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AAA's Mock Offseason v1.0
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think picking up Revis makes the defensive backfield truly unique. The Broncos would have two guys who can completely shutdown the wide receiver they are covering, a good majority of the time anyway. I am not an X's and O's guy, but I have heard what having Champ does for the defense and his ability to shutdown his side of the field. Evidently it allows the other CB to get some help from the safeties and such, and I will let others go over the strategy of that. Nevertheless, I can only think what it will be like to have Revis being able to shutdown his side of the field.

If having one CB who can shutdown his side of the field is good, then having another CB that can shutdown his side is better, right? Plus, you throw Chris Harris in the mix and perhaps Carter. This backfield becomes very hard to throw on, not to mention the fact that QB's are going to have to throw into that backfield with Doom and Von and Wolfe running them down. If the Broncos can also score a penetrating DT...this is a dominant defense. Manning and Co, will not have any pressures to score 30 points per game, they won't need to. I just cannot imagine teams scoring on this defense with Revis and Champ on it.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
copeland wrote:
I hope the Broncos don't make the trade for Revis.
He is elite, yes, but damaged, and carries more baggage than I would take on. It's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean they won't pull the triger.


Really no baggage besides him fighting each offseason to be paid what he's worth. Kind of understandable this time of year when you see guys getting cut. One injury changes everything, so when you're as good as Revis, it's important to get that big contract.

We belly ache, but we'd all probably do the same if we were in his position, in fact, our agents would advise us to, as Revis's has done. That guaranteed contract is the only way to guarantee your families financial future. Wait a year, maybe you suffer that Al Wilson injury?... Never know.


That's all well and good, but you are talking about what's good for him, not for the Broncos.
What's debatable is what's good for the Broncos as a team. I have never been a fan of big time trades or Big time FA signings, as it always seems the team that gets the big name, big conract, ends up regretting it in the end.
Sure it all sounds good right now, and we can restructure this and that to make it happen, but it sounds like a train wreck in waiting to me. If it ends up that he comes in and it all works out. Awesome. I will be glad I was wrong.
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just signed a big time FA last year, and Revis is a proven commodity. I can see some hesitance if he only had 1 good year aka Stanford Routt, but Revis has proven to be an elite player. And that is much less risky than you're portraying it.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
We just signed a big time FA last year, and Revis is a proven commodity. I can see some hesitance if he only had 1 good year aka Stanford Routt, but Revis has proven to be an elite player. And that is much less risky than you're portraying it.


So, assuming he comes back better than ever. How do you pay him without sacrificing the future?

Only way it can work financially is if we cut Champ or postpone his payoff (huge by the way) for a few years.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
We just signed a big time FA last year, and Revis is a proven commodity. I can see some hesitance if he only had 1 good year aka Stanford Routt, but Revis has proven to be an elite player. And that is much less risky than you're portraying it.


So, assuming he comes back better than ever. How do you pay him without sacrificing the future?

Only way it can work financially is if we cut Champ or postpone his payoff (huge by the way) for a few years.


It can work if Revis' cap hit isn't a lot in the earlier years of his contract.
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kansas bob


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what Revis will do for our defensive chemistry but I had rather pay the best $12M to $14M than Porter $4M IF we can afford him.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
We just signed a big time FA last year, and Revis is a proven commodity. I can see some hesitance if he only had 1 good year aka Stanford Routt, but Revis has proven to be an elite player. And that is much less risky than you're portraying it.


So, assuming he comes back better than ever. How do you pay him without sacrificing the future?

Only way it can work financially is if we cut Champ or postpone his payoff (huge by the way) for a few years.


It can work if Revis' cap hit isn't a lot in the earlier years of his contract.

Thats why I dont like it. Its pretty much postponing the inevitable. Bad cap problems.
1. We are already strong at the position.
2. Its too much money tied up in two players.
3. Multiple players must restructure, which I dont see happening just to accomidate one player.
4. If Revis tries to secure his future with his next contract, as Elliot has suggested, he will never sign a back loaded contract.
5. Im still not sure the Jets actually trade him. Hes by far their best player.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: AAA's Mock Offseason v1.0 Reply with quote

PackAtBroncos07 wrote:
I like him but we've seen youth kill us in important moments already. Can we really trust him in the playoffs? Nick Barnett was mentioned by someone, I kind of like that signing if he's got something left in the tank, or Brian Urlacher.

I'd prefer not to over-pay for a past-his-prime veteran; Urlacher and Barnett are exactly that. If the Bears are going to let the face of their franchise, the unquestioned fan favorite and team leader, walk then that says all we need to know about how much Urlacher has left in the tank. I'd rather keep DJ as a one season stop-gap at MLB and draft a mid-to-late round rookie to develop for a season than go to the well of 34+ year olds who will get paid for their name and not for their production.

