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SoCalNiner's Dream 2013 Off-Season
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2119
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Love the coaching addition. Like the signings (but go ahead and take your wildest guess at FA signings - would love to see what you see us adding there). Like your choice for guys you let go. Pretty much like the draft ... except I really don't want us to "waste" our first pick on Hankins. In the first place I watch a lot of Big 10 ball and while I think he's good I rarely saw him dominate a game. My other reason will be controversial ... I just don't value a NT that highly. Before you all jump on that you have to remember that we play a true 3-4 probably only half the time. I don't know what Soap's play count was compared to Raymac or Justin, but I'll bet it was much lower. I'd prefer to see us give the spottor RJF who I think can do a credible job and use our first on a DE which is a much more important position for us and where Justin's departure or injury would really hurt us.


Thanks for the feedback. Which DT/DE do you like to replace Sop?


RJF can hold down the position, but we'd definitely need a solid guy to groom. Either of the Williams guys (Brandon or Sylvester) would be able spell RJ and replace him in a year or two. Hopefully one of those would be around in the third. A longer shot, but a guy I've seen play a few times and liked is Jordan Hill. He's too small now, but so is RJF until he beefs back up. I think Hill can safely add 10 pounds and be solid in the middle. There's just always seemed to be making his presence on the field felt whenever I've seen him play.


Sylvester is a guy I think we'd look at. I think it was oldie who said that he'd be like another RJF for us, and I think it's pretty accurate.


Eh, Sly's not really a NT type. He's better at rushing the passer than stopping the run. He'd be a DE in a 34.
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blast


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one that feels like the NT position isn't exactly a pressing need for this team? Someone pointed out that Sop only played for roughly 30% (give or take) of the defensive snaps. Himself and RJF could relatively be resigned to a reasonable contract.

It might just be me thinking crazy, but I legitimately feel that the players on this team, WANT to play for the 49ers and WANT to remain with the organization.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blast wrote:
Am I the only one that feels like the NT position isn't exactly a pressing need for this team? Someone pointed out that Sop only played for roughly 30% (give or take) of the defensive snaps. Himself and RJF could relatively be resigned to a reasonable contract.

It might just be me thinking crazy, but I legitimately feel that the players on this team, WANT to play for the 49ers and WANT to remain with the organization.



The NT position won't be in as high demand in the next few years, I totally agree. I think we should get a big pile mover that can play some NT (and share the load with RJF) and can give a push from the DE spot in a rotation. Someone who would take RayMac's spot on the inside on nickle and dime sets (not that RayMac is bad, but he seems much better in the base 3-4 than in the 4-men fronts). I really wouldn't mind Jesse Williams.
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NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2888
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
NcFinest9erFan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
I don't know what Soap's play count was compared to Raymac or Justin, but I'll bet it was much lower. I'd prefer to see us give the spottor RJF who I think can do a credible job and use our first on a DE which is a much more important position for us and where Justin's departure or injury would really hurt us.


According to Pro Football Focus, Sopoaga played 31 percent of the defensive snaps... and I agree. I really don't see Hankins drawing extra OL any more than RJF would.


How did RJF look when he did come in as the NT? I didn't hear anything bad about him so no news is good news?


He was solid.. not perfect every snap, but neither was Sopo. RJF saw less time at NT later in the year when we were resting Justin.. and especially when Justin was hurt. RJF plays nasty and has natural strength and leverage... stout lower half. When he came out, he was 295 lbs... then bulked up the first couple years to 310... I suspect we asked him to drop back down, so that he could be useful at both DE/NT spots. So now, I'd like him to get beefed back up and focus on being that 30-ish % base NT.


I remember PFF or outsiders (one of those) having him rated as the worst NT this year. I'm not sure if it's skewed because he's played 30% of the snaps, but the NT position is definitely something I feel we can upgrade. It is the 2nd more important defensive position next to OLB. Wink


I think he was ranked 68th out of all DT.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ ... and Vernon Davis was ranked 29th best TE of the 2011 year by PFF.

Let's face it... what PFF does is good in some cases, but their collective task is enormous and I doubt they can really account for everything and everyone accurately.
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
^ ... and Vernon Davis was ranked 29th best TE of the 2011 year by PFF.

Let's face it... what PFF does is good in some cases, but their collective task is enormous and I doubt they can really account for everything and everyone accurately.


