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lilcrazycat1


Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 930
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
101Raider wrote:
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in since it's a Salary Cap/Free Agent/Draft question. MODS if this would be better suited in one of the other threads I would not be offended at all to have it closed and moved.

So... would the Raiders be better off short/long term if we were to

1. Cut Carson Palmer saving a potential 6 million (assuming that number is accurate)

2. Use the saved cap space to sign a legit Defensive End- Michael Johnson I'm looking at you... or Michael Bennett

3. Draft Geno Smith @ #3



Now I'm just spit balling here, but this is my thought process. I like Carson, I think he played better than most give him credit for. However, the guy is obviously in the twilight of his career. Looking towards the future must be a priority.

For this hypothetical, I'm assuming that a draft day trade does not materialize and I'm most def playing devils advocate here. My number one priority this offseason is to get a pass rusher. With cap money saved we could grab what in my opinion is our most pressing need, pass rusher.

In the draft, I think there's a large gap between Jones, Moore and Werner from the next quality pass rusher. But those three all have questions which make it difficult to draft in the top 5. In a nutshell: Jones obviously medical, Moore his explosion and Werner his motor and quality of competition. Other top choices involve a "franchise" LT when we have one-so basically improving our RT tackle position (so begins the argument of positional worth) and Star who's devalued in my opinion by this being the best DT class in mind EVER.

Let me preface the Geno thing with Geno falls out of my top 5 but in my top 10 in my "big board." However, Geno is interesting. I really don't get all of the hate he's receiving. His completion percentage is incredible and I get all the talk about his offense centered around the screen game, but come on a percentage in the 70s obviously displays good accuracy and intelligence. I've heard he doesn't throw the deep ball, but I'm not sure where that's coming from. The Smith I've seen he's been show great arm strength and accuracy throwing deep. He's athletic (obviously not RGIII or Kaepernick) but it's still there and he seems to have good pocket awareness (though this declined abit as his season progressed). Best of all, he's intelligent with the football. I'd take a 6 int season any day of the week. If he's franchise caliber in McKenzie's mind then I'm good, assuming we have a plan for DE.

SO...


Carson Palmer and Jones/Moore/Werner
or
Geno Smith and Michael Johnson/Bennett


good calls....on the possibility of Geno, I say we use that as our inner negotiating rsponse - if CP don't sign for much less we cut him (trade) and bring Geno in for an equal shoot-out with tP


you don't draft a qb in top 3 to have an "equal shoot out" with a back up qb.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

lilcrazycat1 wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
101Raider wrote:
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in since it's a Salary Cap/Free Agent/Draft question. MODS if this would be better suited in one of the other threads I would not be offended at all to have it closed and moved.

So... would the Raiders be better off short/long term if we were to

1. Cut Carson Palmer saving a potential 6 million (assuming that number is accurate)

2. Use the saved cap space to sign a legit Defensive End- Michael Johnson I'm looking at you... or Michael Bennett

3. Draft Geno Smith @ #3



Now I'm just spit balling here, but this is my thought process. I like Carson, I think he played better than most give him credit for. However, the guy is obviously in the twilight of his career. Looking towards the future must be a priority.

For this hypothetical, I'm assuming that a draft day trade does not materialize and I'm most def playing devils advocate here. My number one priority this offseason is to get a pass rusher. With cap money saved we could grab what in my opinion is our most pressing need, pass rusher.

In the draft, I think there's a large gap between Jones, Moore and Werner from the next quality pass rusher. But those three all have questions which make it difficult to draft in the top 5. In a nutshell: Jones obviously medical, Moore his explosion and Werner his motor and quality of competition. Other top choices involve a "franchise" LT when we have one-so basically improving our RT tackle position (so begins the argument of positional worth) and Star who's devalued in my opinion by this being the best DT class in mind EVER.

Let me preface the Geno thing with Geno falls out of my top 5 but in my top 10 in my "big board." However, Geno is interesting. I really don't get all of the hate he's receiving. His completion percentage is incredible and I get all the talk about his offense centered around the screen game, but come on a percentage in the 70s obviously displays good accuracy and intelligence. I've heard he doesn't throw the deep ball, but I'm not sure where that's coming from. The Smith I've seen he's been show great arm strength and accuracy throwing deep. He's athletic (obviously not RGIII or Kaepernick) but it's still there and he seems to have good pocket awareness (though this declined abit as his season progressed). Best of all, he's intelligent with the football. I'd take a 6 int season any day of the week. If he's franchise caliber in McKenzie's mind then I'm good, assuming we have a plan for DE.

