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AAA's Mock Offseason v1.0
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love, love, love this...hate to see Big Vick go...but that is just me. Also, isn't Skov going back to Stanford? Nevertheless, I believe your heart was in the right place in picking up a Major League Baseball player.
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whenmidgetsatak


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a huge fan of this. Dont like getting Revis. Its great for Madden, but titles are won with the big uglies. Thats why the Ravens and Niners were in it this year. Elite OL and Elite front 7.

Bad depth at WR

Relying too much on rookies for production on defense. We are in win now mode.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
Not a huge fan of this. Dont like getting Revis. Its great for Madden, but titles are won with the big uglies. Thats why the Ravens and Niners were in it this year. Elite OL and Elite front 7.

.


Thats a great quote. Very Happy
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seriously doubt that we stand pat on the OL. Also, there's no way we can get into the "Revis Derby" without flirting with salary cap hell.

Signing him would put us back in the era of Shanahan economics, spend a fortune in a year or two for a hamburger today. You mentioned structuring his contract to a 6+-million hit for a year or two. Given that he's looking for around 6 years, 90 mil with 50 guaranteed, that means 78mill would be spread out over the last 4 years with still 38 mil in guarantees.

No thanks.
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PGeorge2


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
Not a huge fan of this. Dont like getting Revis. Its great for Madden, but titles are won with the big uglies. Thats why the Ravens and Niners were in it this year. Elite OL and Elite front 7.

Bad depth at WR

Relying too much on rookies for production on defense. We are in win now mode.


I'm not picking on you bro, well maybe I am because of that hideous avatar. But you don't want to go out and get a top 5 guy at his prosition with out first rounder, yet you also say we're relying on rookies too much? The point of trading 28 for Revis is because he makes a much greater impact than ANY rookie we are drafting at 28.

A rotational DT or a G that may or may not supplant Beadles or take Kupers spot doesn't have near the impact Revis does.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
Not a huge fan of this. Dont like getting Revis. Its great for Madden, but titles are won with the big uglies. Thats why the Ravens and Niners were in it this year. Elite OL and Elite front 7.

Bad depth at WR

Relying too much on rookies for production on defense. We are in win now mode.

This is an odd response. You seem to have attacked this mock willy-nilly.

In one breath you're saying we're in "win now" mode and need veterans. Revis will do more to help us win a Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years than any rookie we can draft or any free agent we could sign. What's the other course, trade our 1st, 2nd and 3rd to get into the top 10 and draft Star Lotulelei? You think a rookie DT from Utah is going to do more to help us win now than a HOF CB in his prime? Trade 3 picks this year for an unproven rookie or trade a pick this year and a pick next year for a proven elite player at a key position. That's an easy decision in my book.

You say titles are won in the trenches. I don't disagree with that. That's why I have us adding 3 players to the front-7: a good free agent who fills a need (Hill) and our first two draft picks are spent on a MLB and a DT in Williams (since Skov is going back to Stanford substitute another rookie MLB for him). I don't think our OL is in as bad of shape as everyone else seems to; we gave up the second-fewest sacks in the league and were in the middle of the pack in rushing offense. We went 13-3 with Manny Ramirez starting at RG for most of the year. Sure I can see the logic in drafting an interior offensive lineman but I liked the DT, MLB, RB and developmental slot WR I have us drafting more.

Bad depth at WR? How? Our WR corps I believe is improved over last year. I like Roby and Vernon more than Willis and Caldwell and our top 3 - Thomas, Decker and Stokley - return. Do you really think we're going to go spend $10m+ on Wallace or Jennings? Vernon is a great pick to be developed as the replacement for Stokley. Given the importance of the slot WR in our offense we have to plan for life after Stokley; draft a rookie with an excellent slot WR skill set now and let him develop. We don't want to have to throw a rookie into the starting lineup at that critical position in 2014 or whenever Stokley hangs up his cleats.

AKRNA wrote:
I seriously doubt that we stand pat on the OL. Also, there's no way we can get into the "Revis Derby" without flirting with salary cap hell.

