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Kruger, Ellerbe, or Neither.
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Who u got?
Ellerbe
79%
 79%  [ 23 ]
Kruger
20%
 20%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 29

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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 577
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Kruger, Ellerbe, or Neither. Reply with quote

I think we all know that Cary Williams is gone, and with Ed it depends on what he wants. Does he want to retire a Raven or does he want that last payday? But with Ellerbe and Kruger I think we will make a run at both of them with the intention of signing one because both doesn't seem realistic. Honestly depending on the Flacco situation neither may be realistic. But, with a scenario working out that we can keep one which would u choose. Or are u of the thought process that we let both walk. Me personally I'm at a loss because losing Ray and not knowing what's up with McClain has me worried. But Ellerbe also has a injury history and it makes me wonder can we depend on him for a full season. Then there is Kruger who seems like the future of our pass rush if we can keep him, but there is also Upshaw who hasn't shown he can be the pass rusher that Kruger is but his pursuit in the run game and edge setting is special especially for a rookie. So of possible replacements he definitely has the edge as far as what is on the roster. In the end I think we double dip on the inside maybe Minter and Reddick and resign Kruger to a fair deal and let Ellerbe walk.

If we resign Ellerbe instead I wouldn't be mad either but I think we did too good of a job developing Kruger to just let him walk.
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KiddKillah


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ellerbe.

Kruger has his replacement waiting in Upshaw. If we don't sign Ellerbe, we'd have McClain - coming off an injury and as we all know, isn't that good anyway. Who would we start next to McClain? Bynes? Rookie? Maybe...but I definitely think after Flacco, Ellerbe is the most important re-sign on the list.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Upshaw is going to be better than Kruger. I want to keep Ellerbe. He made a lot of plays for us. I'd imagine he'll demand more than Tulloch got last year which was like $5 million a year which I'm not sure about.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ellerbe. Will be less expensive, and we have a better replacement lined up for Kruger than we do for Ellerbe.

Not to mention, it seems like the new talking point against the Ravens is that we were 9-1 with Ray Lewis this year and 5-5 without him, and thus we should expect to a huge dip next year, but the fact is, the 3 game losing streak that accounts for the true dip in form by the Ravens this year directly accounts for the 3 games Ellerbe missed through injury. Now, I don't think any inside linebacker directly accounts for a W or L and assuming so would be incomplete (the bigger issue was not that just Ellerbe was out but more that Lewis, Ellerbe, and McClain all went out and reduced us to, at a certain point, 4th and 5th string ILB's at a time when the entire defense was hurting). But I think Ellerbe definitely hit a new stride this year and looked phenomenal at times attacking at the LOS. It would be a big loss to lose both Ray and Ellerbe in one offseason and leave us with McClellan, McClain, Byrnes, and maybe a new draft pick. That's where the real dropoff would come, not just from losing Ray.

As I've said before, my best case scenario for this offseason is getting Flacco under a long term deal and opening up some cap space to bring Ellerbe and Reed back.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely Ellerbe.

ILB is weaker, going into the off-season, and the loss of Ray Lewis is obviously going to be more than just missing the plays he makes on the field. All the experience the Ravens can muster in the middle of that defense will be needed.

The Ravens will need to draft someone in that position, but even so, they'll need the experience that McClain and Ellerbe bring more than they'll need it from Kruger at OLB.

Kruger is a really effective pass rusher, but I think he's a luxury the Ravens can't afford right now. Upshaw is the better all-round defender, he's younger, much cheaper.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ellerbe.

IMO, the priorities this off-season should be

Flacco
Ellerbe
Reed
Kruger
Williams

Kruger and Williams are just going to cost more than we can afford to pay. Signing them long term would just hinder the team more than it would help.
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bmorecareful


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I can see why more people would want to keep Ellerbe. Kruger is definitely more expendable and Upshaw has real Upside no pun intended lol. I just don't trust Ellerbe man, he is a good player though and if he has truly finally matured (big if IMO) he can be a real asset going forward. So given this scenario works out who would be the Ideal guy to line up next to him (draftwise) and would he talk over Rays role or would we keep him where he is. I definitely could see him taking over Rays on field duties but can u see him making the calls and taking on a leadership role.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmorecareful wrote:
I guess I can see why more people would want to keep Ellerbe. Kruger is definitely more expendable and Upshaw has real Upside no pun intended lol. I just don't trust Ellerbe man, he is a good player though and if he has truly finally matured (big if IMO) he can be a real asset going forward. So given this scenario works out who would be the Ideal guy to line up next to him (draftwise) and would he talk over Rays role or would we keep him where he is. I definitely could see him taking over Rays on field duties but can u see him making the calls and taking on a leadership role.


