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2013 Draft Thread Version 3.0/List of NFL Combine Invitees
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THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Some people say that jones' back will last 5-7 years, well most rookie contracts are about 5 years. Who's to say that the guy will even be on our team in 6 years. This whole we draft a good guy and we'll have them for ten years thing is pretty dumb I mean most players don't even play for their drafted team their whole careers.

This is how you make a consistent competitor, you draft an elite player and then a year or two before their contracts up you draft their replacement. It's why the patriots, and the steelers and the ravens have been dominate teams.

So in other words I wouldn't hate the pick as long as we got those 5 years of elite play, odds are they'd be gone by year 6 anyway.


If we let the guy we draft at #3 go after his rookie contract, it will probably mean he wasn't worth the pick. Why would we let go of a 27 year old stud? The Steelers, Ravens or Patriots don't do that either.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, to name a few, were re-signed. They're letting go of players who were overated to begin with because they don't fall into the trap of overpaying for role players. They're willing to spend when they have to though.


Tough one, not sure the Texans would swap Mario Williams or the Dolphins Jake Long (if he doesn't resign) and they got 5 years out of a #1 pick.

At this point I would be glad to get 5/6 years play out of our 1st round pick.


+1... You named a few people, ray, mankins, wilfork, Ed reed, I'll throw another off the top of my head polamalu. .... Keep going? My point, in this day an age with how free Angeny works its so unlikely thAt your going to have a player who's going to be with you 10+ years. And if I can get 5-7 good years out of a player I'm pretty happy. Name a googld player on our team who we drafted who has been with for 6+ years? Not many.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
Dessie wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Some people say that jones' back will last 5-7 years, well most rookie contracts are about 5 years. Who's to say that the guy will even be on our team in 6 years. This whole we draft a good guy and we'll have them for ten years thing is pretty dumb I mean most players don't even play for their drafted team their whole careers.

This is how you make a consistent competitor, you draft an elite player and then a year or two before their contracts up you draft their replacement. It's why the patriots, and the steelers and the ravens have been dominate teams.

So in other words I wouldn't hate the pick as long as we got those 5 years of elite play, odds are they'd be gone by year 6 anyway.


If we let the guy we draft at #3 go after his rookie contract, it will probably mean he wasn't worth the pick. Why would we let go of a 27 year old stud? The Steelers, Ravens or Patriots don't do that either.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, to name a few, were re-signed. They're letting go of players who were overated to begin with because they don't fall into the trap of overpaying for role players. They're willing to spend when they have to though.


Tough one, not sure the Texans would swap Mario Williams or the Dolphins Jake Long (if he doesn't resign) and they got 5 years out of a #1 pick.

At this point I would be glad to get 5/6 years play out of our 1st round pick.


+1... You named a few people, ray, mankins, wilfork, Ed reed, I'll throw another off the top of my head polamalu. .... Keep going? My point, in this day an age with how free Angeny works its so unlikely thAt your going to have a player who's going to be with you 10+ years. And if I can get 5-7 good years out of a player I'm pretty happy. Name a googld player on our team who we drafted who has been with for 6+ years? Not many.


We are also talking about a defensive end, an elite defensive end is one of the highest paid position's in the NFL, second only to the QB.

Look at where the Ravens are right now: they have to resign flacco right now so they won't be able to bring back other guys like Kruger and Reed. However they draft really well so they can use Upshaw in Kruger's place and this years draft has a ton of Safties no one at Ed Reed Prime level but still good.

All I'm saying is that if you draft well a player walking away at 27 isn't a big thing.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:
Dessie wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Some people say that jones' back will last 5-7 years, well most rookie contracts are about 5 years. Who's to say that the guy will even be on our team in 6 years. This whole we draft a good guy and we'll have them for ten years thing is pretty dumb I mean most players don't even play for their drafted team their whole careers.

This is how you make a consistent competitor, you draft an elite player and then a year or two before their contracts up you draft their replacement. It's why the patriots, and the steelers and the ravens have been dominate teams.

So in other words I wouldn't hate the pick as long as we got those 5 years of elite play, odds are they'd be gone by year 6 anyway.


If we let the guy we draft at #3 go after his rookie contract, it will probably mean he wasn't worth the pick. Why would we let go of a 27 year old stud? The Steelers, Ravens or Patriots don't do that either.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, to name a few, were re-signed. They're letting go of players who were overated to begin with because they don't fall into the trap of overpaying for role players. They're willing to spend when they have to though.


Tough one, not sure the Texans would swap Mario Williams or the Dolphins Jake Long (if he doesn't resign) and they got 5 years out of a #1 pick.

At this point I would be glad to get 5/6 years play out of our 1st round pick.


