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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: elliot878 Mock #2 Reply with quote

Here's a quick one guys. Maybe quick, but I've thought it through some, and am sticking with realism, no matter how painful it may seem. I'll mention a few of our free agents, only significant signings and walks.

Franchise or Extend Ryan Clady - It'll be one or the other. Either way he's not leaving so I'm not going to bother specifying.

Re-sign Justin Bannan & Brandon Stokley - Both Bannan and Stokley will be back for sure. Bannan was sneaky good this year, and he's a Colorado guy who will probably not be a difficult re-sign. Stokley isn't leaving Manning.

Re-sign David Bruton - Special teams captain, and wont cost more than a million.

Sign Britton Colquitt, and Chris Clark to RFA tenders - The punters not going anywhere, and Chris Clark is developing into a decent backup tackle whose used as a 6th blocker on occasion.

Sign Mitch Unrein and Tony Carter to ERFA tenders - Unrein is becoming a solid rotational piece, and has carved out a role as a goal line fullback as well, which is a nice way to get a little extra value.

Let Kevin Vickerson, Dan Koppen, and Tracy Porter walk. - Yes, Kevin Vickerson will not be back next year. I like him, most people do, but he wont be back. We would have re-signed Bunkley if the front office cared about dishing out cash to the DT position. Fact is they don't, and Vickerson will be given the opportunity to sign elsewhere. Elway and Fox wont care much with Wolfe capable of sliding inside, and with Unrein coming into his own. Dan Koppen will obviously leave to try and find a starting role, and he's the best C on the market, so it just makes sense to test that market for more money than we'll give him to be Walton's backup here. Tracy Porter obviously wont be re-signed.

Denver signs unrestricted free agent Michael Bennett, formerly of the Bucs[/orange] - Bennett has worked his way from undrafted to a starting role with the Bucs. In the last two seasons he has come into his own. He's always shown signs of making an impact in the run game, but the last two years has accumulated tackles for loss, and finally this year, a breakout 9 sack season. He's big enough to keep OL from getting to Von (can't stress the importance of this from our LE), good vs the run, and is coming into his own as a pass rusher. Fills our left end spot beautifully. Wolfe slides inside and our defensive line is a hard working unit that gets to the quarterback from the inside and out. Bucs don't have many FA's to re-sign, so this may be a stretch, but he'd be a very good get for our defense.

2013 Draft
1. Kevin Minter - MLB - LSU - Read instinctive and physical is how he's described by cbs draft scout. I like that, and finding our future MLB is our biggest concern.

2. Travis Frederick - G/C - Wisconsin - Fredericks an animal of an interior lineman. He's gigantic at 6'4 330 and he has skill. He played center this year to replace Peter Konz, but was a guard before that, and a very good one. John Moffit took him under his wing when he got to Wisconsin, and Frederick declared after his junior year. Wisconsin produces very good offensive lineman, and they play physical. Frederick helps our run game a lot, provides very reliable depth in case we suffer some injuries, and if Kuper doesn't come off this surgery well, maybe he even starts from day one.

3. Shawn Williams - SS - Georgia - A leader who does what he's told and will do anything for the team, including play linebacker like he did for a year at Georgia. The type of leader who holds teammates accountable, and has called his defensive teammates out for playing soft. His coaches at Georgia compare him to Thomas Davis (who was awesome before all those injuries). Williams is a versatile safety who can pack a wallop, and also is more than capable in coverage. Has ball skills with 6 picks over the last 2 seasons. He's got good size at 6'0 and 215 pounds.

4. Emory Blake - WR - Auburn - From what I've read he's a good receiver who simply has had bad quarterback play since Cam left Auburn. I'm sure JF27 can fill us all in more on Blake, but this was kind of a plug and play pick for me. Looking for a hidden gem at receiver, and trying to avoid some of the guys who have been named time and time again in mid rounds of mocks. Seems like he'd be good depth, and a potential to move around different receiver positions.

5. Tony Jefferson - S - Oklahoma - I love this kids game. He can get at the running back in the backfield, he can come up and play in the box, and he can make plays in coverage. It seems like he comes to play on game day. The knock however, and I hear its a big one, is that he's not committed to preparing in the offseason, and isn't committed to the weight room like he should be. The rumor is that Sooners coaches have told teams to avoid Jefferson early due to this. If he falls to the end of the 5th I don't have much worry, he'd be value. With the pro's we have in our locker room, especially in the secondary, he'll get the message, and he'll be at training. Champ is very committed to offseason training, so is Chris Harris, and I'd imagine Rahim Moore is as well, as he got way better over the last offseason. I think there's a group of vets in our secondary that will whip this kid into shape, and if/when they do - sky could be the limit.

