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Hot Topic: Would we cut Levi Brown?
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 789
Location: Mesa, AZ
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Hot Topic: Would we cut Levi Brown? Reply with quote

The main topic I see around lately is that many think we'll draft a LT at pick #7 this year and we'll in turn, cut Levi Brown.

Now, khodder or champ, correct me if I am wrong with my line of thinking here but... the savings isn't that great.



Levi was guaranteed $8M and received that amount in it's entirety in the 2012 season. $7M signing bonus minus $1M in base salary is that amount.

One would think we could be free and clear of Levi, but the signing bonus is prorated through years 2013 to 2016 as you can see. Cutting Levi would accelerate the remaining signing bonus from 2013 through 2016 plus half the workout bonuses remaining, which is $500,000, into the cap hit for 2013 and results in a $6,100,000 hit versus his current projected $6,400,000 cap hit for 2013.

Unless my calculations are wrong, Levi is here for at least another year as the savings would be better versus the 2014 contract year of the deal
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Levi made 8M last year for doing absolutely nothing? Jeez... Btw I think he'll be the starting LT next year.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4222
Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
So Levi made 8M last year for doing absolutely nothing? Jeez... Btw I think he'll be the starting LT next year.


Anything is better than Batiste. I've never seen a worse veteran offensive lineman play on this team.
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Chg91


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forget the specifics, but I do remember that Levi's extension was worked out so that he can be cut without any type of cap hit after the first season. We save his entire cap number.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irobot your figures are correct if it was a signing bonus.

Chq91, do you think it was a roster bonus? In that case you are right.
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khodder


Moderator - MVP
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chg91 wrote:
I forget the specifics, but I do remember that Levi's extension was worked out so that he can be cut without any type of cap hit after the first season. We save his entire cap number.


It will all depend on how the bonus he was paid was accounted for on the cap. It is possible that the bonus hit the cap in 2012 entirely which would mean there is no dead money and no guaranteed money left if we cut him. However if the bonus he was paid was prorated over 5 years then we are not going to save a lot if he is cut.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
Chg91 wrote:
I forget the specifics, but I do remember that Levi's extension was worked out so that he can be cut without any type of cap hit after the first season. We save his entire cap number.


It will all depend on how the bonus he was paid was accounted for on the cap. It is possible that the bonus hit the cap in 2012 entirely which would mean there is no dead money and no guaranteed money left if we cut him. However if the bonus he was paid was prorated over 5 years then we are not going to save a lot if he is cut.


From Urban:

Quote:
As for the guys already on the roster, the 2013 salary cap numbers for the four vets are as follows: Brown $7.65M, Colledge $7.3M, Snyder $4M, Sendlein $3.1M. (And before you ask, the “dead” money if those players were released would be $5.6M, $4.5M, $4M and $2.1M, respectively.)


http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/02/05/the-pieces-of-the-offensive-line/
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 452
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So - if we cut him going into this year that's 6.1M vs. 6.4M (300K saved) this coming season. If we wait to cut him next season that'll be 4.575M vs. 7.65M (3.075M saved).

Here's the thing though - if we cut him this year, then next year we'd save the entire 7.65M instead of just 3.075M if we wait to cut him until then. My opinion is whenever the coaches determine that they want to cut a guy based on value they should just go and get it over with (as long as it doesn't cause us to go over the cap that season).

I think we should keep a Levi that is performing like he did in the latter half of 2011 around though. His pass protection was much better during that period and his run blocking has consistently been excellent. All that and he didn't have great pass or run blocking all along the line with him. That said we'll have to see his performance coming off of the injury - I like the term cautiously optimistic with Levi.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
khodder wrote:
Chg91 wrote:
I forget the specifics, but I do remember that Levi's extension was worked out so that he can be cut without any type of cap hit after the first season. We save his entire cap number.


It will all depend on how the bonus he was paid was accounted for on the cap. It is possible that the bonus hit the cap in 2012 entirely which would mean there is no dead money and no guaranteed money left if we cut him. However if the bonus he was paid was prorated over 5 years then we are not going to save a lot if he is cut.


From Urban:

Quote:
As for the guys already on the roster, the 2013 salary cap numbers for the four vets are as follows: Brown $7.65M, Colledge $7.3M, Snyder $4M, Sendlein $3.1M. (And before you ask, the “dead” money if those players were released would be $5.6M, $4.5M, $4M and $2.1M, respectively.)


http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/02/05/the-pieces-of-the-offensive-line/


If the $5.6M figure is correct, which I assume it is, then that means it's the signing bonus accelerated to this year.
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot see the point in cutting him till at least July.

We have FA, the Draft and then OTAs first.

He is still technically our best OL, if the coaches like him, then he stays, if they dont, he gets a pay cut or goes.

At least we have options.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
I cannot see the point in cutting him till at least July.

We have FA, the Draft and then OTAs first.

He is still technically our best OL, if the coaches like him, then he stays, if they dont, he gets a pay cut or goes.

At least we have options.


Exactly, no reason to even discuss him being cut because none of his pay is guaranteed anymore.

If they decide the cap relief in future years is more important than the services he provides then that will be decided before the season begins.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was holding out hope he could improve his foot-speed but I don't think it's possible. Just have to help him out on that side in pass-pro... He had brick feet so it was clear he couldn't be an NFL tackle unless he suddenly evolved into a better athlete.

Quote:
Davis Measurables
6' 6" 350lbs
40 Yard Dash: 5.32 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 3.11 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.86 seconds
Bench Press: 33 reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 28.0 inches
Broad Jump: 105 inches
Shuttle: 5.18
Three Cone: 8.20

Brown Measurables
6' 6" 323
40 Yard Dash: 5.40 seconds
20 Yard Dash: 3.09 seconds
10 Yard Dash: 1.84 seconds
Bench Press: 31 reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 25.5 inches
Broad Jump: 97 inches
Shuttle: 4.89
Three Cone: 7.87


At least Big Leonard was a physical freak who's talent warranted a top 5 pick... SMDH @ the Cards' war room.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
At least Big Leonard was a physical freak who's talent warranted a top 5 pick... SMDH @ the Cards' war room.


Uh, not really. The keys for these big guys and how well they can move their feet are the shuttle and 3 cone times, both of which Levi was far better.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
At least Big Leonard was a physical freak who's talent warranted a top 5 pick... SMDH @ the Cards' war room.


Uh, not really. The keys for these big guys and how well they can move their feet are the shuttle and 3 cone times, both of which Levi was far better.


Davis had 25+ pounds... Plus he had the agility to play OG at a high level.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodwin was just interviewed on KTAR and he said Levi will be here next year and likely playing tackle. I'll post it when the podcast cones up. Wolf asked if Levi can play RG and he gave a confirmed/denied answer.
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