PackAtBroncos07 wrote:
AAA, I'd prefer if we kept Moreno actually. I think he deserves his (last?) year, "deserves" being used loosely. He's such a good receiver out of the backfield, so good in space, and he's getting better between the tackles I think he'd be better for this offense and for Manning then McGahee. I don't know what the cap hit for McGahee would be but I'd almost prefer cutting McGahee and draft a guy like Stephan Taylor that you mentioned to groom in the later rounds.

mke1010 wrote:
Moreno has a low cap number with a year left on his deal. He will probably end up moving on but DEFINITELY not before his contract is up. He earned a roster spot for training camp this season with his maturity and hard work after he was benched. For someone who was projected to be a cancer in the locker room, he sure didn't act like one when he was demoted.

Knowshon has a base salary of $1.7m next year but various bonuses and pro-ratings from years past bump his cap number up to $3.287m. The only way to save money on that considering it's the final year of his rookie contract would be to extend him, and that's thing I want us to do. $3.287m is a big number for a RB who will see part-time duty at best sharing time with a healthy McGahee and Hillman who will be expected to have a larger role in his second season. I'd rather get a cheap free agent who is versatile, like Parmele and draft an every-down RB in the mid-rounds.

mke1010 wrote:
Finally, we are not trading for Revis. We cant afford to give that guy 15 plus million per year. Enuff said.

Does anyone around here actually read what I post? Does anyone read the Denver Post or ESPN or any other legitimate sports/football news? I guess not, so, for the thousandth time, MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH ACQUIRING REVIS. If you have other objections - his me-first demeanor, his injury, the cost in draft picks - I can respect that even if I disagree. But money will not prevent us from acquiring Revis.

copeland wrote:
What's debatable is what's good for the Broncos as a team. I have never been a fan of big time trades or Big time FA signings, as it always seems the team that gets the big name, big conract, ends up regretting it in the end.

That happens when you sign someone to a big contract based off their name even though their best years are behind them. I don't need to list the names because we all know them, but Mac and Shanahan both did that WAY too much - pay for a name not a player. But Revis is a different story as he's right in his prime. He will be 28 when training camp opens this summer; when Champ was 28 (2006) he had the best season of his career (was robbed of DPOY by the over-rated Jason Taylor) and, except for the playoff game against the Ravens, played at a borderline elite level this year. Like jsthomp2007 said, having Revis on the opponents #1 WR, Champ on the #2, Harris in the slot, Von, Doom, Wolfe and hopefully an attacking DT getting after the QB would make it virtually impossible to pass against us.

If Revis was 32 I would agree with you. But he'll turn 28 in July and, if he gets a clean bill of health, there's no reason to assume he's not going to be 95% the player he was the last 3 years. And Revis at 95% of his peak is better than 100% of the CBs in the NFL.

copeland wrote:
Thats why I dont like it. Its pretty much postponing the inevitable. Bad cap problems.
1. We are already strong at the position.
2. Its too much money tied up in two players.
3. Multiple players must restructure, which I dont see happening just to accomidate one player.
4. If Revis tries to secure his future with his next contract, as Elliot has suggested, he will never sign a back loaded contract.
5. Im still not sure the Jets actually trade him. Hes by far their best player.

1. Sort of. Harris is good and will get better. As I said some coaches think Carter is lazy and doesn't have enough between the ears to be anything more than a role-player. Champ is still very good but he's not great and we only have him under contract for 2 more years. Bolden has potential but right now it's just that, potential.
2. You pay your elite players at key positions; QB, LT, pass rusher, CB. How is $20-$25m for Champ and Revis "too much" but $20m for Peyton isn't. Having those 2 at CB would do almost as much for our defense as having Peyton has done for our offense. And, unlike Peyton and Champ, Revis isn't in the twilight of his career.
3. Why not? It happens all the time. Elway took a pay cut in 1995 so Shanahan go out and sign guys like Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, Ed McCaffery and Bill Romanoski. Why would team-first guys like Doom, Kuper and Champ, who want to win and know the window to do so is short, not restructure. Restructuring doesn't mean taking a pay cut, it's just changing the designation of bonuses, moving guaranteed money into the future, etc.
4. Why not? Guaranteed money is guaranteed money. If he signs a 6-year, $85m with $50m guaranteed why would care if his 8-figure seasons don't start coming until 2015? He's still going to make that $50m no matter what and probably will get the full amount of the contract so long as he stays healthy.
5. That's true. However, they are in salary cap hell, have no talent, their new GM wants to clean house and they're likely going to be unable to resign him in 2014 so it'd be smart to get a 1st and 2nd/3rd now rather than just a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick next year when he walks in FA. It's certainly far from certain he leaves, I put it at 50-50, but it's definitely possible.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert or anything but a lot of you guys need to read up on the CBA, the structure of NFL contracts and the inner-workings of salary cap management.
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAA- Money is not an issue with signing Revis? Are you kidding me? Just because we have cap space does not mean money is not a problem. Paying a free agent corner 15 plus million per season when we have guys like Clady, Von Miller, DT, Decker, Harris etc who will be demanding market value contracts soon is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the fact we already have big bucks tied up in Manning, Elvis, Champ and soon to be Clady. You add Revis to that and you have 5 guys taking up more than half the salary cap on a 53 man squad.

