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48.9 million to spend in free agency is a mirage.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: 48.9 million to spend in free agency is a mirage. Reply with quote

The 48.9 million includes 14.3 million in carryover. If we spent the whole 48.9 million we would be 14.3 million over the cap. I'd bet we don't. That means we actually have 35.6 million to spend.

The N.F.L. Teams have 350.7 million to spend but that includes 200.3 million in carryover money. Very few will spend their carryover money.

Another thing is I doubt the Browns spend 35.6 million in free agency. Let's say the Browns spend to 90% of the cap money. That means we spend about 12 million less than the 35.6 million. Meaning we spend about 23.6 million.

Rookies will cost about 4 million. That leaves about 19.6 million to spend.

Say we extend Mack's contract. His cap figure is around 4 million right now. If we extend him for 8 million a year his cap figure goes up 4 million leaving 15.6 million to spend.

Now say Ward gets extended. His cap figure is around 1 million this year. If we pay him 6 million a year that takes another 5 million leaving us with 10.6 million to spend.

10.6 million is not a lot.

Now the Brown's could spend a few million more and be okay but I think they spend around 90% of availible cap money as outlined above.

These cap figures come from John Clayton.

I posted this also in the sticky above dealing with the cap figures bulldog posted. Seems not many read that though.

This sobered me up and the next offseason I do will take this into account. Probably why Haslim said we won't spend big.
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brownsfan0623


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post! I didn't know that some of that cap space was carry over. I wonder where that puts us with the rest of the league with cap space? But IMHO whatever they spend is gonna have to be on some kind of LB depth and maybe a half way decent #2 CB IMHO.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownsfan0623 wrote:
Good post! I didn't know that some of that cap space was carry over. I wonder where that puts us with the rest of the league with cap space? But IMHO whatever they spend is gonna have to be on some kind of LB depth and maybe a half way decent #2 CB IMHO.


Cinci has 55.1 million of which 8.5 million is carryover. Mike Brown won't spend the carryover. Leaves him 46.6 million. He probably spends about 90% of cap that takes off another 12 million leaving him 34.6 million. He has all his draft picks plus Oakland's second rounder. Rookies will cost him about 5.5 million leaving him about 29.1 million. Than if he resigns Michael Johnson and Andre Smith that takes about another 10 million leaving him with about 19.1 million to spend.

Steelers are in cap heck 10.8 million over so they won't be much of a factor. They still have to pay their rookies about 5 million.

Ravens only have 1.2 million carryover but they have 15.7 million in cap space. Flacco will eat most of that up. Rookies will cost them around 5 million.

Indy seems like the team with the most to spend on other teams free agents. They have 3.5 million carryover and a total of 46 million to spend. They won't spend the 3.5 million carryover either leaving them 42.5 million.
They probably will not resign Freeney so none of their free agents will get a big contract. If they spend 90% of the total cap money take another 12 million off that leaves them 30.5 million to spend. Rookies take 5 million leaving them 25.5 million to spend.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you do an extension, doesn't that contract extension count against the cap when the current contract expires since its an extension? If so.....you can't incur the cost until the current contract is expired. I'm in an aerospace union, and the only thing we could get on our extension of the contract is a signing bonus. The extension or terms of contract extends when the contract terminates. We got other incentives, but they only go into effect when the contract terminates. If you want to incur the costs this year, you have Resign the player to a "new" contract, not extend. Which then you would have to incur other charges from the previous contract. I'm on the board for union contracts and work with lawyers all the time with this type of stuff now. I've learned alot in the last 5 years.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to ask a question.....I pressed wrong button on phone. Haha

So are you saying that the Browns will take on the signing bonuses only this year for Ward and Mack? If so cattleman.....I understand where you're getting at, but if not....then we will have roughly $20 mil to spend after all things done.
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgpound1816 wrote:
When you do an extension, doesn't that contract extension count against the cap when the current contract expires since its an extension? If so.....you can't incur the cost until the current contract is expired. I'm in an aerospace union, and the only thing we could get on our extension of the contract is a signing bonus. The extension or terms of contract extends when the contract terminates. We got other incentives, but they only go into effect when the contract terminates. If you want to incur the costs this year, you have Resign the player to a "new" contract, not extend. Which then you would have to incur other charges from the previous contract. I'm on the board for union contracts and work with lawyers all the time with this type of stuff now. I've learned alot in the last 5 years.



