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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11926
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resign Quin, make him stay as our deep safety with Manning when we play 3 safeties and draft another big hitter to fill his role of roaming around near the line.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Idk how any team has him rated as a top 10-15 talent. There's no way UT had a top 10 talent playing in its secondary last season...
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biggio7


Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11926
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.


So you read my post and thought the following:

a) kenney has a reliable source who can relate draft information to him
b) kenney would share that information, if he had access to it, on an internet message board
c) kenney is capable of breaking information that no one else in all of Houston sports media has access to
d) the Texans didn't have Kenny Vaccaro high on their draft board
e) Kenny Vaccaro's stock would improve with any team after running a 4.7 40

Okay, cool. Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.


So you read my post and thought the following:

a) kenney has a reliable source who can relate draft information to him
b) kenney would share that information, if he had access to it, on an internet message board
c) kenney is capable of breaking information that no one else in all of Houston sports media has access to
d) the Texans didn't have Kenny Vaccaro high on their draft board
e) Kenny Vaccaro's stock would improve with any team after running a 4.7 40

Okay, cool. Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm.


Gonna have to agree that nothing in your post SCREAMED sarcasm to anyone. The ONLY thing that could have HINTED it was the 4.7. And even that wasn't glaringly obvious
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11926
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.


So you read my post and thought the following:

a) kenney has a reliable source who can relate draft information to him
b) kenney would share that information, if he had access to it, on an internet message board
c) kenney is capable of breaking information that no one else in all of Houston sports media has access to
d) the Texans didn't have Kenny Vaccaro high on their draft board
e) Kenny Vaccaro's stock would improve with any team after running a 4.7 40

Okay, cool. Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm.


Gonna have to agree that nothing in your post SCREAMED sarcasm to anyone. The ONLY thing that could have HINTED it was the 4.7. And even that wasn't glaringly obvious


Well, to be really clear then, that post was sarcastic, as was the final sentence of the post you quoted which read, "Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm." What I actually meant was, "Guess you all need to work on your reading comprehension."
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biggio7


Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry kenney, I have no idea what you do in the outside world. You could have been being honest about it. And yeah, why not put it on a message board like this. No NFL team is going to actually read this site. A Houston sports media place would not want to break that type of news.

And, I agree, obviously, with what ax2 said about your post.
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.


So you read my post and thought the following:

a) kenney has a reliable source who can relate draft information to him
b) kenney would share that information, if he had access to it, on an internet message board
c) kenney is capable of breaking information that no one else in all of Houston sports media has access to
d) the Texans didn't have Kenny Vaccaro high on their draft board
e) Kenny Vaccaro's stock would improve with any team after running a 4.7 40

Okay, cool. Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm.

The 4.7 should have been the dead giveaway considering our affinity for slow safeties.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Heard through the grapevine that Kenny Vaccaro got moved to the top of our draft board when he ran that 4.7 40.


Not really sure why that would put him at the top of the draft board. I hope he will be gone by the time the Texans pick anyway. Not a fan of him.


How was my post not immediately understood as biting sarcasm?


Cause it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. And there was no added laughter or even remotely close to a sarcastic tone to the words written.


So you read my post and thought the following:

a) kenney has a reliable source who can relate draft information to him
b) kenney would share that information, if he had access to it, on an internet message board
c) kenney is capable of breaking information that no one else in all of Houston sports media has access to
d) the Texans didn't have Kenny Vaccaro high on their draft board
e) Kenny Vaccaro's stock would improve with any team after running a 4.7 40

Okay, cool. Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm.


Gonna have to agree that nothing in your post SCREAMED sarcasm to anyone. The ONLY thing that could have HINTED it was the 4.7. And even that wasn't glaringly obvious


Well, to be really clear then, that post was sarcastic, as was the final sentence of the post you quoted which read, "Guess I need to work on being more obvious with my sarcasm." What I actually meant was, "Guess you all need to work on your reading comprehension."


calm down there patsy cline, sometimes picking up subtle hints on a website isn't as easy as you think it is when posting....
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kenney


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry everyone.
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houstonX


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first I was confused, but then I turned into Philip J. Fry.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

houstonX wrote:
At first I was confused, but then I turned into Philip J. Fry.


