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Would you want to steal Flacco for two 1st rd picks?
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31370
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only draw back from getting Flacco is I really really really really want Clowney and getting Flacco would ruin that lol
to me thats the only negative about the slim chances of getting Flacco lol
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??
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Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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Productiondawg


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Hell, we've only spent three first round picks since 99' trying to solidify the franchise position. Yeah, totally not worth it (if the oppotunity actually was there) to trade two picks for a guy already in his prime and on top of the world currently. A guy that just had arguably the best post season run in NFL history, but people want to only point at his regular season stats (nearly a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, 60% comp, not quite the Joe Namath some try to make him out to be) and say he isn't worth two picks. We have had 15 first round picks since coming back in 99', and we have missed on at least 9 of those picks. We fail far more than we succeed at drafting first round talent. Everyone is so enamored by the picks, by the mystery of who will be the next first round pick for us, that people actually are saying no, lets not give up two unproven commodities for the reigning Super Bowl MVP. WOW.


Pretty much my feelings on this.

Already spent two first round picks on QBs (Couch, Quinn). How'd that work out for us?


I agree with all this as well. The 1st rounders mean nothing if he takes us to the next level, which with the offense we have in place already I definitely think its possible. The contract doesn't bother me at all either because as buno said, it will be very front loaded to make sure the rats can't match it, plus after all the other QBs get their new contracts in two to three years, this one will seem a lot better.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??


im pretty sure you are allowed to do that...you dont see it happen a lot because of Salary cap numbers but the Browns have like $35million in cap space where they could front load that first year so the Ravens cant match it because they just cant match the contract

i know it might be a slim chances but the end result will weaken the Ravens one way or another...they either have to replace there starting qB or go into the offseason replacing 5 defensive starters and possibly upset there other star players
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8485
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Productiondawg wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Hell, we've only spent three first round picks since 99' trying to solidify the franchise position. Yeah, totally not worth it (if the oppotunity actually was there) to trade two picks for a guy already in his prime and on top of the world currently. A guy that just had arguably the best post season run in NFL history, but people want to only point at his regular season stats (nearly a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, 60% comp, not quite the Joe Namath some try to make him out to be) and say he isn't worth two picks. We have had 15 first round picks since coming back in 99', and we have missed on at least 9 of those picks. We fail far more than we succeed at drafting first round talent. Everyone is so enamored by the picks, by the mystery of who will be the next first round pick for us, that people actually are saying no, lets not give up two unproven commodities for the reigning Super Bowl MVP. WOW.


Pretty much my feelings on this.

Already spent two first round picks on QBs (Couch, Quinn). How'd that work out for us?


I agree with all this as well. The 1st rounders mean nothing if he takes us to the next level, which with the offense we have in place already I definitely think its possible. The contract doesn't bother me at all either because as buno said, it will be very front loaded to make sure the rats can't match it, plus after all the other QBs get their new contracts in two to three years, this one will seem a lot better.


To me the contract is pretty meaningless in this discussion. If you want a top level QB, the guy is going to have a top level contract. There is NO WAY around that at the QB position.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8485
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??


im pretty sure you are allowed to do that...you dont see it happen a lot because of Salary cap numbers but the Browns have like $35million in cap space where they could front load that first year so the Ravens cant match it because they just cant match the contract

i know it might be a slim chances but the end result will weaken the Ravens one way or another...they either have to replace there starting qB or go into the offseason replacing 5 defensive starters and possibly upset there other star players


I understand that, but there HAS to be some rules in place to prevent giving a guy 50 million the first year and then the league minimum the next few years.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??


But if we trade those 2 first rounders Baltimore will be making the draft picks, not us. I don't know what their success rate is, but recent history says they will be fairly high picks. I just don't want them to have those picks.

Oh, also I'm not a huge Flacco fan.
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H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??


im pretty sure you are allowed to do that...you dont see it happen a lot because of Salary cap numbers but the Browns have like $35million in cap space where they could front load that first year so the Ravens cant match it because they just cant match the contract

i know it might be a slim chances but the end result will weaken the Ravens one way or another...they either have to replace there starting qB or go into the offseason replacing 5 defensive starters and possibly upset there other star players


I understand that, but there HAS to be some rules in place to prevent giving a guy 50 million the first year and then the league minimum the next few years.


