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Raidin
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 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Looking at those few Matt Scott videos I wouldn't touch him until at least the 6th. One read and then run when he isn't open doesn't fill me with confidence. |
So you judge solely on what the coaches asked him to do?
If you watched his offseason workouts, he has live arm, good touch and accuracy with the ball. He will be developmental, but judge on what skills he possesses not what he was asked to do in college because obviously part of that development in the pros will be learning a teams offense, progressions, etc.
The important thing is he has all the skills you look for in a QB to develop. |
Why would coaches tell a player never to make reads if he was able to? There is no sense in that logic at all, I just can't imagine a coaches seeing a QB who can make reads but telling him never to do it. Far more likely they realised he can't do it so didn't ask him to. Personally I considered showing the ability to make even basic reads as an important skills needed in a QB. |
Athletic QB who ran the read option. Kaepernick did the same thing at Nevada. One read and run. Everyone questioned his ability to read a defense, etc. Good QB coaching in the pros and now look what SF has.
Point is spending a 4th round pick on a QB w/ all the tools and developing them is a good play. Saying you'd not spend anything over a 6th (he won't last past the 4th) because of the offense he ran in college is just meh.
Skills for the positions trump the offense in college. Can he make all the throws, yes. Showed good footwork in offseason drills. Recognized as a great leader at AZ. That is the stuff I want in a QB. Let the coaches teach him the system. |
Kaepernick was taller, bigger and faster. If Scott had great size and speed I'd be more impressed. If I felt he could burn defenders then it wound't be as bad, Scot isn't burning anyone with his 4.69 speed. Scott can't run the read option in the NFL, he'd be broken in two if he tried. No one knows if Kaepernick can be a pure pocket passer, but he doesn't need to be. Kaep also made a few more reads in college then I've seen from Scott.
As I said, he's never shown an important skill needed for a pocket passer, that's not something I am willing to ignore.
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Looking at those few Matt Scott videos I wouldn't touch him until at least the 6th. One read and then run when he isn't open doesn't fill me with confidence. |
So you judge solely on what the coaches asked him to do?
If you watched his offseason workouts, he has live arm, good touch and accuracy with the ball. He will be developmental, but judge on what skills he possesses not what he was asked to do in college because obviously part of that development in the pros will be learning a teams offense, progressions, etc.
The important thing is he has all the skills you look for in a QB to develop. |
Why would coaches tell a player never to make reads if he was able to? There is no sense in that logic at all, I just can't imagine a coaches seeing a QB who can make reads but telling him never to do it. Far more likely they realised he can't do it so didn't ask him to. Personally I considered showing the ability to make even basic reads as an important skills needed in a QB. |
Athletic QB who ran the read option. Kaepernick did the same thing at Nevada. One read and run. Everyone questioned his ability to read a defense, etc. Good QB coaching in the pros and now look what SF has.
Point is spending a 4th round pick on a QB w/ all the tools and developing them is a good play. Saying you'd not spend anything over a 6th (he won't last past the 4th) because of the offense he ran in college is just meh.
Skills for the positions trump the offense in college. Can he make all the throws, yes. Showed good footwork in offseason drills. Recognized as a great leader at AZ. That is the stuff I want in a QB. Let the coaches teach him the system. |
Yup. Cam had an even easier offense at Auburn. Pryor ran an extremely dumbed down, 1 read "pro" style offense.
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Looking at those few Matt Scott videos I wouldn't touch him until at least the 6th. One read and then run when he isn't open doesn't fill me with confidence. |
So you judge solely on what the coaches asked him to do?
If you watched his offseason workouts, he has live arm, good touch and accuracy with the ball. He will be developmental, but judge on what skills he possesses not what he was asked to do in college because obviously part of that development in the pros will be learning a teams offense, progressions, etc.
The important thing is he has all the skills you look for in a QB to develop. |
Why would coaches tell a player never to make reads if he was able to? There is no sense in that logic at all, I just can't imagine a coaches seeing a QB who can make reads but telling him never to do it. Far more likely they realised he can't do it so didn't ask him to. Personally I considered showing the ability to make even basic reads as an important skills needed in a QB. |
Athletic QB who ran the read option. Kaepernick did the same thing at Nevada. One read and run. Everyone questioned his ability to read a defense, etc. Good QB coaching in the pros and now look what SF has.