Let me say it once again cos apparently you are not reading what I am saying nor are you allowing your "want" of Revis let you see clearly. The Broncos cannot afford to go after Revis unless it means cutting either Dumervil or Champ. Money is definitely an issue. Cheers.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
AAA- Money is not an issue with signing Revis? Are you kidding me? Just because we have cap space does not mean money is not a problem. Paying a free agent corner 15 plus million per season when we have guys like Clady, Von Miller, DT, Decker, Harris etc who will be demanding market value contracts soon is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the fact we already have big bucks tied up in Manning, Elvis, Champ and soon to be Clady. You add Revis to that and you have 5 guys taking up more than half the salary cap on a 53 man squad.

Let me say it once again cos apparently you are not reading what I am saying nor are you allowing your "want" of Revis let you see clearly. The Broncos cannot afford to go after Revis unless it means cutting either Dumervil or Champ. Money is definitely an issue. Cheers.

You're wrong.

Look at things long-term. I would wager we have both Peyton ($20m) and Champ ($10.5m) for two more years. Champ is only under contract for 2 more years and, as I've said 92847589 times, if he still wants to play come 2015 and if the Broncos are interested in bringing him back, his salary will be half, at best, of what it is now. This current deal the last big-money contract of his career.

Regardless of for whom he plays in 2013, Revis' will play for the $6m salary he is scheduled to make. His new deal, even if signed next month, won't kick in the big bucks until 2014, at the earliest.

Dumervil's cap number in 2012 was $15.623m; it goes down to $11.623m in 2013 and to $9.186m in 2014, that's more than $5m in cap savings over what we paid him this past season.

2013 is the last season DJ Williams is under contract, his cap number currently for the upcoming season is $8.0825m. That will be reduced through re-negotiation or almost completely erased if we release DJ.

Chris Kuper has cap hits of $5.4m, $5.9m and $6.4m in 2013, '14 and '15, respectively. Not only is Kuper a candidate for restructuring, he's a potential cut come 2014. Joe Mays' $4.16m, will be gone this year.

We have very little "dead money." I think it's somewhere around $100,000 this year and, even if we cut a few bigger money players, it's not going to exceed $1m, or probably even approach it, in the next 3-4 years.

By the time 2014 rolls around and Revis starts making serious money, we have DJ's contract and Champ's contract off the books. We Peyton in his likely final year (I don't see Peyton playing into his 40s) and thus his $20m comes off the books in 2015. We have Doom in the final year of his deal in 2015 and making only a $9.8m cap hit (and does not factor in his almost guaranteed restructuring).

Clady, Von, Thomas are elite players and as such will get paid very handsomely. Decker will get paid nicely if we keep him; if he thinks he deserves a deal that pays him 8-figures a year, Elway will say thanks but no thanks. Decker is a good, but not great WR. He will get a good, but not great, contract. Chris Harris isn't going to get a gigantic contract either. You're over-rating some of our players and thus expecting us to over-pay them.

You say a team cannot have 5 players making more than half the cap but that's exactly what we have going into the 2013 season. Peyton ($20m), Doom ($13.6m), Champ ($10.5m), DJ ($8.8m) and Von ($5.7m), our top-5 paid players, currently make a combined $58.6m, or 48.4% of the estimated $121m cap.
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can agree to disagree.
Within a couple months, we will all know the direction the Broncos take in free agency. At that time, it will be clear which vision is proven correct.
I am willing to bet anything the Broncos are not going to seriously go after Revis despite all the rumors. We are going to draft for talent and supplement with cheap veteran free agents.
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Mr.MileHigh


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't like Revis. He just wants money then after that contract he wants another contract. I think Revis is past his prime. Id rather have Short he is the next the next Trevor Pryce in my eyes.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
We can agree to disagree.
Within a couple months, we will all know the direction the Broncos take in free agency. At that time, it will be clear which vision is proven correct.
I am willing to bet anything the Broncos are not going to seriously go after Revis despite all the rumors. We are going to draft for talent and supplement with cheap veteran free agents.


That won't prove who is correct, lol. Based off of what i have read is all AAA is saying is that Denver can go after Revis, afford it, and not be significantly sacrificing the future of the Denver Broncos.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we were talking about a guy like Geno Atkins I'd be all ears. IMO he'd do far more for our D than Revis, is much younger and has a great start as the best penetrating DT in the NFL. Sort of this generations Warren Sapp.
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