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RG3 and the passing game must improve
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: RG3 and the passing game must improve Reply with quote

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/06/redskins-will-tempt-fate-without-better-passing-game-in-2013/

If we are going to continue to get better as an offense and team, RG3 and the passing offense must improve. Our passing offense dropped from 14th to 20th from 2011 to 2012 even with an upgrade at the qb position. We ranked 21st in the NFL in sacks given up per pass play despite rg3's elusiveness and we didn't have a WR who scared anyone, although the reason for that is also because we ran the ball so much and we had injuries to Garcon and Davis.

Quote:
The biggest reason is that the Redskins were so effective on the ground with rookie running back Alfred Morris and Griffin in their zone read scheme that they threw the ball just 442 times – 25 percent fewer than the league average of 556. Only Super Bowl champion San Francisco and Seattle, which ended Washington’s season in the wild card round, attempted fewer passes.

The Redskins also lacked a receiver who scared opposing defenses, especially once tight end Fred Davis was lost for the season during the first quarter of Week 7 after catching 24 passes for 325 yards. While veteran receiver Santana Moss tied for 15th in the NFL with eight touchdown catches, Washington didn’t have a player among the top 50 in catches or receiving yards. Wideouts Josh Morgan (48 catches) and Pierre Garcon (44) led the team, finishing 40th and tied for 46th in the NFC, respectively. Garcon (633 receiving yards), Moss (573), second-year receiver Leonard Hankerson (543) and Morgan (510) gave the Redskins a quartet of 500-yard pass-catchers, but they ranked just 37th, 39th, 44th and 46th in the conference, respectively.

Also, despite Griffin’s elusiveness and a surprisingly strong season by an offensive line led by newly-minted Pro Bowl left tackle Trent Williams, Washington ranked just 21st in sacks allowed per pass.

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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: RG3 and the passing game must improve Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/06/redskins-will-tempt-fate-without-better-passing-game-in-2013/

If we are going to continue to get better as an offense and team, RG3 and the passing offense must improve. Our passing offense dropped from 14th to 20th from 2011 to 2012 even with an upgrade at the qb position. We ranked 21st in the NFL in sacks given up per pass play despite rg3's elusiveness and we didn't have a WR who scared anyone, although the reason for that is also because we ran the ball so much and we had injuries to Garcon and Davis.

Quote:
The biggest reason is that the Redskins were so effective on the ground with rookie running back Alfred Morris and Griffin in their zone read scheme that they threw the ball just 442 times – 25 percent fewer than the league average of 556. Only Super Bowl champion San Francisco and Seattle, which ended Washington’s season in the wild card round, attempted fewer passes.

The Redskins also lacked a receiver who scared opposing defenses, especially once tight end Fred Davis was lost for the season during the first quarter of Week 7 after catching 24 passes for 325 yards. While veteran receiver Santana Moss tied for 15th in the NFL with eight touchdown catches, Washington didn’t have a player among the top 50 in catches or receiving yards. Wideouts Josh Morgan (48 catches) and Pierre Garcon (44) led the team, finishing 40th and tied for 46th in the NFC, respectively. Garcon (633 receiving yards), Moss (573), second-year receiver Leonard Hankerson (543) and Morgan (510) gave the Redskins a quartet of 500-yard pass-catchers, but they ranked just 37th, 39th, 44th and 46th in the conference, respectively.

Also, despite Griffin’s elusiveness and a surprisingly strong season by an offensive line led by newly-minted Pro Bowl left tackle Trent Williams, Washington ranked just 21st in sacks allowed per pass.


I agree. We need to improve in every area.

BTW - were you laughing at the bolded as much as I?
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we were 4th in avg pts per game --isn't that the only important thing.. Does it matter how you got it to the end zone ?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I think we were 4th in avg pts per game --isn't that the only important thing.. Does it matter how you got it to the end zone ?
well rg3 being a major part of our rushing offense is not sustainable over the long term. Our passing game must improve and our OL (mainly Rt) must be better at pass blocking
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: RG3 and the passing game must improve Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/06/redskins-will-tempt-fate-without-better-passing-game-in-2013/

If we are going to continue to get better as an offense and team, RG3 and the passing offense must improve. Our passing offense dropped from 14th to 20th from 2011 to 2012 even with an upgrade at the qb position. We ranked 21st in the NFL in sacks given up per pass play despite rg3's elusiveness and we didn't have a WR who scared anyone, although the reason for that is also because we ran the ball so much and we had injuries to Garcon and Davis.

