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Would you want to steal Flacco for two 1st rd picks?
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
But does anyone even know the logistics of this if it were to happen?
If we traded the #6 pick would they get our 2014 and 2015 1sts??

If so, umm, we would HAVE to trade that pick, would be super stupid not to.
Maybe deal it too someone for their 2014 and 2015 1sts.


i dont know, possibly...

trade our #6 pick for a good defensive player...

so than Flacco would cost us our 2014 and 2015 pick..with Flacco they could be just late round picks. Hell we could just trade next years pick to just keep in the drafts.

trade our 2016 pick to get back into the 2015 draft, draft the 2017pick to trade back into the 2016 draft, trade the 2018 pick to make back into the 2017 draft and so on...could that ever happen? lol
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FEARtheELF


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
But does anyone even know the logistics of this if it were to happen?
If we traded the #6 pick would they get our 2014 and 2015 1sts??

If so, umm, we would HAVE to trade that pick, would be super stupid not to.
Maybe deal it too someone for their 2014 and 2015 1sts.


i dont know, possibly...

trade our #6 pick for a good defensive player...

so than Flacco would cost us our 2014 and 2015 pick..with Flacco they could be just late round picks. Hell we could just trade next years pick to just keep in the drafts.

trade our 2016 pick to get back into the 2015 draft, draft the 2017pick to trade back into the 2016 draft, trade the 2018 pick to make back into the 2017 draft and so on...could that ever happen? lol



#6 for Revis Twisted Evil
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dawgdish


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flacco is not worth 2 #1s and top QB money. That's what you pay for a GREAT QB, Flacco is good, not great. He seems to bail himself out with 1 long ball on an inexplicably blown coverage every game, and look average on the short to intermediate stuff. He got so lucky to even get past Denver in the playoffs. If defenses would just stay deep, he wouldn't have 1/2 the success he has.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is pretty great. It wasnt his fault his defense let denver control the game. On that TD pass the safety poorly played Flacco threw a great pass. It would of took the defender playing the ball perfect to defend it but he missed played it and it went for a score.
You look at his play in the post season and that makes him pretty great.


He also has never had a great pass blockers in front of him. He has been sackef at least 30 times every season. Weeden wad only sacked 28times this season. Imagine flaccos deep ball when he has time for the deep routes to fully develop. Now imagine how the top bring takn off now with Flacco and Gordon and little getting a chance to dominate the open middle.
2 1st for a top10 qb is a steal in the NFL. RGIII WENT for3 for god sake and Flacco is a better QB
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buno67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to some posters who think Flacco isnt worth two 1st rd picks...

possibly this year or next year the Browns might be taking a QB with their 1st pick. If the front office isnt sure about Weeden and someone like Geno and etc fall to us the Browns might take him cause they need a QB and if Weeden sucks this year like some ppl think then we are using a first rd pick on a QB. Either way the Browns are might get a QB with one of those two first rd picks...

im just thinking... we will most likely be investing a first rd pick into a QB, why not just invest another one and we get a QB who is fully ready to play...no learning curve, someone who is a proven NFL winner unlke any QB they could draft. We would have the QB with one of the strongest arms if not the strongest arm in the NFL. Get a QB who is 6'6 240+ who can last playing in our division has done it the past 5years.

If you think about it, Flacco would only really cost Cleveland one first rd pick because we will most likely be spending a first on a QB this year or next year. Mine as while just invest into a QB now, specially one that is a pretty damn good QB.

makes the Browns better
makes the QB position locked up for the next 5years at least
makes the Ravens worse
give the Browns potential to compete in the division and playoffs.
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cortes02


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
to some posters who think Flacco isnt worth two 1st rd picks...

possibly this year or next year the Browns might be taking a QB with their 1st pick. If the front office isnt sure about Weeden and someone like Geno and etc fall to us the Browns might take him cause they need a QB and if Weeden sucks this year like some ppl think then we are using a first rd pick on a QB. Either way the Browns are might get a QB with one of those two first rd picks...

im just thinking... we will most likely be investing a first rd pick into a QB, why not just invest another one and we get a QB who is fully ready to play...no learning curve, someone who is a proven NFL winner unlke any QB they could draft. We would have the QB with one of the strongest arms if not the strongest arm in the NFL. Get a QB who is 6'6 240+ who can last playing in our division has done it the past 5years.