Signing him would put us back in the era of Shanahan economics, spend a fortune in a year or two for a hamburger today. You mentioned structuring his contract to a 6+-million hit for a year or two. Given that he's looking for around 6 years, 90 mil with 50 guaranteed, that means 78mill would be spread out over the last 4 years with still 38 mil in guarantees.

No thanks.

We have $18m in salary cap room right now. Clady's contract will take up half of that. By releasing DJ (cap no. $8.0825m) and Knowshon (cap no. $3.287) we save over $11m (or about 10% of the cap).

We can restructure Dumervil's contract to save probably another $2-$3m. Kuper ($5.415m), Champ ($10.5m) and Peyton ($20m) are also candidates for some contract restructuring to save money.

I've heard/read more than a few reports that say money will not be an issue in us deciding yea or nay on Revis.

You guys want elite players. You want difference-makers. You want to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years while we have Peyton. That's going to cost money and it's going to require us to do more than draft rookies at back of every round and expect them to come in and put us over the top. The rookies we will be able to draft with one of the last 4 or 5 picks in every round are going to be more Derek Wolfe than they are Von Miller.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

elliot878 wrote:
Oh, and you have Koppen starting over Walton, which I doubt will happen. Even Tom Nalen came out and said recently that the JD Walton playing before the injury was a whole different Walton than his previous two years. He should re-take that job from Koppen - but I'm glad you have Koppen coming back.

Yeah I heard when Nalen said that too. My calculus was actually pretty simple. I'm not sure they know what they're going to get from Walton when he returns, some guys don't recover from injuries as well as others. Walton's progress is something that will never make it outside the walls of Dove Valley so, based on that, I have to assume they will hedge their bets and make sure they have at least one starting-caliber center on the roster. However, the fact that they drafted Blake and signed Koppen before Walton got hurt last year says at least something about how they view Walton long-term.

Donut wrote:
I'd also cut Hanie. IMO Brock will be the better Qb and really you only need 2 on the active roster and have 1 QB on the PS. I dont think there will be much Osweiler can benefit from Hanie to warrant a roster spot.

With the roster rules the way they are there's no penalty for having 3 QBs as the emergency QB doesn't count towards the 45 (essentially 46) man gameday roster. In an offense like ours it's important to make sure the QBs are all on the same page. Thus having 3 QBs who've been on the same team and working with the same playbook is important should QB #1 get hurt.

I dont think Blake really says much about Walton. He had a skillset to play in the interior OL. Going into the yr I thought he was going to backup OG and C spots. Koppen was signed when Blake was put on IR IIRC.

I know the rules of having emergency QB. I was suggesting using his roster spot for someone that could actually help the team and have a 3rd QB on the PS. If Manning goes down Osweiler is playing regardless and odds he gets hurt the same game is really low. And if Peyton goes down you add PS guy to roster and he has been working w/ the team and getting the same reps in practice. This is assuming that Osweiler would actually be the guy you start if Manning goes down not Hanie(which I assume is accurate to say). I also don't think much of Hanie to the point I'd rather have a young UDFA type QB and go from there.
AKRNA wrote:
I seriously doubt that we stand pat on the OL. Also, there's no way we can get into the "Revis Derby" without flirting with salary cap hell.

I'd assume that Elway brings in a bunch of guys that are backups and UDFA ect and then have them compete for spots as backups(which reasons could vary of technique issues and see which ones can develop). But those names are ones that are hard to know since they have so few snaps for fans to really know who are good backups.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
Koppen was signed when Blake was put on IR IIRC.

No. Koppen was signed on 9/11/12 and Walton was put on IR on 10/1/12.
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/transaction.html
Blake was put on IR on 9/18, a week after Koppen was signed. They were clearly unhappy with their depth at C - they missed on Blake, they missed on Davis and they weren't 100% comfortable with Walton and wanted some insurance.

