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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I've said multiple times in the draft thread, there's a ton of guys on the same talents level between picks 15-60 possibly deeper. A smart team would stock pile as many picks as they can this year and load up.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
Like I've said multiple times in the draft thread, there's a ton of guys on the same talents level between picks 15-60 possibly deeper. A smart team would stock pile as many picks as they can this year and load up.


Seems like this is the case. This isn't 2011 where there are major superstars at each position (Cam/Kaep, Watt, Miller, Peterson, Jones, Smith, Green, etc) but there are some good football players to be had here.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Like I've said multiple times in the draft thread, there's a ton of guys on the same talents level between picks 15-60 possibly deeper. A smart team would stock pile as many picks as they can this year and load up.


Seems like this is the case. This isn't 2011 where there are major superstars at each position (Cam/Kaep, Watt, Miller, Peterson, Jones, Smith, Green, etc) but there are some good football players to be had here.


Listing Kaep isn't really fair. It wasn't like Luck/RGIII. He was a VERY raw guy that went in the 2nd for a reason. Hardly would call him a "superstar" prospect. And ultimately that is what you are talking about because for all we know there will be superstars that come out of this draft. They just aren't projected to.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
Like I've said multiple times in the draft thread, there's a ton of guys on the same talents level between picks 15-60 possibly deeper. A smart team would stock pile as many picks as they can this year and load up.


Seems like this is the case. This isn't 2011 where there are major superstars at each position (Cam/Kaep, Watt, Miller, Peterson, Jones, Smith, Green, etc) but there are some good football players to be had here.


Listing Kaep isn't really fair. It wasn't like Luck/RGIII. He was a VERY raw guy that went in the 2nd for a reason. Hardly would call him a "superstar" prospect. And ultimately that is what you are talking about because for all we know there will be superstars that come out of this draft. They just aren't projected to.


Fair enough, take Kaep out of the equasion. You still have:

- A QB who owns the single season All Time rushing TD record in Cam Newton
- Only one of three QB in NFL history to throw for 20+ TD passes in his first two seasons in Andy Dalton
- A DPOY DE in Watt
- A top 3 LB in Miller
- A top 3-4 OLB in Smith
- Two of the top 10 WRs in Jones and Green
- A guy closing in on top 5 status at CB in Peterson.

Can you tell me a draft that developed THIS much talent in recent memory? I recollect that the DPOY race was between Watt, Miller and Smith, no? That's three of the best defenders in the NFL, all drafted in the same class.

I don't think there's a class out there that compares.
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dsorc


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really liking Sio Moore as a possible ILB for us. His biggest question mark was his weight as he was listed at 230ish at Connecticut. He showed up at the combine at 245, ran a 4.62 with a 10'7" broad jump and 29 reps. He was also productive in college as a OLB in 4-3 and 3-4 looks with 7.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL , and 11 passes deflected. And oh yeah, he has experience covering TEs and slot WR's one-on-one.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FML if Teo falls to us and we draft him. I was skeptical at first, but I don't want him anymore. We could get way better value in round 2-3 by picking Kevin Reddick or Jon Bostic.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
FML if Teo falls to us and we draft him. I was skeptical at first, but I don't want him anymore. We could get way better value in round 2-3 by picking Kevin Reddick or Jon Bostic.


4.82 smh Rolling Eyes
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
I am really liking Sio Moore as a possible ILB for us. His biggest question mark was his weight as he was listed at 230ish at Connecticut. He showed up at the combine at 245, ran a 4.62 with a 10'7" broad jump and 29 reps. He was also productive in college as a OLB in 4-3 and 3-4 looks with 7.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL , and 11 passes deflected. And oh yeah, he has experience covering TEs and slot WR's one-on-one.


I like Sio Moore, but he'll be drafted as a 4-3 WLB. He's a playmaker in the Cato June mold.