Really, with these contracts they seem to be able to manipulate them however they want...
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
dawgpound1816 wrote:
When you do an extension, doesn't that contract extension count against the cap when the current contract expires since its an extension? If so.....you can't incur the cost until the current contract is expired. I'm in an aerospace union, and the only thing we could get on our extension of the contract is a signing bonus. The extension or terms of contract extends when the contract terminates. We got other incentives, but they only go into effect when the contract terminates. If you want to incur the costs this year, you have Resign the player to a "new" contract, not extend. Which then you would have to incur other charges from the previous contract. I'm on the board for union contracts and work with lawyers all the time with this type of stuff now. I've learned alot in the last 5 years.



Really, with these contracts they seem to be able to manipulate them however they want...


In any contract you can manipulate money, but only if it doesn't change the dynamics of the base contract. Which is their salary. So you can incur the bonus in an extension, but not the salary until the last contract is expired. That's how it makes it an even playing field for both parties, and allows teams to manipulate the cap.....or spend money early to allow money to be there later. Kinda like investing in a sense.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There can be clauses in a contract that can allow windows to be open, but it's either to benefit a team to not incur costs more than guarantees or incentives for players.....ala workout bonuses and so forth. All in all....you can't manipulate a base contract unless there's a signed clause or window (option) by the player. Being that Mack & Ward are still on their rookie contracts....not many windows. Just Resign or Extension.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgpound1816 wrote:
I meant to ask a question.....I pressed wrong button on phone. Haha

So are you saying that the Browns will take on the signing bonuses only this year for Ward and Mack? If so cattleman.....I understand where you're getting at, but if not....then we will have roughly $20 mil to spend after all things done.


Good question. Say we extend Ward 4 years at 24 million this year with a 10 million signing bonus. We leave his salary this year alone at a little over 1 million. Just for this example we will say his salary is 1 million this year. He gets the signing bonus of 10 million this year. The contract length with the extension is 5 years. So the signing bonus counts 2 million against the cap each year. His cap this year would be 1 million salary plus 2 million signing bonus for a total of three million adding 3 more million we could spend this year.
The following 4 years you would owe him 14 million dollars yet. If you paid him the same salary each year his salary would be 14 million divided by 4 years which comes out to 3.5 million a year. Add in the 2 million cap cost and your cap hit is 5.5 milion the last 4 years of his contract.

Now there are different ways you can do a contract to make the cap hit different each year. You could give him a 10 million signing bonus and a 4 million dollar increase in his salary this year. His cap hit this year would than be 5 million salary plus 2 million pro rated bonus for a total cap hit of 7 million. Than the following years his salary would be 2.5 million and 2 million bonus hit for a total cap hit of 4.5 million.

So depending how you extend a players contract the cap hit could be different each year.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgpound1816 wrote:
There can be clauses in a contract that can allow windows to be open, but it's either to benefit a team to not incur costs more than guarantees or incentives for players.....ala workout bonuses and so forth. All in all....you can't manipulate a base contract unless there's a signed clause or window (option) by the player. Being that Mack & Ward are still on their rookie contracts....not many windows. Just Resign or Extension.


I think you can give players a raise after three years of their rookie contract now.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand using the extension as a way to manipulate the bonus.....our union just incurred that ourselves. To be quite frank....that's the best thing for any team/company to do. It's bad when you see Restructure or Resign before contract is complete. That means you can change anything b/c it's open, but the cost of that contract just got incurred. That's where players become very frustrated & happy at the same time.

My company only wanted to extend our contract and abide by the terms that they wanted set. We the people wanted to Resign (allow contract to expire) so we could the max deal or make it more competitive......kinda like FA. Weird. Haha.

Thanks for the knowledge, and for bringing up a great topic. I love talking contracts.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cattleman78 wrote:
dawgpound1816 wrote:
There can be clauses in a contract that can allow windows to be open, but it's either to benefit a team to not incur costs more than guarantees or incentives for players.....ala workout bonuses and so forth. All in all....you can't manipulate a base contract unless there's a signed clause or window (option) by the player. Being that Mack & Ward are still on their rookie contracts....not many windows. Just Resign or Extension.