Point is spending a 4th round pick on a QB w/ all the tools and developing them is a good play. Saying you'd not spend anything over a 6th (he won't last past the 4th) because of the offense he ran in college is just meh.
Skills for the positions trump the offense in college. Can he make all the throws, yes. Showed good footwork in offseason drills. Recognized as a great leader at AZ. That is the stuff I want in a QB. Let the coaches teach him the system. |
Kaepernick was taller, bigger and faster. If Scott had great size and speed I'd be more impressed. If I felt he could burn defenders then it wound't be as bad, Scot isn't burning anyone with his 4.69 speed. Scott can't run the read option in the NFL, he'd be broken in two if he tried. No one knows if Kaepernick can be a pure pocket passer, but he doesn't need to be. Kaep also made a few more reads in college then I've seen from Scott.
As I said, he's never shown an important skill needed for a pocket passer, that's not something I am willing to ignore. |
It's just their system. Foles ran the same offense.
IDC if he can run the read option (Same size as RG3 btw). Dude can throw, and has the ability to run if he needs to. Ran the same 40 as Luck that's good enough for me. Also ran one of the fastest 3 cone at the combine for a QB ever, which shows how quick he is.
He's perfect for a mid round developmental project. As myself and BP stated, he'd sit behind Palmer for a year or two, but he definitely has the smarts to learn an NFL offense, make reads etc...Usually mid/late round QB's drafted aren't ready to start day one, but he has the tools to be successful.
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OakRaiders3828
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DOCLEW 28
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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That is a meidum range project in terms of the time it will take to get him to a point where he can start for you.
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Raidin
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| OakRaiders3828 wrote: |
It's just their system. Foles ran the same offense.
IDC if he can run the read option (Same size as RG3 btw). Dude can throw, and has the ability to run if he needs to. Ran the same 40 as Luck that's good enough for me. Also ran one of the fastest 3 cone at the combine for a QB ever, which shows how quick he is.
He's perfect for a mid round developmental project. As myself and BP stated, he'd sit behind Palmer for a year or two, but he definitely has the smarts to learn an NFL offense, make reads etc...Usually mid/late round QB's drafted aren't ready to start day one, but he has the tools to be successful. |
He's lighter than RG III and the fact RG III has already been broken into two doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Luck showed before he was drafted he actually make a read and go through progressions. Making reads has little to do with smarts, it's very hard to teach someone to be good at making reads. 3 cone doesn't really show quickness, certainly not in terms of being able to run away from players.
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OakRaiders3828
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | OakRaiders3828 wrote: |
It's just their system. Foles ran the same offense.
IDC if he can run the read option (Same size as RG3 btw). Dude can throw, and has the ability to run if he needs to. Ran the same 40 as Luck that's good enough for me. Also ran one of the fastest 3 cone at the combine for a QB ever, which shows how quick he is.
He's perfect for a mid round developmental project. As myself and BP stated, he'd sit behind Palmer for a year or two, but he definitely has the smarts to learn an NFL offense, make reads etc...Usually mid/late round QB's drafted aren't ready to start day one, but he has the tools to be successful. |
He's lighter than RG III and the fact RG III has already been broken into two doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Luck showed before he was drafted he actually make a read and go through progressions. Making reads has little to do with smarts, it's very hard to teach someone to be good at making reads. 3 cone doesn't really show quickness, certainly not in terms of being able to run away from players. |
To me, this isn't important when I'm drafting a QB. He has enough mobility, can make plays with his feet and scramble when needed. I've seen it on film and seen it on the stat sheet. I don't need him to be an olympic sprinter. I agree he'll take some time, and it's also important to state that he showed potential in Mike Stoops system (prior to Rodriguez) where he was asked to make more reads, and it's not like he was never required to make more than one read, even in an offense like his, every QB has progressions in case the first read gets covered, I've seen videos of him mic'd up where the coach says something to him along the lines of "you should've hit your first read, he was open" but he threw to his second, so it's not like he has no clue how to go through progressions.
Like I said, it's a project, hence the mid round pick, and I think he'll take at least one year because I agree it won't be what he's used to, which is why I said if we take him we should keep Palmer (or sign Kolb or something). If a team invests in him, it will pay off. Just my opinion.