The guy I'd like to see us draft right now is Bostic.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
dsorc wrote:
I am really liking Sio Moore as a possible ILB for us. His biggest question mark was his weight as he was listed at 230ish at Connecticut. He showed up at the combine at 245, ran a 4.62 with a 10'7" broad jump and 29 reps. He was also productive in college as a OLB in 4-3 and 3-4 looks with 7.5 sacks, 15.5 TFL , and 11 passes deflected. And oh yeah, he has experience covering TEs and slot WR's one-on-one.


I like Sio Moore, but he'll be drafted as a 4-3 WLB. He's a playmaker in the Cato June mold.

The guy I'd like to see us draft right now is Bostic.


YUP! He should be there with out 3rd comp pick (if we get it) and possibly our 4th.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Credit on the 1st round billing (which isn't set in stone, as Tavon Austin is closing in on a sub 4.2, DeAndre Hopkins is living up to expectations, Terrance Williams is living up to expectations, Patterson has folks drooling as long as he ain't talking, Justin Hunter is killing EVERYTHING in sight, Robert Woods is bigger and faster than expected, Da'Rick Rogers is getting folks to forget he's a bit of a malcontent...and look for someone to overvalue the hell out of Marcus Davis and Mark Harrison, as 6+ 230+ WRs with 4.4 time seem to get drafted well ahead of where they should be drafted) but...I wasn't talking about Swope in the 1st being out of the question, it's that he just whipped through the 40 in a time that folks were expecting from other players.


Wait a minute. Are you saying there may be interest in 5' 8" Big 12 receiver like Tavon Austin in the 1st round? Are we now revising last year's stand against sub 6' 1" WRs in light of yet another season of proof that it's time to ditch this outmoded requirement (perhaps you were watching as we got beaten by teams featuring the 5' 10" and below likes of Randall Cobb, T.Y. Hilton, Welker, and even Jarius Wright this year).

Not to change the subject, but since I mentioned conference strength again, might as well twist the knife by lamenting further if only we had a Big 10 NFL prototype like Nick Toon or Marvin McNutt or rode the post-combine wave that pushed Illinois AJ Jenkins from the 5th to the 1st round. Yep it's pretty clear if those Big 10 schools (or Big 10-ish Notre Dame with Floyd) just threw the ball more we'd have seen why picking Posey & Martin made more sense than believing the inflated numbers of Big 12 guys like Blackmon, Kendall Wright, and Broyles. Strange there was no mention of Marquise Goodwin running even faster than Austin here? TCU's Josh Boyce? OU's Kenny Stills? Kind of reminds me of Baylor afterthought Josh Gordon still doing better than most of the rest of the rookie class. Gee, I thought Big 12 secondaries were just so bad they made these Big 12 receivers look good (and we get 3/4 credit for Swope too). Can't wait for the "but Terrance Williams has small hands" take as if the 97 catches for 1832 yards last year were because Nick Florence (who didn't even bother trying to make an NFL team) threw such perfect balls they just stuck to TW's baby doll hands.

Please, please, please continue to hype Cordarrelle Patterson projecting to be the next coming of Julio Jones so PROVEN players like Williams, Swope, Stills and others that actually played well against teams a tad better than 3 win Sun Belt powerhouse Troy or winless SEC joke Kentucky drop to us. Yep Keenan Allen would have been GREAT if not for his crummy QB (Cal's Marvin Jones sure tore it up once freed from crappy Cal QB play huh?). I LOVE how the offseason hype train drives straight into looney land when it comes to what players may become as pro's, while ignoring what players actually did on tape in football games (beyond a 10 play highlight package on youtube). Guess what, on paper, Mike Tyson rarely had an advantage over an opponent in the 1980's (too short, poor reach), but when you put on the tape there wasn't a fighter he faced that stood a chance against him.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh hell, THIS again!? Crying or Very sad