If you think about it, Flacco would only really cost Cleveland one first rd pick because we will most likely be spending a first on a QB this year or next year. Mine as while just invest into a QB now, specially one that is a pretty damn good QB.

makes the Browns better
makes the QB position locked up for the next 5years at least
makes the Ravens worse
give the Browns potential to compete in the division and playoffs.


Buno, you have a lot of good points and obviously hindsight is 20/20 but what if Baltimore had lost to Denver in the playoffs? If Flacco doesn't make the 70 yard touchdown to Jacoby Jones his stat line would have been 17/34 for 261 yards and 2 touchdowns. Would you still want him for two first round draft choices? I think Flacco is a very solid QB but I must admit that I am very hesitant in regards to giving up 2 first round draft choices for him. There are a lot of what if's in regards to what is the best path for the Browns to take regarding their QB situation. I just feel that their are only a "small" handfull of QB's in the league worth 2 first round draft choices and Flacco is not one of them.

One last thought, if Flacco is such a great QB, then why would Baltimore even entertain the thought of tagging him with the non-exclusive franchise tag where he can negotiate with other teams as opposed to the exclusive franchise tag were he could only negotiate with them? I would think if he is a franchise QB, their is no way I would let him go.

Peace!!
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Productiondawg


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cortes02 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
to some posters who think Flacco isnt worth two 1st rd picks...

possibly this year or next year the Browns might be taking a QB with their 1st pick. If the front office isnt sure about Weeden and someone like Geno and etc fall to us the Browns might take him cause they need a QB and if Weeden sucks this year like some ppl think then we are using a first rd pick on a QB. Either way the Browns are might get a QB with one of those two first rd picks...

im just thinking... we will most likely be investing a first rd pick into a QB, why not just invest another one and we get a QB who is fully ready to play...no learning curve, someone who is a proven NFL winner unlke any QB they could draft. We would have the QB with one of the strongest arms if not the strongest arm in the NFL. Get a QB who is 6'6 240+ who can last playing in our division has done it the past 5years.

If you think about it, Flacco would only really cost Cleveland one first rd pick because we will most likely be spending a first on a QB this year or next year. Mine as while just invest into a QB now, specially one that is a pretty damn good QB.

makes the Browns better
makes the QB position locked up for the next 5years at least
makes the Ravens worse
give the Browns potential to compete in the division and playoffs.


Buno, you have a lot of good points and obviously hindsight is 20/20 but what if Baltimore had lost to Denver in the playoffs? If Flacco doesn't make the 70 yard touchdown to Jacoby Jones his stat line would have been 17/34 for 261 yards and 2 touchdowns. Would you still want him for two first round draft choices? I think Flacco is a very solid QB but I must admit that I am very hesitant in regards to giving up 2 first round draft choices for him. There are a lot of what if's in regards to what is the best path for the Browns to take regarding their QB situation. I just feel that their are only a "small" handfull of QB's in the league worth 2 first round draft choices and Flacco is not one of them.

One last thought, if Flacco is such a great QB, then why would Baltimore even entertain the thought of tagging him with the non-exclusive franchise tag where he can negotiate with other teams as opposed to the exclusive franchise tag were he could only negotiate with them? I would think if he is a franchise QB, their is no way I would let him go.

Peace!!


The reason why they won't want to use the exclusive tag is that it would mean a 20 million dollar cap hit, which would make it virtually impossible to resign, Ellerby, Kruger, Reed, Williams, and Bolden. Although they would like to keep some of them, being 5 million over already, they couldn't keep any of them with one guy causing a 20 million dollar cap hit.

I do believe he is a great QB, but no team could sacrifice that many players to keep him. That's why they will most assuredly get a long term deal done before free agency starts. If they don't, either way, they will be forced to take a pretty big risk.