...why not Zoidberg?
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
I reject the new premise of the thread that seems to be that not franchising Quin means losing him. You don't franchise healthy young players you plan on resigning unless you are just doing it to finish up his deal. You guys are vastly overestimating the market for a non-playmaking safety like Quin and letting his agent dip his toe in the water is a reasonable risk for a player that could be replaced with one of our 4 picks in the first 3rd rounds.

Any other year, I would agree...but with a salary floor coming into effect this offseason (I THINK it's this offseason) you're going to see middle-level talent getting large deals, just because teams have a needs to fill up cap. Guys who have no business making big money WILL be making big money, simply because teams have to spend it. Nobody is allowed to be like Mike Brown and the Bengals, keeping cap numbers low.

Why else do you think someone like Brian Hartline would get close to $7MM/year? Teams are going to be scrambling to get to that floor, and after the big names on the market are signed, teams are going to have an excess amount of money, and no real names worthy of not to go after, save for a three year starter with experience at CB and S. It's not that Quin is WORTH it, it's just that the CBA stipulates that teams with the scratch are going to have to spend it.

Quote:
He's a demoted CB that is not even one of the top 5 safeties on the market, better yet top 5 safeties in the game (which franchising him would pay him as). He has far greater value to us than other teams that need a safety, but he is clearly inferior to Daniel Manning who is a complete safety where Quin tops out a good tackler who can cover most of the TEs we face (but not the elite like Hernandez). I'm all for bringing in another safety (speedy, rangy center field type) as #3, but I seriously doubt Quin will be deluged with $6 million/season offers and will end up back with us at a reasonable 4 year / $15-$18 ish salary.

For the most part, I agree...but that salary floor is going to establish some really "out there" deals. Yes, teams will be looking at the likes of LaRon Landry and DaShon Goldson, but once those two are off the market, and a team like the Browns are sitting there with a lot of money and no additions to show for it, you'll see GMs taking very big risks on players who represent a very low reward.

In regards to the needs at #3 - I agree, and I can hope the Texans really invest time and effort in getting to know NC State CB David Amerson. Guy showed that he had some positional speed at CB, but the word is that he doesn't play that fast. IMO, it doesn't matter - anyone who can pick off 13 passes for 205 yards in 2011 has the goods to play whatever spot he wants to play in the secondary. Safety, CB...whatever. I'm on board with that, but don't risk your current infastructure because you THINK you can improve.

Quote:
I have no idea why Texans fans continue to freak out any time we expose players to FA, especially with Rick's track record with guys like Mario, Dunta, Brisiel, Dreessen, Ryans, Winston, etc that got vastly overpaid on the open market leading to lose/lose deals for their teams and the players. The Ravens are about the only team that has done well with our FA's, but those players were simply better fits for them than they were for us (Leach/Pollard/Jones). Replacing Ed Reed with Glover Quin would be like replacing Ray Lewis with Zac Diles. Quin/Pollard were 1/2 of one of the 5 worst secondaries in NFL history and I doubt anyone is eager to recreate that (even if Jackson, McCain, Wilson were even weaker links). All teams need guys like Quin that just do the boring stuff like tackling and basic coverage on tertiary targets, but you PAY for STARS to make big plays, cover other playmakers, and Glover Quin is just a guy.

I'm not necessarily freaking out, but I do feel as if it creates a hole that doesn't need to be created. If it comes off as me "freaking out" it has moreso to do with the thought of a guy like Quentin Demps or Shiloh Keo starting, or moving someone like Roc Carmichael to S, or relying on a rookie to start in a secondary that took massive steps backwards last season - for all of his non-playmaking ability, Quin was perhaps the most consistent player in the secondary last year, even with his responsibilities changing moreso than the likes of Jackson, Manning or Joseph.