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Quote:
Credit on the 1st round billing (which isn't set in stone, as Tavon Austin is closing in on a sub 4.2, DeAndre Hopkins is living up to expectations, Terrance Williams is living up to expectations, Patterson has folks drooling as long as he ain't talking, Justin Hunter is killing EVERYTHING in sight, Robert Woods is bigger and faster than expected, Da'Rick Rogers is getting folks to forget he's a bit of a malcontent...and look for someone to overvalue the hell out of Marcus Davis and Mark Harrison, as 6+ 230+ WRs with 4.4 time seem to get drafted well ahead of where they should be drafted) but...I wasn't talking about Swope in the 1st being out of the question, it's that he just whipped through the 40 in a time that folks were expecting from other players.


Wait a minute. Are you saying there may be interest in 5' 8" Big 12 receiver like Tavon Austin in the 1st round? Are we now revising last year's stand against sub 6' 1" WRs in light of yet another season of proof that it's time to ditch this outmoded requirement (perhaps you were watching as we got beaten by teams featuring the 5' 10" and below likes of Randall Cobb, T.Y. Hilton, Welker, and even Jarius Wright this year).

No, I - EliteTexan80 - am not changing a damn thing, and I am completely unsure as to why you believe I am. I mentioned Tavon Austin as a 1st round pick. Which, you know...he IS. Doesn't mean I think the Texans are picking him, just means I'm calling a spade a spade, and a guy who just ripped off a 4.25 and had a phenomenal year for the Mountaneers is - GASP! - a 1st round pick. Not a guy we should pick at 27, not a guy who will challenge the big boy WRs for the title of "top 5 WR in the NFL" but a 1st round pick.

In fact - here's a discussion I had on this EXACT subject in another area of the forum: 27th pick - Houston

I wrote:
Hmm. Austin's size just concerns me to no end. I'm not a fan of smaller WRs, and the Texans seem to follow that trend as well; Guys who get PT are the bigger sized WRs, guys who have the body to block downfield and open up additional lanes for the run game to take advantage of. You also have to factor in the lack of arm strength displayed by Matt Schaub on downfield plays - guy showed a real lack of deep ball capabilities as the season wore on, and it's always been a looming concern since he took the starting job. Bringing in someone who can stretch the field is promising in theory, but in practical application, well...hope that Austin can outjump whatever CB is trailing him, because he'll have to more often than not.


To quote the great Chris Tucker in Rush Hour: DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH!? Because coming to the conclusion that I in ANY way suggested Austin as someone the Texans should target...tells me you ain't.

BTW - 6'3" 228 Jordy Nelson was the one to tear up the Texans. Unless you think receptions > TDs. Same goes for Aaron Hernandez being the harbinger of doom for the Texans' against the Pats in the Regular Season, and RB Shane Vereen being that guy in the playoffs. At the least you got TY Hilton and Jarius Wright correct. Good for you. Hitting .400 is somthing to be proud of.

Quote:
Not to change the subject...

...because we know YOU don't do that. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
...but since I mentioned conference strength again, might as well twist the knife by lamenting further if only we had a Big 10 NFL prototype like Nick Toon or Marvin McNutt or rode the post-combine wave that pushed Illinois AJ Jenkins from the 5th to the 1st round. Yep it's pretty clear if those Big 10 schools (or Big 10-ish Notre Dame with Floyd) just threw the ball more we'd have seen why picking Posey & Martin made more sense than believing the inflated numbers of Big 12 guys like Blackmon, Kendall Wright, and Broyles. Strange there was no mention of Marquise Goodwin running even faster than Austin here? TCU's Josh Boyce? OU's Kenny Stills? Kind of reminds me of Baylor afterthought Josh Gordon still doing better than most of the rest of the rookie class. Gee, I thought Big 12 secondaries were just so bad they made these Big 12 receivers look good (and we get 3/4 credit for Swope too). Can't wait for the "but Terrance Williams has small hands" take as if the 97 catches for 1832 yards last year were because Nick Florence (who didn't even bother trying to make an NFL team) threw such perfect balls they just stuck to TW's baby doll hands.