SO...


Carson Palmer and Jones/Moore/Werner
or
Geno Smith and Michael Johnson/Bennett


good calls....on the possibility of Geno, I say we use that as our inner negotiating rsponse - if CP don't sign for much less we cut him (trade) and bring Geno in for an equal shoot-out with tP


you don't draft a qb in top 3 to have an "equal shoot out" with a back up qb.


if we drafted Geno, I'd assume we loose CP, but still wouldn't give Geno the keys straight off, TP deserves his crack
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

lilcrazycat1 wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
101Raider wrote:
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in since it's a Salary Cap/Free Agent/Draft question. MODS if this would be better suited in one of the other threads I would not be offended at all to have it closed and moved.

So... would the Raiders be better off short/long term if we were to

1. Cut Carson Palmer saving a potential 6 million (assuming that number is accurate)

2. Use the saved cap space to sign a legit Defensive End- Michael Johnson I'm looking at you... or Michael Bennett

3. Draft Geno Smith @ #3



Now I'm just spit balling here, but this is my thought process. I like Carson, I think he played better than most give him credit for. However, the guy is obviously in the twilight of his career. Looking towards the future must be a priority.

For this hypothetical, I'm assuming that a draft day trade does not materialize and I'm most def playing devils advocate here. My number one priority this offseason is to get a pass rusher. With cap money saved we could grab what in my opinion is our most pressing need, pass rusher.

In the draft, I think there's a large gap between Jones, Moore and Werner from the next quality pass rusher. But those three all have questions which make it difficult to draft in the top 5. In a nutshell: Jones obviously medical, Moore his explosion and Werner his motor and quality of competition. Other top choices involve a "franchise" LT when we have one-so basically improving our RT tackle position (so begins the argument of positional worth) and Star who's devalued in my opinion by this being the best DT class in mind EVER.

Let me preface the Geno thing with Geno falls out of my top 5 but in my top 10 in my "big board." However, Geno is interesting. I really don't get all of the hate he's receiving. His completion percentage is incredible and I get all the talk about his offense centered around the screen game, but come on a percentage in the 70s obviously displays good accuracy and intelligence. I've heard he doesn't throw the deep ball, but I'm not sure where that's coming from. The Smith I've seen he's been show great arm strength and accuracy throwing deep. He's athletic (obviously not RGIII or Kaepernick) but it's still there and he seems to have good pocket awareness (though this declined abit as his season progressed). Best of all, he's intelligent with the football. I'd take a 6 int season any day of the week. If he's franchise caliber in McKenzie's mind then I'm good, assuming we have a plan for DE.

SO...


Carson Palmer and Jones/Moore/Werner
or
Geno Smith and Michael Johnson/Bennett


good calls....on the possibility of Geno, I say we use that as our inner negotiating rsponse - if CP don't sign for much less we cut him (trade) and bring Geno in for an equal shoot-out with tP


you don't draft a qb in top 3 to have an "equal shoot out" with a back up qb.


Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 34097
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


You'd trade #3 overall for Kirk Cousins? We're done discussing this.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


You'd trade #3 overall for Kirk Cousins? We're done discussing this.
Lol. He's better than Geno Torreta....err Smith!
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


That is just dumb and the issue with fans now. If a rookie QB isn't RGIII, Luck, Wilson he's not good now? Is that where we are at?

I'd gladly take Tannehill as my starter and I think Geno can bring a lot of what he did to Miami.

Also, fans and the media need to settle down on crowning these young QBs now days. Once the tape gets out there on them, defenses adjust, etc. they slow down (see Cam Newton).

I remember Flacco and Ryan being crowned as rookies and that cooled. In fact many STILL don't by Flacco.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


You'd trade #3 overall for Kirk Cousins? We're done discussing this.
Lol. He's better than Geno Torreta....err Smith!


Says who? You? Geno was a better college player by a large margin. Has a better arm, better accuracy and touch on his ball.

Let me guess, because Cousins played in Washington's QB friendly offense and the media hyped him up in relief duty, you bought in?

This time last year, the scouts were sour on Cousins and he dropped to the 3rd round.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

This years QB class is very underwhelming. They all still might have a chance to pan out, but from what they showed in college, I think only Geno Smith deserves to be drafted in the 1st round. I think almost all the teams will opt to roll the dice for a signal caller after day 1.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


You'd trade #3 overall for Kirk Cousins? We're done discussing this.
Lol. He's better than Geno Torreta....err Smith!


