be going a little bit overboard, but it's changed my opinion of the pick. If everyone is as excited about him as they are they have to be on to something, it's not just PR anymore.

At this point, I'm hoping Osweiler is a blow-away success not only because it's good for us but because it dump a gross ton of eggs on the faces of uninformed nimrods in the Denver media who make a point of bashing Osweiler on a daily basis (saying, among other things, that he will be out of the league in 5 years) on their amateurish radio show.


Glad you are coming around. You and I along with others had a bunch of heated exchanges on the wisdom of drafting Osweiller and you saw it as a flat out wasted pick.
I remain steadfast it was a brilliant pick with the future waiting as judge.

Same thing is happening with the apparent decision to go with Irving and Johnson at MLB. A few guys particularly Anti-superstar see this as laughable. Me thinks they will be forced to reverse their position soon.
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Mile High


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Osweiler was drafted I hated the pick. I thought (and to some extent still think) that we need a legitimate 1st round quarterback (like Aaron Rodgers) to backup Manning not a later round pick and assuming he would develop because of Manning (see Jim Sorgi).

Osweiler was a 3rd round pick at best in his draft and is IMO the 8th best QB in the draft, behind (Luck/RG3/Wilson/Tannehill forever - and behind but able to beat Cousins/Weeden/Foles in the future).

So at the time I wasn't happy with the pick. The question is does this years really weak QB class make me happier about the Osweiler pick. The answer is an unequivocal maybe. Osweiler is that 1st round guy that I want in this draft i agree is no doubt a first round pick. I could see him going as early as 7 to Arizona in this draft.

I think my final decision on Osweiler will have to do with my analysis of next years class. If he as a prospect is in the top 5 of that group I will be happy. If not I won't be.

That said I hope that we draft talent for Osweiler and not Manning. (Meaning guys more like Austin than Stokley for the slot)
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High wrote:

I think my final decision on Osweiler will have to do with my analysis of next years class. If he as a prospect is in the top 5 of that group I will be happy. If not I won't be.



Maybe I'm misreading this MH but it sounds kinda funny to me. Very Happy

Seems like your "final decision" on Os would have more to do with analysis of his play and improvement this year than any comparison to potential top 5 QB's next year. An almost impossible comparison to make by the way. Wink
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High wrote:
When Osweiler was drafted I hated the pick. I thought (and to some extent still think) that we need a legitimate 1st round quarterback (like Aaron Rodgers) to backup Manning not a later round pick and assuming he would develop because of Manning (see Jim Sorgi).

Osweiler was a 3rd round pick at best in his draft and is IMO the 8th best QB in the draft, behind (Luck/RG3/Wilson/Tannehill forever - and behind but able to beat Cousins/Weeden/Foles in the future).

So at the time I wasn't happy with the pick. The question is does this years really weak QB class make me happier about the Osweiler pick. The answer is an unequivocal maybe. Osweiler is that 1st round guy that I want in this draft i agree is no doubt a first round pick. I could see him going as early as 7 to Arizona in this draft.

I think my final decision on Osweiler will have to do with my analysis of next years class. If he as a prospect is in the top 5 of that group I will be happy. If not I won't be.

That said I hope that we draft talent for Osweiler and not Manning. (Meaning guys more like Austin than Stokley for the slot)


If you get a quarterback who is immediately upper echelon, or develops into an upper echelon talent... Who the hell cares where you picked him?

QB is the one position where you absolutely must have a guy whose top 10-12 in the NFL if you want to be a real championship contender. Get that guy wherever you can. Its looking more and more like we got INCREDIBLE value with the Osweiler pick. Pundits have even said it all combine. "Broncos did what teams can rarely do, got a 1st round qb talent in the 2nd." The picks being praised league wide a year after its been made. That says something.
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Mile High


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should clarify that I'm judging the value of the pick rather than the player.

I think that any speculation on Osweiler is useless until we see a sizable sample of him as a starting quarterback in the National Football League. Anything else is simply speculation.

The value of Osweiler as a prospect (not accounting for how they play in real NFL games) has to do with how and where we drafted him compared to other elite quarterbacks. As a prospect.