Um...OK. Sounds like someone is overcompensating for some inadequacies in regards for conference (they don't have a pill for that, so I don't blame you). I don't think I've ever cited a conference as to why a player should be taken and one shouldn't be. Maybe some SEC mention in there (that's more you and kenney) but hey - Julio Jones and AJ Green have only taken their place as two of the top 10 WRs in the NFL, in only their 2nd year in the league. ACCs Calvin Johnson is still regarded as the best WR in the NFL, probably the most physically dominant figure the league has seen. Former Big East track and football star Andre Johnson is still widely regarded as a top 3 talent in the league. MAC/CUSA WR Brandon Marshall is churning out season after season of video game-like numbers.

So, settle for being the best in a terribly weak draft class. I aspire for more, and that's what I look for when I look at WRs - not what college they went to.

Quote:
Please, please, please continue to hype Cordarrelle Patterson projecting to be the next coming of Julio Jones so PROVEN players like Williams, Swope, Stills...

...or Justin Hunter, the productive TN WR who I've been "hyping" up. You wanna take this Patterson debate up for a good ol' rogering, take it up with Ax2, not me. I actually don't care for Patterson, if you must know. I actually have Williams and Hunter ahead of Patterson - as I do DeAndre Hopkins and now...Ryan Swope.

So, not sure why you're yelling, Brick.

Quote:
I LOVE how the offseason hype train drives straight into looney land when it comes to what players may become as pro's, while ignoring what players actually did on tape in football games (beyond a 10 play highlight package on youtube).

You and me both, man. Point out a guy I've hyped strictly based on "potential" because...well, not sure you'll find it over ANY draft class we've all been a part of. Maybe that ill advised Ron Brace stuff, but that's about it.

EDIT: Dontari Poe. Was pimping him out, too. We all have a miss, here and there.
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Last edited by EliteTexan80 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im still taking teo in the 1st if he is there when we pick
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
im still taking teo in the 1st if he is there when we pick


Combine performance + drama + completely getting exposed against Alabama = he'll be there in the 2nd if we wanted him.
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canyon1


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Apollo I might agree to an extent with you about the Big 12 producing recievers. As the big ten produces more offensive line. (Im a big ten fan) PRoblem with big 12 recievers is that the smaller recievers dont block as well as your big bodied recievers. Martin is small but he came from the big ten so he knew how to block well enough to see the field. Big 12 is a spread confrence where they dont really block at all just run routes and make plays. So they are two different types of recievers. YOUR ISSUE is that Kubiak wants the BIG TEN blocking type aka POSEY, MARTIN. Perfect example of proof is look how long Walter was on this team
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I wasn't clearer. Was merely busting your rocks over last year's vehement stand against sub 6 foot WRs. My recollection was that this was a much broader value objection than just for the Texans, but if you say it was just about the Texans, I'll trust your memory of your take. I still disagree, as Rod Smith was barely 6 feet, but the crux of my argument is that this whole "Texans system requires a 6' 3" blocking WR like Kevin Walter" is a complete bs rationalization that will be quickly disproven the second we actually field a decent WR option besides AJ. If our "system" can't use a guy like Tavon Austin or Kendall Wright, then our system inherently fields inferior players and needs to be scrapped immediately. It doesn't as evidenced by us picking 5' 10" Keshawn Martin in the 4th, the Texans just let the same bias as you presented have them draft Devier Posey over better but shorter players like Hilton, Givens, or Wright. So you think they should compound the mistake by again not considering players at WR based upon height?

When I said I was switching subjects, I meant I was switching my target to those with other takes (like conference) in the great Kendall Wright debates of 2012. Anti-Baylor crowd was using everything in their disposal last year and I'm not going to be robbed of the opportunity to use this against the hordes this year, especially with Terrence Williams again presenting a very attractive option from my alma mater.
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