It's not only that, but we all know how professional athletes are. They get that big money upfront, then their agent gets in their ears telling them how the remaining years left aren't satisfactory to their level of play, and they demand more money. It happens EVERY time.

This is fun to discuss, BUT, Joe Flacco will be going nowhere. We've been talking about it for how many years now, needing a franchise QB to get that elusive championship. Would I make the trade, and pay what he wants? Absolutely. But football teams do not let their franchise QB's walk over money. Hell, Denver just paid Peyton Manning a crapload of cash and nobody knew how he would do after the neck surgery that sidelined him an entire year.
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dawgpound1816


Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Discussing the possibility of Flacco ending up in Cleveland, beat writer Mary Kay Cabot said she "really (doesn't) think it's realistic," and believes Flacco earning the right to negotiate with other teams via the non-exclusive tag "will not happen." Both the Baltimore Sun and SI's Peter King have fueled speculation that the Ravens might opt for the non-exclusive tag, but it's appearing less and less likely by the day. The Browns' vast 2013 cap space would allow them to make a meaningful run at Flacco in the event he gets the non-exclusive tag. Feb 12 - 2:54 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/4677/joe-flacco

If they do go with non-exclusive tag....what would the price point be then?

Last year we were willing to give up a bigger farm for RG3, so what's the difference by getting a Super Bowl MVP, a rivals soul and a great QB for us?

I don't care either way, b/c of the likeliness this would occur.....but if it did....I'd be happy to cheer for a good QB on the Browns for a change.

As of now.....we all have true hope for Weeden.

I'm not going to lie......I threw a 55 gal garbage can full of empty beer bottles when Weeden got drafted. This would make me smile.

By the way......If we did end up with Flacco somehow....Troy Smith is available for them to pick up in FA. Just sayin.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Two 1st rounders (with a very strong likelihood one of them ends up not very good based on the history of 1st rounders), for a franchise QB entering his prime............and crippling the best team in our division for at least a couple years.

Yes please.

Just a shame it has no chance of happening because Flacco wont be available to us in any way, shape, or form.

Now, I know some of you keep talking about frontloading contracts. Arent there some rules against stuff like that?? Like the contract has to be spread out a certain percentage each year or something??


But if we trade those 2 first rounders Baltimore will be making the draft picks, not us. I don't know what their success rate is, but recent history says they will be fairly high picks. I just don't want them to have those picks.

Oh, also I'm not a huge Flacco fan.


Thats why I am wondering exactly what the rules are for this stuff. If we can trade pick 6 and give up our 2014 and 2015 1st rounders, that would be incredible because with FLacco, those picks would be MUCH lower than pick 6.

And I am more worried about what my team does, not what they do. ANd regardless of what the Ravens would do with those picks, if we have FLacco and they don't, we are going to be ahead of the for a few years anyway.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:

Ozzie Newsome is not an idiot. He knows how important Flacco is to the team, which is the reason why Flacco has all kinds of leverage in the first place.

Ozzie knows that if they lose Flacco, any picks or salary cap relief won't make up for his loss unless they get a top 10 QB, which will be VERY unlikely for a while until one becomes available.

Ozzie can also get full of himself and his ability of finding great talent. He could always think that if they lose Flacco for two first rd picks that he could replace him with another young QB from the draft

If the Ravens don't sign Flacco or don't put the exclcusive tag on him then sure, the Browns could EASILY get him.

Thing is, it won't get to that point. That's the super improbable part of it.

I need to check to see if Vegas has odds on this. I would bet my life savings FLacco stays a Raven.

Im not saying he is going to leave the Ravens but there chance is there. Hell if the Ravens do keep them than it means they will let go of Bolden because he is making 8mil a year and or they will fail to resign Ellerbe and Kruger. So basically they will lose both there ILB and a OLB in one offseason. They could replace Kruger with Upshaw if he keeps developing but its going to be hard to replace your two ILBs in one off season in the 3/4. You hear the posters on here complaining our the ILBs we have and we know good 3/4 ILBs dont grow on trees.

Ravens have to ask themselvee, Do you want to replace Flacco and spend a buttload of money on him and possibly get two first rd picks or let two really good young LBs that are important to their defense get away from them and possibly lose their 2nd best WR in Boldin.

I Feel like some of you who think this idea is too crazy to happen. It realistically could happen im not saying the odds are great but they are there.