Also for the record NFL "sentiments" on backup quarterbacks mean absolutely nothing because I have seen plenty of backup quarterbacks (see Wisenhunt or Flynn) do absolutely nothing after the NFL pundits said they were quality.
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copeland


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High wrote:
I should clarify that I'm judging the value of the pick rather than the player.

I think that any speculation on Osweiler is useless until we see a sizable sample of him as a starting quarterback in the National Football League. Anything else is simply speculation.

The value of Osweiler as a prospect (not accounting for how they play in real NFL games) has to do with how and where we drafted him compared to other elite quarterbacks. As a prospect.

Also for the record NFL "sentiments" on backup quarterbacks mean absolutely nothing because I have seen plenty of backup quarterbacks (see Wisenhunt or Flynn) do absolutely nothing after the NFL pundits said they were quality.


Maybe I'm not understnding you here, so I need clarification.
If you are judging the value of the pick, and not the player, it is simply a mid 2nd round valued pick. I don't understand how you can draw a conclusion and leave the player out of the equation?
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Mile High


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

copeland wrote:
Maybe I'm not understnding you here, so I need clarification.
If you are judging the value of the pick, and not the player, it is simply a mid 2nd round valued pick. I don't understand how you can draw a conclusion and leave the player out of the equation?



I am simply differentiating what he does as a player to what he was as a prospect compared to the other prospects in his class.

As a prospect Osweiler was a 3rd round prospect at best and we got him in the 2nd. I want a 1st round prospect.

What raises Osweiler's value as a prospect is the apparent decline in talent at QB position based on this very poor QB class and the so far so bad next year's class.
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copeland


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High wrote:
copeland wrote:
Maybe I'm not understnding you here, so I need clarification.
If you are judging the value of the pick, and not the player, it is simply a mid 2nd round valued pick. I don't understand how you can draw a conclusion and leave the player out of the equation?



I am simply differentiating what he does as a player to what he was as a prospect compared to the other prospects in his class.

As a prospect Osweiler was a 3rd round prospect at best and we got him in the 2nd. I want a 1st round prospect.

What raises Osweiler's value as a prospect is the apparent decline in talent at QB position based on this very poor QB class and the so far so bad next year's class.


So in the end, you simply don't think Osweiler was worthy of the 57th pick, and you don't like the value based on what he was as a prospect?
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember after being really pissed for a few days after the draft, going back and looking at player rankings and big boards.

Surprised me a bit that the 55-60 range was where many had Osweiler rated. You didn't have to like the pick, but he wasn't a reach.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In talking to people, listening to the radio, reading comments on message boards such as here and elsewhere, I've come to the conclusion that Broncos fans and followers can be divided into two camps.

The first, and these folks all hate the Osweiler pick, think we need to be in total "win now" mode. These folks want us to sign free agents like Ed Reed, Brian Urlacher, Steven Jackson, Wes Welker and spend our draft picks on players who will start at key positions immediately be upgrades over the players they replace. The logic is that we signed Peyton Manning to win a Super Bowl in 2012-2014 period so we need to do everything we can that we think helps achieve that end, 2015 and beyond be damned. It's a understandable position to have and the one I used to hold. Honestly, it's the approach Mike Shanahan used when he took over the franchise in 1995. The result was back-to-back Super Bowls so it's understandable that this is route many fans want us to take.

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive. This group believes primarily in building through the draft and using veteran free agency solely as a means to supplement the team around the edges. The free agents that are signed are second- and third-tier free agents who are young and in their primes, affordable and will happily play a supplemental, rather than starring, role on the team. Players like Mike Adams, Joel Dreessen, Trindon Holliday, Jacob Hester and Tracy Porter fit this mold. If things don't work out with these players, they are let go and the team is not left high and dry at a key position nor deep in the red financially. The draft is where the core of the team is constructed. The plan is that early (1-2) round picks should compete for and win starting jobs their first year (Von, Moore, Franklin, Wolfe) while middle and late round picks are developed for the future while contributing on special teams and as situational players in the mean time (Irving, Bolden, Trevathan, Green, Hillman, Jackson). This is the same approach to roster building that has been used to great success by the Packers, Giants, Ravens, Colts and Steelers, winners of six of the last seven Super Bowls.

Anyway, this is just an observation I had and thought it was worth sharing. Agree? Disagree?
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