Walton's injury happened on Sunday, September 30 in the week 4 game at home against the Raiders. Koppen had already been with the team and practicing for 3 weeks.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21668731/broncos-j-d-walton-out-dan-koppen-face

Donut wrote:
I know the rules of having emergency QB. I was suggesting using his roster spot for someone that could actually help the team and have a 3rd QB on the PS. If Manning goes down Osweiler is playing regardless and odds he gets hurt the same game is really low. And if Peyton goes down you add PS guy to roster and he has been working w/ the team and getting the same reps in practice. This is assuming that Osweiler would actually be the guy you start if Manning goes down not Hanie(which I assume is accurate to say). I also don't think much of Hanie to the point I'd rather have a young UDFA type QB and go from there.

That's a fair point. I don't see any reason to get rid of a cheap 3rd string QB who knows the offense. I don't think one extra player who'd be a roster bubble player anyway and would likely a gameday inactive for most if not all of the season makes any measure of difference. So we will just have to agree to disagree.
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kansas bob


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really thin we can get Revis that cheap? If I were them I wouldn't give him away that cheap? Also, can we aford two expensive CB's?
If we can get aford and get him, that would be awesome!
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansas bob wrote:
Do you really thin we can get Revis that cheap? If I were them I wouldn't give him away that cheap? Also, can we aford two expensive CB's?
If we can get aford and get him, that would be awesome!


The thing is, we can structure Revis' deal so that his cap hit isn't that much in the beginning, and then when Champ ages, and retires or whatever, we take a higher cap hit.

It's possible.
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copeland


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope the Broncos don't make the trade for Revis.
He is elite, yes, but damaged, and carries more baggage than I would take on. It's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean they won't pull the triger.
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roar2014


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: AAA's Mock Offseason v1.0 Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Reggie Nelson#1 wrote:
#1 Knowshon Moreno salary is only $1.7 million. I don't see a need to cut him.

#2 Shayne Skov is returning to Stanford

That sucks about Skov returning to Stanford. After Minter, who can only get at #28 (if he lasts that far) Skov is one of my favorite mid-round MLB prospects. And I did not hear that he was returning so thanks for the heads up.

Call it a gut feeling but I don't think the staff trusts Moreno. He started when McGahee got hurt because he was the only back left on the roster that can run, catch and block. Again, we could very well keep him but I think that if an option like Taylor is available I think Knowshon ends up the odd man out. True $1.7m is not a big cap number but it is a savings that can be used, in this mock at least, to clear room for guys rookies, free agents and Revis.

champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
I'd be sad to see Carter go if we didn't get Revis in this situation.

BroncsDominate wrote:
Also, if we do make a trade for Revis, I think they will keep Carter instead of bring in a FA like Butler.

My source in Dove Valley told me that opinions are mixed on Tony Carter. Some coaches think he plays lazy and doesn't have enough between the ears. In fact, one coach wishes they would have kept Florence instead of Carter. Again this doesn't mean he's going to go but I think it's a very real possibility.

BroncsDominate wrote:
One other thing I havent seen anyone discuss on their mocks (I dont think so anyway), is that the Denver Post has said that we might look at moving Franklin inside to play G. If this happens, what will be the team's strategy to replace him at Tackle? Do you think we might bring in a FA, use second round draft pick, or insert Chris Clark? Maybe a combination of the three?

I think they're playing with the idea only in the event that an OT they really like who can start right away falls to either to #28 or #58. As far as the OL goes I wouldn't be surprise to see a new starter brought in, either at OG or RT, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see us stick with the same starting lineup we had the last two years.


One of my favorite linebackers in this draft is Arthur Brown out of Kansas State. He is a little under sized but is always around the ball and could possibly fall to a 2nd round spot or maybe a third.

He plays fast and hits hard fitting our linebacker mentality.

Here is some more on him:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/arthur-brown?id=2539245
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-T1T3YuyNY
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PackAtBroncos07


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: AAA's Mock Offseason v1.0 Reply with quote

roar2014 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Reggie Nelson#1 wrote:
#1 Knowshon Moreno salary is only $1.7 million. I don't see a need to cut him.