I think you can give players a raise after three years of their rookie contract now.


Yes....they did do that so players that have exceeded expectations can be given a fair wage. There's going to be rules to that, and that may very well be for the rookies now due to the fact the initial contracts are not as big as previous years. They very well made this a 2 tier pay scale as they should've long ago.

We'll have to look into that though. It may very well be for the rookies drafted after the CBA since other players as Ward & Mack have made good (better) money on their initial contracts.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
dawgpound1816 wrote:
When you do an extension, doesn't that contract extension count against the cap when the current contract expires since its an extension? If so.....you can't incur the cost until the current contract is expired. I'm in an aerospace union, and the only thing we could get on our extension of the contract is a signing bonus. The extension or terms of contract extends when the contract terminates. We got other incentives, but they only go into effect when the contract terminates. If you want to incur the costs this year, you have Resign the player to a "new" contract, not extend. Which then you would have to incur other charges from the previous contract. I'm on the board for union contracts and work with lawyers all the time with this type of stuff now. I've learned alot in the last 5 years.



Really, with these contracts they seem to be able to manipulate them however they want...


Yeah all contracts are different.

I'll give a couple of examples according to Spotrac

Chris Gocong
Signing bonus 1.25 million.
workout bonus 2012 $200,00 2013 and 14 $ 100,000
Yearly salary 2012 4.5 million 2013 4.45 million, 20144.7 million.
Yearly cap hit 2012 4.8 2013 4.9 2014 5.1.

Gocongs contract is an example with a very low signing bonus. You could cut him and not have much dead money count against the cap.

D.Q. Jackson's contract is different
Signing bonus 7 million
Salaries 2012 3.4 million. 2013 3.6 million l2014 2.6 million, 2015 6.4 million and 2016 7.0 million.
Workout bonus 2012-2014 $100,000 2015-2016 $300,000 ea. year
Roster bonus 2013 1 million 2014 4 million 2015 and 2016 $500,000
Cap hit each year 2012 6.2 million 2013 6.4 million, 2014 8.1 million, 2015 8.6 million and 2016 9.2 million.
Jackson's contract is an example of a back loaded deal. Most of these never see their completion. With a 4 million roster bonus due next year Jackson most likely takes a cut or gets cut.

One other contract I'll comment on.
is Joe Haden's.
His cap hit is 9.2 million this year and 9.0 million next year. If he gets a contract paying 11 million a year the increased cap hit would only be 2 million. Putting this out there so people don't worry about having enough money to resign him.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main point is we will not spend anywhere near the 48.9 million. We will spend a lot but most likely a lot goes to Mack and Ward. We still have enough to make a splash. My best guess is we will spend 10-15 million depending on how the extensions are worded. We also don't know what the market is. A guy like Sean Smith that wants 8-10 million a year probably won't get it here.
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dawgpound1816


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cattleman78 wrote:
My main point is we will not spend anywhere near the 48.9 million. We will spend a lot but most likely a lot goes to Mack and Ward. We still have enough to make a splash. My best guess is we will spend 10-15 million depending on how the extensions are worded. We also don't know what the market is. A guy like Sean Smith that wants 8-10 million a year probably won't get it here.


Totally agree brother. We'll make a splash, but not a cannonball. Haha.
It all depends upon what the regime wants now or later. Any contract(like you posted as examples) can be made differently. As for Rookie contracts and the ways it was, to now are going to be totally different animals.

As a result.....just look at the RG3 deal as a whole period. From the moves the Redskins made (trade, FA signings & restructures). The future they gave away and the ceiling of RG3s contract as a rookie gave them opportunity to manipulate contracts crazy good this past year.

They easily may have set up the contracts for their FA signings to be voided or handled by the time RG3 can max out a deal.

It's so crazy how this new CBA was put in place just in time for the most crazy offseason in NFL History. If it was in years past, or the old CBA.....that deal doesn't blow up that big. The value of RG3 doesn't blow up that much due to previous contracts that early. Bringing down the value of the #1 overall pick becoming half the price contract wise and the 3 year guaranteed window. Crazy. 1st rd picks are gold I tell ya. Gold!!!
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