All in all, I agree with your premise - Quin holds more value to the Texans vs the other 31 teams in the NFL, and the market is actually saturated with players who play a similar role and could be construed as a "better" player. But, why rock the boat and create a new hole, when this team has holes that need to be considered outside of Quin? Sure, Quin is out and Amerson is in with a top 64 pick. That's fine, but which spot do we sacrifice? That WR that we need opposite AJ, or that NT that we need to replace Shaun Cody? One of those two will have to be given up on (or we can hope that Loni Fangupo or LesStar Jean suddenly "get it" which is...well, not gonna happen).

Don't break the bank for the guy, yes. But if someone DOES break the bank for the guy (which is feasable, as the market has a new component that will lead to excessive money to be paid out to marginal talent) then...what do we do? We have an answer if Mario Williams walked away (which he did) we have an answer if Mike Breisel walked away (which he did) we have an "answer" when Joel Dreessen walked away (which he did, and given how our RZ offense completely faltered without Joel D, I'd hesitate to call it an answer) we have an answer if Jason Allen Walks away (which he did) we have an answer if/when Brice McCain walks away, and we have an answer if/when Connor Barwin walks away.

What's our answer if Quin walks away?


Agree with most of this, but I don't think the cap floor will play out quite in the manner you suggest with younger players like Quin. The cheap owners will continue to be cheap and risk averse when it comes into locking in long-term deals. I think this will be a great season to be a Steven Jackson / Dwight Freeney type free agent or specifically at safety, Ed Reed / Charles Woodson / Nate Clemens that have 1 or 2 good years left that teams will throw down $10 million for for one season to meet the floor with a player that has value both as a current player and as one unlikely to get any long-term offers. I also fully anticipate plenty of reverse cap engineering by restructuring deals with vets into what would currently be viewed as a bad cap deal. I still think William Moore, Delmas, Kenny Phillips, Laron Landy will be ahead of Quin on most target lists due to their higher upsides and playmaking skill, somebody may go after Stevie Brown as an RFA if they don't use the 1st round tag on him, with Quin being in the next tier with Chris Clemens and Patrick Chung in the group of steady, unspectacular group.

Personally, I would swap William Moore in for Quin in a heartbeat. I also wouldn't be crushed if we brought in Chung as our in the box guy and targeted Cyprien or Reid in the 2nd (I like Shamarko Thomas too, but I liked him much better when he was a deep sleeper before the combine). I suspect Vacarro will rebound after running at his pro day, but I do have a tough time not seeing a bit of Michael Griffin / Aaron Williams in him (the slow bad parts) but I'm probably being influenced by the uniform but I don't see Earl Thomas out there (who also had a crappy combine that I was hoping could hurt him enough to fall to us). He still holds a warm place in my heart for the play where he wore a different jersey and picked off a pass to send A&M out of the Big 12 on a losing note (one of the few times I've ever rooted for UT in anything other than vs. Reggie Bush USC in the national championship). Griffin still has 19 more non Rusty Smith thrown ints than Quin, so I guess I shouldn't bash the guy too much vs. Quin.

Regardless, there is a ample supply of options for us at safety, and I'm just not crazy about locking ourselves into Quin long-term at any sort of premium price as he exudes "slightly above average" to me, which is better than the below average safety play we had 2002-2011, but far from a difference maker like the infusion of talent guys like Earl Thomas, Mark Barron, Harrison Smith, Eric Berry and others have brought to the position the past few drafts. I think there is a danger in thinking this defense is Super Bowl ready without upgrades as we clearly cannot hang with the Patriots and I'm not certain we would have against the Broncos or Ravens if they got a second shot at us like the Colts did.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should bring in pacman to play slot cb. He has behaved and would come fairly cheap. He would really solidify our corners. He made less than 1 million last year should come cheap
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