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Skins looking to sign Orakpo long-term
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Slateman


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 6226
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Hali is nope one dimensional than Orakpo.


If we accept this assertion, then wouldn't it stand that Hali's contract would be a comparable one for Orakpo if he's going to be entering free agency next year?

Quote:
I highly doubt Orakpo takes chump change going in to a contract year. He would be beyond foolish to do that.


No one said chump change. Below market value is still very good money.

Quote:
Wait, make Orakpo prove he's worth the money. If he is, we can tag him. If not, let him walk.


Franchise tag this year looks to be around $9.5M. That's somewhat expensive for one player (around 8% of the total cap value). Depending on what happens with guys like Kruger, it could go up.

So, what if he proves he's worth the money? Now instead of getting him at a Hali deal, you're looking at a possible Jared Allen or Julius Peppers deal.

Alternatively, you let him walk ... and then what? Who replaces him? Rob Jackson? I'm not even sure he's going to be here this year, much less next.

Quote:
Right now, Orakpo's salary is very cap friendly. Any new deal would end up increasing it.


Why? There are plenty of extensions that give the team a friendly cap number in the first year.


Except Hali has had more production the last two years and has stayed on the field.

Below market value is chump change. Any deal he signs will affect his overall cap numbers. Any deal he signs would have to be more money than he is making now. Therefore, any deal he signs would increase his cap hit this year and next year.

I think Rob Jackson will be back. I think they Skins would be foolish to let him walk. Now, he may want to walk, but it won't be about money. It'll be about starting time. As for replacing Orakpo, it can be done. There are always free agents and there are always linebackers in the draft available.

If Orakpo were to perform up to Peppers or Allen level, I'd be more than happy to sign him to one of those deals. The last time either one of them had as poor a season as Orakpo's best season was 2010 for Peppers and 2006 for Allen. They were both elite at Orakpo's age and experience. Orakpo is not. He's a good pass rusher. Right now, he has yet to prove he's as good as Hali, so I see no reason to throw money at him.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
Woz wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Hali is nope one dimensional than Orakpo.


If we accept this assertion, then wouldn't it stand that Hali's contract would be a comparable one for Orakpo if he's going to be entering free agency next year?

Quote:
I highly doubt Orakpo takes chump change going in to a contract year. He would be beyond foolish to do that.


No one said chump change. Below market value is still very good money.

Quote:
Wait, make Orakpo prove he's worth the money. If he is, we can tag him. If not, let him walk.


Franchise tag this year looks to be around $9.5M. That's somewhat expensive for one player (around 8% of the total cap value). Depending on what happens with guys like Kruger, it could go up.

So, what if he proves he's worth the money? Now instead of getting him at a Hali deal, you're looking at a possible Jared Allen or Julius Peppers deal.

Alternatively, you let him walk ... and then what? Who replaces him? Rob Jackson? I'm not even sure he's going to be here this year, much less next.

Quote:
Right now, Orakpo's salary is very cap friendly. Any new deal would end up increasing it.


Why? There are plenty of extensions that give the team a friendly cap number in the first year.


Except Hali has had more production the last two years and has stayed on the field.

Below market value is chump change. Any deal he signs will affect his overall cap numbers. Any deal he signs would have to be more money than he is making now. Therefore, any deal he signs would increase his cap hit this year and next year.

I think Rob Jackson will be back. I think they Skins would be foolish to let him walk. Now, he may want to walk, but it won't be about money. It'll be about starting time. As for replacing Orakpo, it can be done. There are always free agents and there are always linebackers in the draft available.

If Orakpo were to perform up to Peppers or Allen level, I'd be more than happy to sign him to one of those deals. The last time either one of them had as poor a season as Orakpo's best season was 2010 for Peppers and 2006 for Allen. They were both elite at Orakpo's age and experience. Orakpo is not. He's a good pass rusher. Right now, he has yet to prove he's as good as Hali, so I see no reason to throw money at him.
Woz and Footy are right. Paying Orakpo similar to what Hali received is good for both sides and we would lock him up before he had a huge year again.

rob Jackson might not be back because of money. He's a reserve here, and will remain a reserve here. We can't afford to pay reserves like starters so if he gets an opportunity to start and gets more $, he won't be back. It's a shame, but that's how the business works now, this isn't the 80s. I want Rob back as well, but I don't think we are going to be able to afford what other teams will offer him because we are currently over the salary cap.