Quote:
The biggest reason is that the Redskins were so effective on the ground with rookie running back Alfred Morris and Griffin in their zone read scheme that they threw the ball just 442 times – 25 percent fewer than the league average of 556. Only Super Bowl champion San Francisco and Seattle, which ended Washington’s season in the wild card round, attempted fewer passes.

The Redskins also lacked a receiver who scared opposing defenses, especially once tight end Fred Davis was lost for the season during the first quarter of Week 7 after catching 24 passes for 325 yards. While veteran receiver Santana Moss tied for 15th in the NFL with eight touchdown catches, Washington didn’t have a player among the top 50 in catches or receiving yards. Wideouts Josh Morgan (48 catches) and Pierre Garcon (44) led the team, finishing 40th and tied for 46th in the NFC, respectively. Garcon (633 receiving yards), Moss (573), second-year receiver Leonard Hankerson (543) and Morgan (510) gave the Redskins a quartet of 500-yard pass-catchers, but they ranked just 37th, 39th, 44th and 46th in the conference, respectively.

Also, despite Griffin’s elusiveness and a surprisingly strong season by an offensive line led by newly-minted Pro Bowl left tackle Trent Williams, Washington ranked just 21st in sacks allowed per pass.


I agree. We need to improve in every area.

BTW - were you laughing at the bolded as much as I?
ha! Laughing I scanned past that. Good catch Thai. You don't miss much Wink
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aceinthehouse


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is one of the reasons ,Turtle (and others) I've been beating the drum over & over & over.

We need to target one of the blue chip WR's who are available as UFA's.

Whomever the coaches believe fits best.
Be it Mike Wallace
DeWayne Bowe
Gregg Jennings
or whatever true #1 or great #2, that will be available this FA. (maybe someone after cuts?)
I don't know.

But we need a true stud, to pair up with Pierre Garcon.
This will not only improve the threat of our passing game, but allow insurance in case Garcon or other WR goes down.

Cause we know how bad, or at least our record without Garcon was, right?

Will it or could it take some maneuvering of the cap to make it happen?
Probably will.

But you have to take advantage of the quality of experience & young WR's on the market at this time. Will there be any next season? Who knows, but it's no guarantee.

Some of you say "draft one".
Really?
And how long will he be ready to catapult himself up the #1 or #2 role?
1 yr?
2yrs?
3yrs?
Cause WR usually takes time; to develop, if they ever do.

Listen...we get back 18M in 2014.
So whatever big contract we offer to someone this season, can have a relatively low number for this 2013. When 2014 rolls around, their expected cap number will go up but so will our cap room.

We have to go after a premier stud Blue Chip WR...THIS Free Agency!

We would be lethal with ?HIM? & Garcon side-by-side.

We can restructure, Hall & Moss(or cut)
cut J. Brown
give Orakpo a longterm "new" deal NOW, and make the 2013 cap number low. (he'll be a FA in 2014)

Maybe we make some hard decisions like letting Rex Grossman go and draft his replacement in the late rds. (while RG3 recovers if on PUP list)?

Or maybe we let Fred Davis walk? (if he wants too big a deal)
We have Logan and Niles. maybe we keep Cooley another yr or draft a TE if needed?

Either way, we get a stud WR
We make it happen.

If RG3 is not going to be able to run around like before?

Then we damn well, better get him a stud Target! besides Garcon.

WR core could look like this...

#1) WR=DeWayne Bowe, Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings,etc
#2) WR Pierre Garcon
#3) WR Santana Moss (restructured)
#4) WR L. Hankerson
#5) WR Josh Morgan
#6) WR Aldrick Robinson

if we carry #7
Briscoe or Draftee rookie
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Which is one of the reasons ,Turtle (and others) I've been beating the drum over & over & over.

We need to target one of the blue chip WR's who are available as UFA's.

Whomever the coaches believe fits best.
Be it Mike Wallace
DeWayne Bowe
Gregg Jennings
or whatever true #1 or great #2, that will be available this FA. (maybe someone after cuts?)
I don't know.

But we need a true stud, to pair up with Pierre Garcon.
This will not only improve the threat of our passing game, but allow insurance in case Garcon or other WR goes down.

Cause we know how bad, or at least our record without Garcon was, right?

Will it or could it take some maneuvering of the cap to make it happen?
Probably will.

But you have to take advantage of the quality of experience & young WR's on the market at this time. Will there be any next season? Who knows, but it's no guarantee.

Some of you say "draft one".
Really?
And how long will he be ready to catapult himself up the #1 or #2 role?
1 yr?
2yrs?
3yrs?
Cause WR usually takes time; to develop, if they ever do.

Listen...we get back 18M in 2014.
So whatever big contract we offer to someone this season, can have a relatively low number for this 2013. When 2014 rolls around, their expected cap number will go up but so will our cap room.