To pair with Ellerbe we would need an athletic guy, somebody like Kevin Minter, Arthur Brown, etc. I think Ellerbe is best in a more thumper role, though he has the athleticism to play other roles as well.

Signals wise, I'm not sure who it would be up to. I'd imagine if McClain comes back and starts, it'd be him. Otherwise, I could see Ellerbe doing it over a rookie at least for the first year.

Leadership wise, I don't know if Ellerbe has those qualities but honestly, you don't always need the ILB to be the leader. We're so used to it with Ray, but that leadership can come from anywhere on the defense.
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NJ Raven


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teams love overpaying our LBs so I wouldn't be surprised if we miss out on both.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting question. With the draft class this year the Ravens could get a quality replacement (or upgrade) for either player in the first few rounds so that somewhat nullifies that aspect of the decision. Ellerbe and Kruger are really close in age too (with Ellerbe being slightly older) so that's not much of a concern. To me it would come down to who Baltimore could get on the better deal relative to their positions. I say that because obviously Kruger is going to cost more but as a pass-rusher that's to be expected and to get or keep those kinds of players NFL teams have to be willing to pay them.

NJ Raven wrote:
Teams love overpaying our LBs so I wouldn't be surprised if we miss out on both.


Yes they do. I think there's a good chance that both will sign bigger deals elsewhere but for the purposes of this topic I would keep Kruger over Ellerbe (as long as it's on a somewhat reasonable deal). My stance is even if Suggs returns to form and Upshaw improves as a pass-rusher it won't be enough. To me this is the most important aspect of the defense in the NFL today with so many good QBs out there right now.

OLB isn't necessarily a need but it's hard to judge needs by position these days since teams don't run as many base sets as they used to. Against some opponents it would be foolish to do so (like New England). I would feel more comfortable with a lineup that had two established pass-rushers and a guy with upside like Upshaw as opposed to just Suggs and Upshaw with a rookie pass-rusher.

As much as I hate to say it the team still has McClain too. They seem to be fairly high on him and one thing I will give him is I think he would be the better option in terms of leadership. He's the guy that had the green dot while Lewis was out (and McClain was still healthy). This might not be a huge factor but I feel like it does make some difference. Give me a lineup looking like:

RUSH: Suggs, Kruger
WILB: ROOKIE, Ayanbadejo
MILB: McClain, Bynes
SAM: Upshaw, McClellan

over something like this:

RUSH: Suggs, ROOKIE
WILB: Ellerbe, Ayanbadejo
MILB: McClain, Bynes
SAM: Upshaw, McClellan

There isn't a huge gap for me between wanting to keep Ellerbe or Kruger I would just rather take my chances at finding a quality replacement at ILB rather than a pass-rusher.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resign Ellerbe, draft an E.T. (Montgomery please) and move to a 43 base

----------Upshaw------ McClellan ------ Ellerbe
Suggs----- Ngata ----- ?????? ----- Montgomery

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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BareYourTeeth wrote:
Resign Ellerbe, draft an E.T. (Montgomery please) and move to a 43 base

----------Upshaw------ McClellan ------ Ellerbe
Suggs----- Ngata ----- ?????? ----- Montgomery

In this scenario there is simply no MLB... that's the most important part of that alignment. You need a MLB that can play sideline to sideline.

We've been a 34 base team for some time now, I see no reason to change that now. We already use the 43 in pass rushing situations a lot of the time anyway, either that or a nickel.
------------

In terms of the question. I think I'd RATHER have back Kruger of the two... simply because he's a pass rusher, but he's also going to be more expensive.