Yeah there are always players in the draft who have talent but the redskins haven't had a young pass rusher as good as Orakpo since the 80s when they had Manley and Mann. To give that up would be beyond foolish!
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Woz wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Hali is nope one dimensional than Orakpo.


If we accept this assertion, then wouldn't it stand that Hali's contract would be a comparable one for Orakpo if he's going to be entering free agency next year?

Quote:
I highly doubt Orakpo takes chump change going in to a contract year. He would be beyond foolish to do that.


No one said chump change. Below market value is still very good money.

Quote:
Wait, make Orakpo prove he's worth the money. If he is, we can tag him. If not, let him walk.


Franchise tag this year looks to be around $9.5M. That's somewhat expensive for one player (around 8% of the total cap value). Depending on what happens with guys like Kruger, it could go up.

So, what if he proves he's worth the money? Now instead of getting him at a Hali deal, you're looking at a possible Jared Allen or Julius Peppers deal.

Alternatively, you let him walk ... and then what? Who replaces him? Rob Jackson? I'm not even sure he's going to be here this year, much less next.

Quote:
Right now, Orakpo's salary is very cap friendly. Any new deal would end up increasing it.


Why? There are plenty of extensions that give the team a friendly cap number in the first year.


Except Hali has had more production the last two years and has stayed on the field.

Below market value is chump change. Any deal he signs will affect his overall cap numbers. Any deal he signs would have to be more money than he is making now. Therefore, any deal he signs would increase his cap hit this year and next year.

I think Rob Jackson will be back. I think they Skins would be foolish to let him walk. Now, he may want to walk, but it won't be about money. It'll be about starting time. As for replacing Orakpo, it can be done. There are always free agents and there are always linebackers in the draft available.

If Orakpo were to perform up to Peppers or Allen level, I'd be more than happy to sign him to one of those deals. The last time either one of them had as poor a season as Orakpo's best season was 2010 for Peppers and 2006 for Allen. They were both elite at Orakpo's age and experience. Orakpo is not. He's a good pass rusher. Right now, he has yet to prove he's as good as Hali, so I see no reason to throw money at him.
Woz and Footy are right. Paying Orakpo similar to what Hali received is good for both sides and we would lock him up before he had a huge year again.

rob Jackson might not be back because of money. He's a reserve here, and will remain a reserve here. We can't afford to pay reserves like starters so if he gets an opportunity to start and gets more $, he won't be back. It's a shame, but that's how the business works now, this isn't the 80s. I want Rob back as well, but I don't think we are going to be able to afford what other teams will offer him because we are currently over the salary cap.

Yeah there are always players in the draft who have talent but the redskins haven't had a young pass rusher as good as Orakpo since the 80s when they had Manley and Mann. To give that up would be beyond foolish!


And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just trade orakpo and get Phillips who is a FA from SD and sign him . I know it sounds dumb but its smart he is a 3-4 OLB and Orakpo value pretty good and can snatch us a 2nd round pick and give us flexibility to draft a much needed thing in thew 2nd round.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
Why not just trade orakpo and get Phillips who is a FA from SD and sign him . I know it sounds dumb but its smart he is a 3-4 OLB and Orakpo value pretty good and can snatch us a 2nd round pick and give us flexibility to draft a much needed thing in thew 2nd round.


Because I'd rather keep a cheap alternative who still has upside. Orakpo could turn in to the guy we all thought he'd be when he was drafted. He could end up being as good a pass rusher as Tambi Hali or DeMarcus Ware have been.

If he ends up finally putting it together, then by all means, sign him long term. I just don't think it's worth it to do it now and hope he can stay healthy and actually become that star player.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not sign Orakpo to an extension that has a built in out if his Pec tears again......We will never get him cheaper than right now. We obviously missed his pass rushing production.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
Dashing wrote:
Why not just trade orakpo and get Phillips who is a FA from SD and sign him . I know it sounds dumb but its smart he is a 3-4 OLB and Orakpo value pretty good and can snatch us a 2nd round pick and give us flexibility to draft a much needed thing in thew 2nd round.


Because I'd rather keep a cheap alternative who still has upside. Orakpo could turn in to the guy we all thought he'd be when he was drafted. He could end up being as good a pass rusher as Tambi Hali or DeMarcus Ware have been.