+1... You named a few people, ray, mankins, wilfork, Ed reed, I'll throw another off the top of my head polamalu. .... Keep going? My point, in this day an age with how free Angeny works its so unlikely thAt your going to have a player who's going to be with you 10+ years. And if I can get 5-7 good years out of a player I'm pretty happy. Name a googld player on our team who we drafted who has been with for 6+ years? Not many.


We have drafted one all pro in the first round for the last decade. Off the top of my head, the only players who have been here for more than 5 years are Jano, Lechler, Kelly and Huff. Nnamdi got that second contract. Everybody else proved to be expendable during the course of their rookie contract. Just like Mario Williams did, btw. When you're drafting a DE #1 overall, you're expecting more than 2 seasons above 10 sacks. Jake Long will probably be allowed to walk away because his level of play took a nosedive lately.

So what i'm saying is our expectations should be very high for the #3 overall pick in the draft. This needs to be a homerun, not a guy where 5 years from now we have to adress the same need all over again for whatever reason.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb nailed it. Thats exactly what I've been thinking . I kind of hope we just trade down and take Warmack. Add a pass rusher or NT in the second. Gets us value and Warmack is the only guy who looks like a surefire homerun. We need to crush this pick.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:

Look at where the Ravens are right now: they have to resign flacco right now so they won't be able to bring back other guys like Kruger and Reed. However they draft really well so they can use Upshaw in Kruger's place and this years draft has a ton of Safties no one at Ed Reed Prime level but still good.


Kruger wasn't a first round pick. Kruger never even started a game before this year. He had a good season and it will lead to a big contract. It most likely won't be with the Ravens because they can live without, he's one of those overrated guys about to get overpaid.
I don't know what they're going to do about Reed but he's been with them for 11 years. I think they got their draft pick worth in return at this point.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:

Look at where the Ravens are right now: they have to resign flacco right now so they won't be able to bring back other guys like Kruger and Reed. However they draft really well so they can use Upshaw in Kruger's place and this years draft has a ton of Safties no one at Ed Reed Prime level but still good.


Kruger wasn't a first round pick. Kruger never even started a game before this year. He had a good season and it will lead to a big contract. It most likely won't be with the Ravens because they can live without, he's one of those overrated guys about to get overpaid.
I don't know what they're going to do about Reed but he's been with them for 11 years. I think they got their draft pick worth in return at this point.


There's also this guy named Suggs who is their best pass rusher. Who they drafted in the first round. And kept re-signing. The thing he's saying they didn't do
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
THE MAD STORK wrote:
Dessie wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Some people say that jones' back will last 5-7 years, well most rookie contracts are about 5 years. Who's to say that the guy will even be on our team in 6 years. This whole we draft a good guy and we'll have them for ten years thing is pretty dumb I mean most players don't even play for their drafted team their whole careers.

This is how you make a consistent competitor, you draft an elite player and then a year or two before their contracts up you draft their replacement. It's why the patriots, and the steelers and the ravens have been dominate teams.

So in other words I wouldn't hate the pick as long as we got those 5 years of elite play, odds are they'd be gone by year 6 anyway.


If we let the guy we draft at #3 go after his rookie contract, it will probably mean he wasn't worth the pick. Why would we let go of a 27 year old stud? The Steelers, Ravens or Patriots don't do that either.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, to name a few, were re-signed. They're letting go of players who were overated to begin with because they don't fall into the trap of overpaying for role players. They're willing to spend when they have to though.


Tough one, not sure the Texans would swap Mario Williams or the Dolphins Jake Long (if he doesn't resign) and they got 5 years out of a #1 pick.

At this point I would be glad to get 5/6 years play out of our 1st round pick.


+1... You named a few people, ray, mankins, wilfork, Ed reed, I'll throw another off the top of my head polamalu. .... Keep going? My point, in this day an age with how free Angeny works its so unlikely thAt your going to have a player who's going to be with you 10+ years. And if I can get 5-7 good years out of a player I'm pretty happy. Name a googld player on our team who we drafted who has been with for 6+ years? Not many.


We have drafted one all pro in the first round for the last decade. Off the top of my head, the only players who have been here for more than 5 years are Jano, Lechler, Kelly and Huff. Nnamdi got that second contract. Everybody else proved to be expendable during the course of their rookie contract. Just like Mario Williams did, btw. When you're drafting a DE #1 overall, you're expecting more than 2 seasons above 10 sacks. Jake Long will probably be allowed to walk away because his level of play took a nosedive lately.

So what i'm saying is our expectations should be very high for the #3 overall pick in the draft. This needs to be a homerun, not a guy where 5 years from now we have to adress the same need all over again for whatever reason.