Also, there are quite a few very good QBs with contracts expiring in the next few years such as Rogers and Ryan. So if you think about it, top 5 money this year, won't equal top five money in 2-3 years.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cortes02 wrote:

Buno, you have a lot of good points and obviously hindsight is 20/20 but what if Baltimore had lost to Denver in the playoffs? If Flacco doesn't make the 70 yard touchdown to Jacoby Jones his stat line would have been 17/34 for 261 yards and 2 touchdowns. Would you still want him for two first round draft choices? I think Flacco is a very solid QB but I must admit that I am very hesitant in regards to giving up 2 first round draft choices for him. There are a lot of what if's in regards to what is the best path for the Browns to take regarding their QB situation. I just feel that their are only a "small" handfull of QB's in the league worth 2 first round draft choices and Flacco is not one of them.


I say he is worth two first rds because over the years the Browns have wasted so many picks on trying to find a QB who can pan out and be a good starter. We can just eat the bullet. Put a damper on this draft and next draft and we get a QB who can make us competitive for the next 5-8years.

I also think if Moore plays the ball right. the play doesnt go for a touchdown. Moore under played the ball and it allowed Jones to get past him and turn that pass into a today. If Moore is over the top I see Moore making the tackle and stopping a touchdown. Still the Ravens are on the 20yard line with 30seconds left. I think Flacco still has a chance to put up a similar stat line. Even if he doesnt make that pass

but its all about ifs and butts. if he lose that game, I still would consider giving up two first rd picks but IMO one of those picks would be spent on a QB this year or next year and the other first rd pick just gives us a chance to get a legit established QB, make us favorites in the Division and it pretty much destroys the Ravens.

Its hard to over look him just completely pick apart the Pats and 49ers. 43/ 69 62.2% 527yards and 6TDs. That was an impressive run. He is 1-1 vs Manning and is 2-1 vs Brady and should be 3-0 vs Brady

If we were willing to spend 3 1st on RGIII, Two 1st for Flacco would be a steal.

also his career regular season stat line is this 54victories to only 26 loses. He has lead his team to 15game winning drives.

he's the QB Cleveland deserves!
cortes02 wrote:

One last thought, if Flacco is such a great QB, then why would Baltimore even entertain the thought of tagging him with the non-exclusive franchise tag where he can negotiate with other teams as opposed to the exclusive franchise tag were he could only negotiate with them? I would think if he is a franchise QB, their is no way I would let him go.


Like I said with the non-exclusive franchise tag, it would cost them $20-22million dollars for a single season!!! doing that would cause them to possibly lose a key ILB, a key OLB, a key DB, and a Key safety and it could force them to talk to starts like Suggs, Rice, and Boldin and ask them to re work their contract so Joe Flaccos can get his $20-22million. That could really make some players made.

If they do the reg franchise tag they would be tagging him for around $14mill, he just turned down a $16mill contract ext in july because he knows he is better than that and he proved that this season. If they do something like that, it would extremely make him mad.

Im saying the Situation the Ravens and Flacco are in is a very interesting and sticky situation all all parties involve.

Its basically...Do you want lose Flacco/gain two first rd picks or lose out on 4defensive starters and make rice, suggs, boldin the other stars on the team angry
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Braylon4MVP


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He would require two first round picks and possibly the largest contract EVER.. No thank you.
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cortes02


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying Buno. I'm just having a tough time believing that Baltimore would want to switch places with the Browns hypathetically when it comes to the QB situation. I totally understand that they do not want to lose any of their defensive players or star offensive players but in all honesty, isn't it easier to find replacements for those positions then it is to find a franchise QB? If Flacco is truly as good as many people are saying he is, couldn't Baltimore adopt the Patriot Philosophy and let other players go before they let their star QB go. Good players have come and gone in New England but the one constant has always been the QB. If Baltimore is willing to give up Flacco, it just raises a red flag for me I guess and it makes me think he is not as great as many people think. I just don't see the same thing happening if Brady/Peyton Manning/Breese were in the same scenario on their respective teams.

Like I said before, I think Flacco is solid, I just am not enomored with giving up 2 first round picks for him.