If he ends up finally putting it together, then by all means, sign him long term. I just don't think it's worth it to do it now and hope he can stay healthy and actually become that star player.
you mean a guy who's put up 29.5 sacks in 3 years and 2 games which puts him in an elite category with some of the leagues best and how they started their careers and those players didnt have to learn two new positions within their 1st two years in the NFL.

Orakpo is just entering his prime, with Kerrigan on the other side, I expect Orakpo to become great very, very soon as he enters the prime of his career.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
We get it. You hate Orakpo.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
We get it. You hate Orakpo.


Don't hate him, just don't see the rush to sign him to a long term deal with injury and performance issues.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
jackson can't hold a candle to Orakpo in what matters most from their position. Pass rushing. Jackson is a good reserve but he isn't a guy you build you defense around, Orakpo is. Teams don't double team Rob Jackson, they double team Orakpo. Jackson will walk for more money and a starting position if its offered to him because he knows in DC he's guess what... A reserve! Unless we have injuries!

2009- 10th
2010- entire new D scheme and played with players who didn't fit in it and dealt with Haynesworths' problem led us to a 31st finish
2011- 12th

2012- Rob Jackson starting we went from tied for 10th in sacks in 2011 to 24th in sacks in the NFL in 2012. Our defensive ranking fell from 12th to 28th with basically the same personnel except for Orakpo (replaced by your man crush Jackson), Carriker (replaced by Jenkins)and Atogwe(replaced by Madieu Williams).

So if Orakpo is healthy you can expect our defense to be around 10th in the NFL. Wink

Do us all a favor and Quit the witch hunt buddy. Wink
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Last edited by turtle28 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
We get it. You hate Orakpo.


Don't hate him, just don't see the rush to sign him to a long term deal with injury and performance issues.
performance issues?

He's been this teams most consistent pass rusher the past 20 years! My gosh.... Laughing
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
We get it. You hate Orakpo.


Don't hate him, just don't see the rush to sign him to a long term deal with injury and performance issues.
performance issues?

He's been this teams most consistent pass rusher the past 20 years! My gosh.... Laughing


That's really not saying a whole lot, given this team's pass rushers.

Defense has changed in the last five years. The days of defenses dominating a game are over. What matters most now are defenders who make plays and get turnovers. And that's not Orakpo. He's a good pass rusher. That's fine, but that's also replaceable. Like I said, we have two years of Orakpo. Why rush in to an extension now?
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
And when Orakpo doesn't have a huge year? When 2011 is the best he can put up? Is it a good deal then?

The Chiefs didn't get a good deal on Hali. They signed him to a 5/60. That's basically 12 million a year. The vikings signed Allen to a 6/72. 12 million a year.

So what, please tell me, has Orakpo done to be worthy of being paid as much as Jared Allen? We have two years to get a deal done with Orkapo, if the Skins want to keep him. I see no reason to rush in to it with a guy who has now a history of injury to his left pectoral, especially given this team's history with injuries.
what has orakpo done to be worthy of being paid by this organization?

since he's stepped on the field as a washington redskin in 09, he's been the teams second best and second most consistent defender behind only London Fletcher. They need to have an injury clause, just like they are going to have with Fred Davis as well!


And what have been the defensive rankings of these squads?

Efforts need to be made to re-sign Jackson, not sign Orakpo to an extension. We have two more years until we have to worry about him walking.
We get it. You hate Orakpo.


Don't hate him, just don't see the rush to sign him to a long term deal with injury and performance issues.
performance issues?

He's been this teams most consistent pass rusher the past 20 years! My gosh.... Laughing


That's really not saying a whole lot, given this team's pass rushers.

Defense has changed in the last five years. The days of defenses dominating a game are over. What matters most now are defenders who make plays and get turnovers. And that's not Orakpo. He's a good pass rusher. That's fine, but that's also replaceable. Like I said, we have two years of Orakpo. Why rush in to an extension now?


His 6th year has already voided due to playing time. This is his contract year. If he has 12+ sacks, he's going to get a huge contract. He can play 4-3 RE and 3-4 ROLB - for some coordinators, the most important position on defense.

It's the Madden strategy (thinking pre-2008). You have a player you know is going to command a big contract in a year or two, so you sign them long-term for a lower cap number, thereby saving money in the long-term. The Eagles have done it successfully for some time.

Bruce Allen has shown that the contracts have been team friendly, so there shouldn't be any concern that they will not build in an 'out'.
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