We have to go after a premier stud Blue Chip WR...THIS Free Agency!

We would be lethal with ?HIM? & Garcon side-by-side.

We can restructure, Hall & Moss(or cut)
cut J. Brown
give Orakpo a longterm "new" deal NOW, and make the 2013 cap number low. (he'll be a FA in 2014)

Maybe we make some hard decisions like letting Rex Grossman go and draft his replacement in the late rds. (while RG3 recovers if on PUP list)?

Or maybe we let Fred Davis walk? (if he wants too big a deal)
We have Logan and Niles. maybe we keep Cooley another yr or draft a TE if needed?

Either way, we get a stud WR
We make it happen.

If RG3 is not going to be able to run around like before?

Then we damn well, better get him a stud Target! besides Garcon.

WR core could look like this...

#1) WR=DeWayne Bowe, Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings,etc
#2) WR Pierre Garcon
#3) WR Santana Moss (restructured)
#4) WR L. Hankerson
#5) WR Josh Morgan
#6) WR Aldrick Robinson

if we carry #7
Briscoe or Draftee rookie
we don't have the cap space for that buddy. Our DB upgrades are more important.

We can't afford to pay that much for a wr group. We have a decent group, we have good wrs just no great one. I think we have the players currently to have a very good passing offense we just need to throw the ball more and we have to stay healthy. We also have to protect rg3 better. We do those things and our passing offense will be near top 10.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aceinthehouse


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turtle, I think we can pull it off.

We don't have a #1 pick to draft & sign. That will help keep the cost down.

We have restructures & cuts that can and probably need to be made, that will give us anywhere from 15-20M in extra cap space.

Why can't we sign a blue chipper?

Hypothetically
Lets say we sign DeWayne Bowe to 4 yr-45M dollar deal
25M guaranteed?
(cause Bowe know's, he can probably get 1 more deal, when he turns 32)

Bowe
---------------------------------------
Salary:
-------------------
YR1: 2.5M---YR2: 5.5M---YR3: 6M---YR4: 6M
Bonus:
-------------------
YR1: 6.25M---YR2:6.25---YR3:6.25---YR4:6.25

Total:
YR1: 8.75---YR2: 11.75M---YR3: 12.25M---YR4: 12.25

Lets say the restructuring and cuts gets us 20M before the draft and before any re-signings?

We would still be 11.25M under the cap to resign what we need here, W/Bowe now on the roster.
And draftees to sign

We can do this.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Which is one of the reasons ,Turtle (and others) I've been beating the drum over & over & over.

We need to target one of the blue chip WR's who are available as UFA's.

Whomever the coaches believe fits best.
Be it Mike Wallace
DeWayne Bowe
Gregg Jennings
or whatever true #1 or great #2, that will be available this FA. (maybe someone after cuts?)
I don't know.

But we need a true stud, to pair up with Pierre Garcon.
This will not only improve the threat of our passing game, but allow insurance in case Garcon or other WR goes down.

Cause we know how bad, or at least our record without Garcon was, right?

Will it or could it take some maneuvering of the cap to make it happen?
Probably will.

But you have to take advantage of the quality of experience & young WR's on the market at this time. Will there be any next season? Who knows, but it's no guarantee.

Some of you say "draft one".
Really?
And how long will he be ready to catapult himself up the #1 or #2 role?
1 yr?
2yrs?
3yrs?
Cause WR usually takes time; to develop, if they ever do.

Listen...we get back 18M in 2014.
So whatever big contract we offer to someone this season, can have a relatively low number for this 2013. When 2014 rolls around, their expected cap number will go up but so will our cap room.

We have to go after a premier stud Blue Chip WR...THIS Free Agency!

We would be lethal with ?HIM? & Garcon side-by-side.

We can restructure, Hall & Moss(or cut)
cut J. Brown
give Orakpo a longterm "new" deal NOW, and make the 2013 cap number low. (he'll be a FA in 2014)

Maybe we make some hard decisions like letting Rex Grossman go and draft his replacement in the late rds. (while RG3 recovers if on PUP list)?

Or maybe we let Fred Davis walk? (if he wants too big a deal)
We have Logan and Niles. maybe we keep Cooley another yr or draft a TE if needed?

Either way, we get a stud WR
We make it happen.

If RG3 is not going to be able to run around like before?

Then we damn well, better get him a stud Target! besides Garcon.

WR core could look like this...

#1) WR=DeWayne Bowe, Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings,etc
#2) WR Pierre Garcon
#3) WR Santana Moss (restructured)
#4) WR L. Hankerson
#5) WR Josh Morgan
#6) WR Aldrick Robinson

if we carry #7
Briscoe or Draftee rookie
we don't have the cap space for that buddy.