Well said. Some of PFF's rankings are alright, but they'll throw in a few head scratchers at times. They ranked Pierre Thomas as a top 5 back this year when he had less than 500 yards rushing and 2 total touchdowns.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
blast wrote:
Am I the only one that feels like the NT position isn't exactly a pressing need for this team? Someone pointed out that Sop only played for roughly 30% (give or take) of the defensive snaps. Himself and RJF could relatively be resigned to a reasonable contract.

It might just be me thinking crazy, but I legitimately feel that the players on this team, WANT to play for the 49ers and WANT to remain with the organization.



The NT position won't be in as high demand in the next few years, I totally agree. I think we should get a big pile mover that can play some NT (and share the load with RJF) and can give a push from the DE spot in a rotation. Someone who would take RayMac's spot on the inside on nickle and dime sets (not that RayMac is bad, but he seems much better in the base 3-4 than in the 4-men fronts). I really wouldn't mind Jesse Williams.


Maybe it's just, but I'd like a guy who can command a double team up the middle to free up our better edge rushers.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
blast wrote:
Am I the only one that feels like the NT position isn't exactly a pressing need for this team? Someone pointed out that Sop only played for roughly 30% (give or take) of the defensive snaps. Himself and RJF could relatively be resigned to a reasonable contract.

It might just be me thinking crazy, but I legitimately feel that the players on this team, WANT to play for the 49ers and WANT to remain with the organization.



The NT position won't be in as high demand in the next few years, I totally agree. I think we should get a big pile mover that can play some NT (and share the load with RJF) and can give a push from the DE spot in a rotation. Someone who would take RayMac's spot on the inside on nickle and dime sets (not that RayMac is bad, but he seems much better in the base 3-4 than in the 4-men fronts). I really wouldn't mind Jesse Williams.


Maybe it's just, but I'd like a guy who can command a double team up the middle to free up our better edge rushers.


I'd prefer to have a guy who can actually get to the QB. Shaun Rogers in his prime is my ideal kind of guy. In any case, our NT only plays about 30% of the time and teams probably run way more than they pass on those downs. So his effectiveness as a pass rusher is almost a moot point.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
blast wrote:
Am I the only one that feels like the NT position isn't exactly a pressing need for this team? Someone pointed out that Sop only played for roughly 30% (give or take) of the defensive snaps. Himself and RJF could relatively be resigned to a reasonable contract.

It might just be me thinking crazy, but I legitimately feel that the players on this team, WANT to play for the 49ers and WANT to remain with the organization.



The NT position won't be in as high demand in the next few years, I totally agree. I think we should get a big pile mover that can play some NT (and share the load with RJF) and can give a push from the DE spot in a rotation. Someone who would take RayMac's spot on the inside on nickle and dime sets (not that RayMac is bad, but he seems much better in the base 3-4 than in the 4-men fronts). I really wouldn't mind Jesse Williams.


Maybe it's just, but I'd like a guy who can command a double team up the middle to free up our better edge rushers.


I'd prefer to have a guy who can actually get to the QB. Shaun Rogers in his prime is my ideal kind of guy. In any case, our NT only plays about 30% of the time and teams probably run way more than they pass on those downs. So his effectiveness as a pass rusher is almost a moot point.



That's why I'd prefer a smaller NT/DE hybrid, so we can get more out of him, not just someone who will play 15-20 snaps a game because of his inability to play on passing downs. I loved BJ Raji, in his draft year, because he had the size and strength to play the nose and the athleticism to play the end. He has certainly not lived up to my expectations, but he's still a very good player. oldman suggested Kawann Short earlier. I like him, but more as a full-time DE. He's very quick, but I haven't seen his power. I like Richardson as a DE as well. But a guy like Jesse Williams is much more intriguing to me. He's as 320lbs right now and will probably run a sub-5 40 yards at the combine. I wouldn't mind if he dropped 10lbs and be lighter on his feet and perhaps increase his stamina. He has all the upper body strength in the world, he can give a hell of a push up the middle, and with work under Tomsula, he could develop his technique. That's a guy I could see rotate both at NT and DE.

I think we're way past the "prototypical" 2-gap 3-4 defense of our fathers. The goal isn't to fit the 320lbs NT peg in the 320lbs NT hole. The point is for the DL to bring more power than the OL can handle. A slow run-plugging 350lbs NT wouldn't achieve that, in my opinion.
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