Peace!!
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H2ThaIzzo


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell, we've only spent three first round picks since 99' trying to solidify the franchise position. Yeah, totally not worth it (if the oppotunity actually was there) to trade two picks for a guy already in his prime and on top of the world currently. A guy that just had arguably the best post season run in NFL history, but people want to only point at his regular season stats (nearly a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, 60% comp, not quite the Joe Namath some try to make him out to be) and say he isn't worth two picks. We have had 15 first round picks since coming back in 99', and we have missed on at least 9 of those picks. We fail far more than we succeed at drafting first round talent. Everyone is so enamored by the picks, by the mystery of who will be the next first round pick for us, that people actually are saying no, lets not give up two unproven commodities for the reigning Super Bowl MVP. WOW.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Hell, we've only spent three first round picks since 99' trying to solidify the franchise position. Yeah, totally not worth it (if the oppotunity actually was there) to trade two picks for a guy already in his prime and on top of the world currently. A guy that just had arguably the best post season run in NFL history, but people want to only point at his regular season stats (nearly a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, 60% comp, not quite the Joe Namath some try to make him out to be) and say he isn't worth two picks. We have had 15 first round picks since coming back in 99', and we have missed on at least 9 of those picks. We fail far more than we succeed at drafting first round talent. Everyone is so enamored by the picks, by the mystery of who will be the next first round pick for us, that people actually are saying no, lets not give up two unproven commodities for the reigning Super Bowl MVP. WOW.


Pretty much my feelings on this.

Already spent two first round picks on QBs (Couch, Quinn). How'd that work out for us?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Hell, we've only spent three first round picks since 99' trying to solidify the franchise position. Yeah, totally not worth it (if the oppotunity actually was there) to trade two picks for a guy already in his prime and on top of the world currently. A guy that just had arguably the best post season run in NFL history, but people want to only point at his regular season stats (nearly a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, 60% comp, not quite the Joe Namath some try to make him out to be) and say he isn't worth two picks. We have had 15 first round picks since coming back in 99', and we have missed on at least 9 of those picks. We fail far more than we succeed at drafting first round talent. Everyone is so enamored by the picks, by the mystery of who will be the next first round pick for us, that people actually are saying no, lets not give up two unproven commodities for the reigning Super Bowl MVP. WOW.


Pretty much my feelings on this.

Already spent two first round picks on QBs (Couch, Quinn). How'd that work out for us?

Actually 3. Don't forget...


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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it be 2 first round picks that we've already made instead of future picks?

We could offer them Taylor and Weeden, they would probably counter with Thomas and Haden. We meet in the middle with Mack and Richardson.

(kidding)
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buno67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Braylon4MVP wrote:
He would require two first round picks and possibly the largest contract EVER.. No thank you.


yeah he would get one of the biggest contracts ever but it would be so front loaded to screw over the ravens that its not going to handcuff the Browns for years to come.

im sorry do you want to keep hoping that drafting a QB will finally pay off or do we buck up and pay for one of the better QBs in the league?

cortes02 wrote:
I understand what you are saying Buno. I'm just having a tough time believing that Baltimore would want to switch places with the Browns hypathetically when it comes to the QB situation. I totally understand that they do not want to lose any of their defensive players or star offensive players but in all honesty, isn't it easier to find replacements for those positions then it is to find a franchise QB? If Flacco is truly as good as many people are saying he is, couldn't Baltimore adopt the Patriot Philosophy and let other players go before they let their star QB go. Good players have come and gone in New England but the one constant has always been the QB. If Baltimore is willing to give up Flacco, it just raises a red flag for me I guess and it makes me think he is not as great as many people think. I just don't see the same thing happening if Brady/Peyton Manning/Breese were in the same scenario on their respective teams.

Like I said before, I think Flacco is solid, I just am not enomored with giving up 2 first round picks for him.

Peace!!


I see your point and your making a great counter arguement but you look at Brady he is making around $15million a year. If the Ravens do the exclusive franchise tag on Flacco they would be paying him $20-22million a year

I still find it funny posters are so attached to the picks. The Browns have never had a stable starting QB since Bernie. The Browns could have the chance to sign one in Flacco who can last for at least 5-8years at least. Hell, him playing with Joe Thomas could extend his career even longer to make him a solid starter for 10years for us. Hell getting someone like Flacco can finally give Joe Thomas the hype he needs by having to protect Flaccos blindside.

Also the one thing about the Pats/Tom Brady/Billy B, is they have that legit QB who can carry the team and it can allow the team to develop players. The Browns are always trying to develop WRs, RBS, and QBs at the same time. If we have an established QB it can allow the young playmakers develop properly. Bring in Flacco can def let our young WRs Little, TBen, and Gordan to properly. If that passing attack develops it will lead to the development of TRich.
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