#2 Shayne Skov is returning to Stanford

That sucks about Skov returning to Stanford. After Minter, who can only get at #28 (if he lasts that far) Skov is one of my favorite mid-round MLB prospects. And I did not hear that he was returning so thanks for the heads up.

Call it a gut feeling but I don't think the staff trusts Moreno. He started when McGahee got hurt because he was the only back left on the roster that can run, catch and block. Again, we could very well keep him but I think that if an option like Taylor is available I think Knowshon ends up the odd man out. True $1.7m is not a big cap number but it is a savings that can be used, in this mock at least, to clear room for guys rookies, free agents and Revis.

champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
I'd be sad to see Carter go if we didn't get Revis in this situation.

BroncsDominate wrote:
Also, if we do make a trade for Revis, I think they will keep Carter instead of bring in a FA like Butler.

My source in Dove Valley told me that opinions are mixed on Tony Carter. Some coaches think he plays lazy and doesn't have enough between the ears. In fact, one coach wishes they would have kept Florence instead of Carter. Again this doesn't mean he's going to go but I think it's a very real possibility.

BroncsDominate wrote:
One other thing I havent seen anyone discuss on their mocks (I dont think so anyway), is that the Denver Post has said that we might look at moving Franklin inside to play G. If this happens, what will be the team's strategy to replace him at Tackle? Do you think we might bring in a FA, use second round draft pick, or insert Chris Clark? Maybe a combination of the three?

I think they're playing with the idea only in the event that an OT they really like who can start right away falls to either to #28 or #58. As far as the OL goes I wouldn't be surprise to see a new starter brought in, either at OG or RT, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see us stick with the same starting lineup we had the last two years.


One of my favorite linebackers in this draft is Arthur Brown out of Kansas State. He is a little under sized but is always around the ball and could possibly fall to a 2nd round spot or maybe a third.

He plays fast and hits hard fitting our linebacker mentality.

Here is some more on him:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/arthur-brown?id=2539245
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-T1T3YuyNY


I like him but we've seen youth kill us in important moments already. Can we really trust him in the playoffs? Nick Barnett was mentioned by someone, I kind of like that signing if he's got something left in the tank, or Brian Urlacher.

AAA, I'd prefer if we kept Moreno actually. I think he deserves his (last?) year, "deserves" being used loosely. He's such a good receiver out of the backfield, so good in space, and he's getting better between the tackles I think he'd be better for this offense and for Manning then McGahee. I don't know what the cap hit for McGahee would be but I'd almost prefer cutting McGahee and draft a guy like Stephan Taylor that you mentioned to groom in the later rounds.
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letting Carter go to sign Butler? No thanks.

Moreno has a low cap number with a year left on his deal. He will probably end up moving on but DEFINITELY not before his contract is up. He earned a roster spot for training camp this season with his maturity and hard work after he was benched. For someone who was projected to be a cancer in the locker room, he sure didn't act like one when he was demoted.

If any running back has a chance to be cut, it is more likely to be McGahee. (I only see this happening if we go after someone like Steven Jackson and he comes relatively cheap)

Finally, we are not trading for Revis. We cant afford to give that guy 15 plus million per year. Enuff said.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

copeland wrote:
I hope the Broncos don't make the trade for Revis.
He is elite, yes, but damaged, and carries more baggage than I would take on. It's just my opinion, but that doesn't mean they won't pull the triger.


Really no baggage besides him fighting each offseason to be paid what he's worth. Kind of understandable this time of year when you see guys getting cut. One injury changes everything, so when you're as good as Revis, it's important to get that big contract.

We belly ache, but we'd all probably do the same if we were in his position, in fact, our agents would advise us to, as Revis's has done. That guaranteed contract is the only way to guarantee your families financial future. Wait a year, maybe you suffer that Al Wilson injury?... Never know.
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