Ignoring QBs if the Texans didn't take Mario Williams who should they have taken ? Who should the Dolphins have taken?
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:

Ignoring QBs if the Texans didn't take Mario Williams who should they have taken ? Who should the Dolphins have taken?


I'd rather not ignore QBs. Obviously, Matt Ryan for the Dolphins. Flacco looks good in hindsight but he wasn't quite worth it at the time.
Ngata or Ferguson for Houston.

But i'm not saying i knew who they should have taken back then, i'm saying you're getting your worth for those high picks when you're getting a decade long impact player. Drafting a guy whose career length is already in question is way too risky.
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones being "cleared" should be taken with a grain of salt. Obviously, we need to look into his health with our own doctors before making that big of an investment. Spinal stenosis is serious issue, not only for the future (which everyone is discussing), but even now. It should not be taken lightly. With that said, he's the only prospect I feel completely comfortable taking #3 based on his talent alone - and have felt that way for a few months now.

Here is what one scout thinks of Jones & him slipping on draft day:
Quote:
They said that Jones is a good guy and a good teammate, but just isn't a tireless worker.

"Don't get me wrong, if you watch his tapes you'll say he is worth being the No. 1 rated player and going in the top five of the draft. You can watch him on Saturdays and see that this guy is animal. He's clearly the best player on the field, but not a guy that you'll be in love with during the week. Add in the medical concern and with the testing, and I think he's going to slide some on Draft Day."

http://www.walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php

It's going to be interesting how things turn out. I think the article made an interesting point at the end in terms of overthinking things & teams missing out on good players due to injury concerns or bad combines:

Quote:
Jones could be a classic example of teams overthinking the draft process. Over the history of the draft, good players have slid because of an unnecessary medical concerns or not working out well at the Combine. If Jones plays in the NFL like he did at Georgia, he'll reward whomever takes him on Draft Day with plenty of teams feeling regret.


In other news, Geno Smith is going to fully participate in all of the drills in the Combine.
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Jones it still way too risky at our position, currently. If we move back somehow, it might look more appealing but as of now, I don't want anything to do w/ him even after reading that report.


How is he risky? This news is huge if true. He's the most talented pass rusher and defensive player from this draft by a good margin.


Oh, you know, that whole spinal condition thing LOL. I know you LOVE him and want him so badly but if you think just b/c one doctor says he's fine to play, w/ that major medical concern, you're just fooling yourself. He may be fine now but what about after 5-7 years of abuse? Nah, not the risk I want to take for a 3rd overall pick.

And I highly disagree w/ your last statement but I'm attributing that to bias so I am not going forth in discussion.


Doesn't Jones getting a clean bill of health mean that there shouldn't be any long term issues with his back? That's what I thought the breaking news meant. And this is probably the first time I've ever talked about wanting to draft Jones, so I'm not sure why you're acting like I'm biased. I've wanted to avoid him this entire time if his back is an issue...
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Anyone know of prospects we're linked to? It'd be cool to have another one of those thread that keeps track of our activity (that we know of) so we can see which ones we actually scouted in depth.

Being lucky enough to work at the Senior Bowl as well as the Draft Combine, we're literally linked to everybody. Our coaching staff is privileged enough to have more exposure to the prospects than all of the other teams.

The only time we might potentially hear names is at the combine when we give guys more in depth looks with 1-on-1 interviews.
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we pass on him he's going to be the next in a long line of guys that tear up the league that we regret not drafting.

He is the best football player in this draft. He is at a position of need. This is someone we can roll the dice on until we hear any report saying his injury will be a concern.
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Doesn't Jones getting a clean bill of health mean that there shouldn't be any long term issues with his back?

Not necessarily.

What exactly does being "cleared" mean? We don't know the exact prognosis the doctor gave. We don't know how many doctors examined his health.

It's definitely positive news, but I wouldn't count on it 100%, personally.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
He is the best football player in this draft. He is at a position of need. This is someone we can roll the dice on until we hear any report saying his injury will be a concern.


You want to roll the dice on a guy who reportedly isn't a hard worker and relies on athleticism and talent who has a spine condition? With the 3rd overall pick?


I don't.
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Doesn't Jones getting a clean bill of health mean that there shouldn't be any long term issues with his back?

Not necessarily.

What exactly does being "cleared" mean? We don't know the exact prognosis the doctor gave. We don't know how many doctors examined his health.

It's definitely positive news, but I wouldn't count on it 100%, personally.


A clean bill of health to me means that his back condition has healed. Why else would it be considered breaking news? If he still has his back condition, I don't see why it would be considered positive news that he's able to do what he's been doing at Georgia for the past few seasons.
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