With Ellerbe, I want him back, but it depends on his asking price. If he wants $5m+, I say let him walk. We have McClain who is competent and I really like what Bynes brought to the table. I honestly think Bynes will be a better option inside than McClain by next offseason. He was dominating in camps apparently and then had his injury. Then by his 2nd start he was looking pretty darn good out there. So given another offseason and some motivation to compete for a starting job, I like him as an option. He's just proven to make plays no matter his role.

The ILB class is REALLY good. And what we need for an OLB is essentially just a 3rd down pass rush specialist. This draft has plenty of talented pass rushing options. A guy like Corey Lemonier is an underrated player in the process at this point. I'd love to get him in the 3rd round to plug into that role.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
BareYourTeeth wrote:
Resign Ellerbe, draft an E.T. (Montgomery please) and move to a 43 base

----------Upshaw------ McClellan ------ Ellerbe
Suggs----- Ngata ----- ?????? ----- Montgomery

In this scenario there is simply no MLB... that's the most important part of that alignment. You need a MLB that can play sideline to sideline.

We've been a 34 base team for some time now, I see no reason to change that now. We already use the 43 in pass rushing situations a lot of the time anyway, either that or a nickel.
------------

In terms of the question. I think I'd RATHER have back Kruger of the two... simply because he's a pass rusher, but he's also going to be more expensive.

With Ellerbe, I want him back, but it depends on his asking price. If he wants $5m+, I say let him walk. We have McClain who is competent and I really like what Bynes brought to the table. I honestly think Bynes will be a better option inside than McClain by next offseason. He was dominating in camps apparently and then had his injury. Then by his 2nd start he was looking pretty darn good out there. So given another offseason and some motivation to compete for a starting job, I like him as an option. He's just proven to make plays no matter his role.

The ILB class is REALLY good. And what we need for an OLB is essentially just a 3rd down pass rush specialist. This draft has plenty of talented pass rushing options. A guy like Corey Lemonier is an underrated player in the process at this point. I'd love to get him in the 3rd round to plug into that role.



Pretty much the response I was expecting, the MLB spot being looked at as too weak with McClellan there. I realize I might be a little higher on him than most of you here, if not all, but I really think he should be the guy to man the position. When I put on the tape he really reminds me of Brandon Spikes. He can get it done against the run and has pass rushing skills that can be utilized up the middle. In addition to being a sound tackler, he's also great at shedding blocks. The only thing he really lacks is that speed you've seen from Arthur Brown. I just really want McClellan to at least be given a chance, not going to hold my breath however Embarassed

You're right about us needing an OLB that is just a 3rd down pass rush specialist and Montgomery is definitely a guy that could do that, in the same way Aldon Smith/Terrell Suggs did in their rookie seasons.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be a horrible LB group in coverage. The one they have/had wasn't that good either but that's just downright awful. I think Ellerbe would almost certainly be playing MLB in that scenario and the team would need to bring in a new WLB. Upshaw would play SAM in either formation but there's still a bit of a difference between a 3-4 SAM and a 4-3 SAM. At least enough of one where I wouldn't want to see him standing up in a 4-3. I'm happy with the 3-4 base when they're not running nickel or dime sets.

A guy like Montgomery would still be good though (if Kruger leaves) because the Ravens run enough nickel and dime sets where they would need another good edge-rusher across from Suggs.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
That would be a horrible LB group in coverage. The one they have/had wasn't that good either but that's just downright awful. I think Ellerbe would almost certainly be playing MLB in that scenario and the team would need to bring in a new WLB. Upshaw would play SAM in either formation but there's still a bit of a difference between a 3-4 SAM and a 4-3 SAM. At least enough of one where I wouldn't want to see him standing up in a 4-3. I'm happy with the 3-4 base when they're not running nickel or dime sets.

A guy like Montgomery would still be good though (if Kruger leaves) because the Ravens run enough nickel and dime sets where they would need another good edge-rusher across from Suggs.


I really don't see much of a difference in Dont'a Hightower and Upshaw, Mayo and Ellerbe, and as I previously mentioned, Spikes and McClellan, yet New England seems to make due with those guys just fine in that base. And I think you severely underrate Ellerbe's coverage skills, btw.

I'm glad we can agree on Montgomery, though.
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