Well, we don't need Santana if we do that -- saves us several million.. I tend to agree we need one more really good wideout. I think we can manufacture enough cap space with our genius lawyers.
The passing game ..IF and it's a big one , we resign Davis and IF he's 100% and Garcon is healthy and we add one of those guys --then we're pretty well set.
I still think we'll let Davis walk and draft a T E .. round 4 or 5 maybe
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Turtle, I think we can pull it off.

We don't have a #1 pick to draft & sign. That will help keep the cost down.

We have restructures & cuts that can and probably need to be made, that will give us anywhere from 15-20M in extra cap space.

Why can't we sign a blue chipper?

Hypothetically
Lets say we sign DeWayne Bowe to 4 yr-45M dollar deal
25M guaranteed?
(cause Bowe know's, he can probably get 1 more deal, when he turns 32)

Bowe
---------------------------------------
Salary:
-------------------
YR1: 2.5M---YR2: 5.5M---YR3: 6M---YR4: 6M
Bonus:
-------------------
YR1: 6.25M---YR2:6.25---YR3:6.25---YR4:6.25

Total:
YR1: 8.75---YR2: 11.75M---YR3: 12.25M---YR4: 12.25

Lets say the restructuring and cuts gets us 20M before the draft and before any re-signings?

We would still be 11.25M under the cap to resign what we need here, W/Bowe now on the roster.
And draftees to sign

We can do this.
we are over the cap. We need DBs. I doubt we pull it off. The only way it happens that we get a real #1 wr is if Moss is gone for sure which is definitely worth it, and even then I don't think it's possible. Then we'd have to cut Hall, Fletcher and rework some contracts.

We pay Garcon and Morgan like starters, they are our starters
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Last edited by turtle28 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't it say something though--that two of the really good teams threw the ball less than us.. ? S F and Seattle.
Seems to me it says --You can run,,and WIN !
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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We ran the ball a lot, so ranking 20th in passing is quite normal.

I like Davis, but I wish we had a big TE, like Gronko, Witten, Gonzales. Then another top WR would not be a need. I don't think Paulsen will ever get near to them.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
We ran the ball a lot, so ranking 20th in passing is quite normal.

I like Davis, but I wish we had a big TE, like Gronko, Witten, Gonzales. Then another top WR would not be a need. I don't think Paulsen will ever get near to them.
Fred Davis isnt that much smaller than those TEs,
what an inch.. maybe two? Davis is faster than the three of them. Paulsen is also about their size.

If we didnt have a slary cap and other positions to worry about maybe we could make that happen.

Is a big TE or paying top dollar for one of those wide receivers more important than having a FS who can cover up our cbs mistakes and keep from us giving up huge plays like we did last year?

I don't think it is. I think we have a good stable of playmakers on offense, we just need to get them healthy, they need to stay healthy, we need to throw the ball more and rg3 needs to be protected better.

We may not have had a true #1 wr last year but we had 4 reliable targets at wr and we proved to have two reliable targets at TE, not many teams can say they have all that.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Geronimo pointed out, if you are 30th in the league in attempts per game, then it's not that surprising if you are lower in yards per game.

Let's look at a different number: yards per attempt.

Washington = 8.3 YPA (1st)
San Francisco = 8.1 YPA (2nd)
Seattle = 8.0 YPA (3rd-T)

All three teams didn't pass much, but when they did, they were extremely efficient in doing so.

So, no, I don't think we have to really worry about the passing game all that much. I do think this was a really poor article by Danny Elfin, though.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
As Geronimo pointed out, if you are 30th in the league in attempts per game, then it's not that surprising if you are lower in yards per game.

Let's look at a different number: yards per attempt.

Washington = 8.3 YPA (1st)
San Francisco = 8.1 YPA (2nd)
Seattle = 8.0 YPA (3rd-T)

All three teams didn't pass much, but when they did, they were extremely efficient in doing so.

So, no, I don't think we have to really worry about the passing game all that much. I do think this was a really poor article by Danny Elfin, though.
i think we have to worry about two things with our passing game, throwing the ball more often and protecting Griffin better because if we want Griffin around for the next decade + healthy, we will have to do those things. So, if we get an upgrade at RT and we run less designed running plays for Griffin, we should accomplish those things.

If we throw the ball more and Garcon is healthy, I think you see him catching 70+ passes and over 1000 yds with more TDs. If Davis is healthy you can double his #s and if we throw more obviously, Morgan, Moss and Hankerson would have more receptions as well.
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