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OakRaiders3828
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Another mid round pass rusher that dominated his level of competition is David Bass, DE Missouri Western State.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1888780/david-bass
I like him, Quanterus Smith and Joe Kruger as mid to late round picks who can play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB and rush the passer.
Kruger is a good all around, versatile DE who has a relentless motor and a hard worker. Perfect Reggie late round pick.
Also love me some Okafor in the 2nd if we can get a pick there. If Moore takes a fall into the second I'd be all over him there.
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DOCLEW 28
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Looking at those few Matt Scott videos I wouldn't touch him until at least the 6th. One read and then run when he isn't open doesn't fill me with confidence. |
So you judge solely on what the coaches asked him to do?
The important thing is he has all the skills you look for in a QB to develop. |
I would evaluate him on his game film and not workouts.
But I do agree with the 2nd sentence.
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DOCLEW 28
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting that we really only have three DT's and they are all fairly young
Cristo Bilukidi - 23
Vance Walker - 25
Pat Sims - 27
If we get rid of Kelly then I can see us drafting another one at some point in the draft.
This position is so deep that we really don't have to reach early. We can get a quality DT well into the 3rd or 4th round depending on whether the position goes on a run in there somewhere. So I really look forward to seeing us come out of the draft with another one. And maybe 2 or 3 picked up as UDFA's.
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OakRaiders3828
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Trade with Miami for their 1st, 2nd and 4th round picks.
1st: Star Lotuleli, DT Utah
2nd: Jamar Taylor, CB Boise St.
3rd: Jamie Collins, DE/OLB Southern Miss
4th: Mike Gillislee, RB Florida
4th: Matt Scott, QB Arizona
6th: Joe Kruger, DE Utah
6th: Daimion Stafford, FS Nebraska
7th: Quanterus Smith, DE Western Kentucky
7th: Luke Marquardt, OT Azusa Pacific
Keep in mind I still have us signing a RT, DE, OG, S and CB in FA.
Roster:
QB: Carson palmer, Matt Scott, Terrelle Pryor
HB: Darren McFadden, Mike Gillislee, Jeremy Stewart
FB: Marcel Reece, Jamize Olawale
WR: Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Duke Calhoun
WR: Rod Streater, Mohammed Massaquoi, Jacoby Ford, Travionte Session
TE: Cameron Morrah, David Ausberry, Richard Gordon
LT: Jared Veldheer, Luke Marquardt, Zach Hurd
LG: Mike Brisiel, Tony Bergstrom
OC: Stefen Wisnewski, Alex Parsons
RG: Kevin Boothe, Lucas Nix
RT: Sebastian Vollmer, Tony Bergstrom
DE: Lamar Houston, Joe Kruger
NT: Pat Sims, Christo Bilukidi
UT: Star Lotuleli, Vance Walker
DE: Jason Hunter, Kyle Moore, Quanterus Smith
OLB: Kevin Burnett, Jamie Collins
MLB: Nick Roach, Omar Gaither
OLB: Miles Burris, Kaluka Maiava, Kaelin Burnett
CB: Terrence Newman, Philip Adams, Coye Francies/Taiwan Jones
SS: Tyvon Branch
FS: Jordan Babineaux, Daimion Stafford
CB: Jamar Taylor, Brandian Ross, Chimdi Chekwa
K: Sebastian Janikowski
P: Marquette King
LS: Jon Condo
1. This was thrown together in roughly 5 minutes
2. Still have needs at Safety, TE, MLB depth, WR and RB depth IMO, but it's a start.
3. This is obviously not accounting for UDFA's.
4. Maybe a little unrealistic, but hey, mock is basically another word for "not gonna happen"
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Last edited by OakRaiders3828 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:54 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Raidin
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Going well until Matt Scott.  Would be happy with Star at #3, I think he's my favourite if his heart is fine.
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Dessie
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | Going well until Matt Scott. Would be happy with Star at #3, I think he's my favourite if his heart is fine. |
Is Star enough of a playmaker to be taken at #3 ?
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| bitty wrote: | I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked. |
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justwinbaby81
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice as far as I'm concerned. If we would end up with Vollmer and Star I will consider this off-season a major win.
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justwinbaby81
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dessie wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Going well until Matt Scott. Would be happy with Star at #3, I think he's my favourite if his heart is fine. |
Is Star enough of a playmaker to be taken at #3 ? |
He traded down, but yes he is worth it at #3.
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