Says who? You? Geno was a better college player by a large margin. Has a better arm, better accuracy and touch on his ball.

Let me guess, because Cousins played in Washington's QB friendly offense and the media hyped him up in relief duty, you bought in?

This time last year, the scouts were sour on Cousins and he dropped to the 3rd round.
Who cares who the better college player was! What I care about is who can learn a pro offense better and perform.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


That is just dumb and the issue with fans now. If a rookie QB isn't RGIII, Luck, Wilson he's not good now? Is that where we are at?

I'd gladly take Tannehill as my starter and I think Geno can bring a lot of what he did to Miami.

Also, fans and the media need to settle down on crowning these young QBs now days. Once the tape gets out there on them, defenses adjust, etc. they slow down (see Cam Newton).

I remember Flacco and Ryan being crowned as rookies and that cooled. In fact many STILL don't by Flacco.
My point is Geno's grade aint even close to what RG3 or Lucks was it is however similar to Tannehill's so if you want to draft Geno take him in the middle of the round not at #3.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


That is just dumb and the issue with fans now. If a rookie QB isn't RGIII, Luck, Wilson he's not good now? Is that where we are at?

I'd gladly take Tannehill as my starter and I think Geno can bring a lot of what he did to Miami.

Also, fans and the media need to settle down on crowning these young QBs now days. Once the tape gets out there on them, defenses adjust, etc. they slow down (see Cam Newton).

I remember Flacco and Ryan being crowned as rookies and that cooled. In fact many STILL don't by Flacco.
Lmao! They both have consistantly taken there teams to the playoffs and one just won the SuperBowl. Rolling Eyes
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Honestly, true. You draft a QB at #3 to take over asap. You draft a QB in the 3rd round to have an equal crack, ala Wilson and Flynn in Seattle.


EJ Manuel it is. Wink

I think Geno would throw circles around Pryor if he was drafted by us. But I also think Pryor would run circles around him. So all the Pryor people would stay Pryor people even if Geno scrambled semi well. It really doesn't matter though because I highly doubt we draft Geno. I wouldn't complain if we did, however.
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


You'd trade #3 overall for Kirk Cousins? We're done discussing this.
Lol. He's better than Geno Torreta....err Smith!


Says who? You? Geno was a better college player by a large margin. Has a better arm, better accuracy and touch on his ball.

Let me guess, because Cousins played in Washington's QB friendly offense and the media hyped him up in relief duty, you bought in?

This time last year, the scouts were sour on Cousins and he dropped to the 3rd round.
Who cares who the better college player was! What I care about is who can learn a pro offense better and perform.



So you are judging Geno off what then as he's not taken a snap in the NFL. You're daft enough to believe he can't learn a pro offense and perform? Am I catching on to your nonsense statement?
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: OffSeason Hypothetical Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
I would complain because its obvious none of the QBs in this class come close to RG3 or Luck or even Wilson to take Geno just for the sake of taking a QB would be dumb. Id rather give our #1 to Shanahan for Cousins other than that we have seen what our offense can be with the right scheme, restructure Palmer, mix in a little more Pryor this year especially in the redzone solidify the OL. Just because the offense regressed under Knapp doesnt mean we cant bounce back this season. Defense IMO needs more players.


That is just dumb and the issue with fans now. If a rookie QB isn't RGIII, Luck, Wilson he's not good now? Is that where we are at?

I'd gladly take Tannehill as my starter and I think Geno can bring a lot of what he did to Miami.

Also, fans and the media need to settle down on crowning these young QBs now days. Once the tape gets out there on them, defenses adjust, etc. they slow down (see Cam Newton).

I remember Flacco and Ryan being crowned as rookies and that cooled. In fact many STILL don't by Flacco.
My point is Geno's grade aint even close to what RG3 or Lucks was it is however similar to Tannehill's so if you want to draft Geno take him in the middle of the round not at #3.


Your point is ignorant. Luck was seen as the best prospect since Manning. RGIII is right behind him. Hardly any QB in any class compare to them.

Also, use your brain. With RGIII and Luck in that class, it pushed Tannehill down. You can't say say 'take Geno in the middle of the round not at #3' because the situations don't compare. THINK just a little.

Bottom line. If you think Geno Smith is a franchise QB, you take him. Most important player on the field. He might not be Luck, but he might be Matt Ryan and I would be fine with that. Or do you want the Raiders to suck another decade so they can take the next 'once in a generation' QB prospect.
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