Even if Flacco does resign the Ravens will be royally screwed at other postions on their roster




I am not sure how much more clearly I can say this.

Losing Flacco would hurt them MORE than losing those guys you mentioned.

Hmmm, try and replace your franchise super bowl MVP QB who wins wins wins..........or replace a couple defenders and a 30+ year old WR.

As I was saying Ozzie not an idiot. If he was "full of himself" and thought he could replace Flacco in this draft, that would make him a idiot. I just said, he ISN'T an idiot.


But as you said, there is a chance. There is also a chance I win the super lotto. IMO, both odds are pretty close to each other.


The Browns still showing interest in the Ravens will still kill them...im just saying with the option there the Browns need to go after him. Ravens are in cap hell. Flacco wants a big contract and the Ravens are unwilling to give it to him.

Ravens offered him a new contract last july worth around $16million a year...now he is coming off a superbowl MVP year...he is going to want big money.

There are two kinds of franchise tags. The one year franchise tag is worth $14.6million. Ravens do that and they will [inappropriate/removed] off their franchise QB behold belief. He knows he is worth more then that. If they do place that one year franchise tag on him it also means other teams are allowed to offer him other contracts and the Browns could steal him with a contract loaded with a poison pill. If the Ravens do a exclusive franchise tag on him meaning he is frozen with the Ravens and will forsure be with the Ravens next year would cost them around $20-22millions. Do you think the Ravens are going to pay him $20-22million for a single season?

If they do the exclusive tag they will lose Paul Kruger, one of the main reasons the Ravens won the superbowl beside Flacco and Bolden. They would most likely lose Cary Williams one of their better DBs. They would most likely lose Dannell Ellerbe. LB was a weakness before Ray announced he was retiring and it has the ability to get even thinner. They most likely wont be able to resign Ed Reed so he walks away. If they want to sign Flacco and be able to afford to resgin those other players they would need to talk to Ray Rice, Bolden, and Suggs and have them re-work their contracts to try and work free some more money.

Its just one sticky situation for the Ravens? do you drastically over pay for Flacco (exclusive tag him for 20-22million a year, because if they dont they will lose him) or you lose key members to you football team and than you [inappropriate/removed] off other key players of the team (rice, suggs, bolden) to rework their contracts maybe skim some money of their contracts so they can pay Flacco more money, which could upset them and ruin some chemistry.

im just saying Flacco is going to be the down fall of the Ravens...

like you keep saying is Ozzie is a smart man...do you not think he might like the idea of being able to keep a lot more players and use the two picks gain from Flacco to rebuild part of the team instead of giving Flacco 20milliong and killing the potential of the defense.

a lot of ppl are saying Flacco is overrated on here, maybe Ozzie will see that and just one year franchise tag him and hope no team offers him a crazy contract like the Browns could.

Also the contract they could offer wouldnt ruin the browns like it could ruin the Ravens. The Browns contract can be so front loaded that years down the road the Browns wont be handcuffed by it


I said I think the Browns should do it if they get the chance.

But, they aren't going to get the chance.

Did you just say Flacco is the downfall of the Ravens???? LOSING him would be the downfall of the Ravens.

Ozzie is a smart man, as we both know. He is smart enough to know that the most difficult thing to do in the NFL is find a top-end QB, and that you can not win without one barring the occasional super lucky season.


Sorry Buno, the 1 in a trillion longshot didn't pan out for us.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now we can raid their defensive free agents hopefully
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
now we can raid their defensive free agents hopefully


Not sure, it seems like FLacco's cap hit for this year is pretty low.

Man, I need to learn more about how these stupid frickin contracts work. A guy signs for 120 million for 6 years but only counts as 6 million or something like that against the cap this year??

Wouldnt they be kinda screwed if he counts for like 30 million in a couple years?

If someone would please enlighten me on what the cap hit is for their team for all 6 years it would be much appreciated.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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zelbell


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
now we can raid their defensive free agents hopefully


Not sure, it seems like FLacco's cap hit for this year is pretty low.

Man, I need to learn more about how these stupid frickin contracts work. A guy signs for 120 million for 6 years but only counts as 6 million or something like that against the cap this year??

Wouldnt they be kinda screwed if he counts for like 30 million in a couple years?

If someone would please enlighten me on what the cap hit is for their team for all 6 years it would be much appreciated.


one year he has a $29 million cap hit
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