6. Bunkley trade I think?

7. Christine Michael - RB - Texas A&M - Averaged 4.7 yards per carry last year. Not a ton of wear on him. Size to hold up in a larger role. Thinnk he's going to be more effective in the pros than he was in college with Manziel running all the time.



Thats it. I'm sure there will be belly aching about the lack of a DT. The more I think about it though, the more I feel our front office/coaching staff are way more comfortable with their DT's than the fan base is. I only listed my most high impact FA signing, I think we prob bring in a DT, but probably not one any better than re-signing Vickerson woulda been.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the conclusion, you say "I'm sure there will be belly aching about the lack of a DT."... You are darn right I am man. I dont see a way we dont address that position AT ALL, especially if they let Vick walk.

Im not the biggest fan of Minter but I can understand the pick. He fits a need, I just dont like him in the 1st round, even though I think the Giants take him. Just my opinion though. Hes got talent but I dont see anything he does elite. Frederick and Williams picks are good. Id love them in the 2nd and 3rd. What do you have for Carter/Adams then?

Emory Blake is a good player. Hes got solid hands and CAN stretch the field. He will never be a #1 guy but as you have him, as a #3, hes a perfect fit. Its a nice pick, of course it is AUBURN!
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
In the conclusion, you say "I'm sure there will be belly aching about the lack of a DT."... You are darn right I am man. I dont see a way we dont address that position AT ALL, especially if they let Vick walk.


Well I did state that we would address it most likely in free agency with a rotational body, but prob someone cheaper than Vickerson. I haven't researched free agency too much yet, and I only wanted to list one signing because I don't think we make many more high impact FA adds than that.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
What do you have for Carter/Adams then?


As for Mike Adams and Quinton Carter... Win your jobs. The staff proved that the best players are making the team last year when they cut Drayton Florence for Tony Carter. Turned out to be a great move. Shawn Williams was a special teams standout at Georgia his first couple seasons, so if he beats Bruton out so be it. There's not much money tied up at the Safety position, so the best players will earn the spots, contracts won't get in the way.

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Emory Blake is a good player. Hes got solid hands and CAN stretch the field. He will never be a #1 guy but as you have him, as a #3, hes a perfect fit. Its a nice pick


Don't need him to be a 1, or a 2. A good reliable compliment is what we'll need down the road, so I was hoping to find that in the mid-rounds and reading some scouting stuff on Blake he seemed like a very skilled receiver who gets the position, but didnt have a guy who could get him the ball.
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LW33


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the mock quite a bit Elliott. I do think we'll add a DT somewhere but it might not be a splash. Will be interesting to see if having a bonafide QB and a shot to win the Superbowl lures a guy like Vickerson to stay at a bit below the market.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LW33 wrote:
Like the mock quite a bit Elliott. I do think we'll add a DT somewhere but it might not be a splash. Will be interesting to see if having a bonafide QB and a shot to win the Superbowl lures a guy like Vickerson to stay at a bit below the market.


It's like our front office doesn't want to retain some DT's unless they stay on a discount. I based no splash DT off of history more than what I want to happen. Our front office neglects it continually when it comes to spending money on the position. So I don't expect a big splash at DT (big FA or first 3 rounds of draft)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are going to let Vick and Koppen walk and resign Bannan? I surely don't understand that one. I disagree with your off season moves. This is a very deep DL class and you managed to avoid them all?
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
LW33 wrote:
Like the mock quite a bit Elliott. I do think we'll add a DT somewhere but it might not be a splash. Will be interesting to see if having a bonafide QB and a shot to win the Superbowl lures a guy like Vickerson to stay at a bit below the market.


It's like our front office doesn't want to retain some DT's unless they stay on a discount. I based no splash DT off of history more than what I want to happen. Our front office neglects it continually when it comes to spending money on the position. So I don't expect a big splash at DT (big FA or first 3 rounds of draft)


You and I have quite a different perspective on our DT situation. Elway brought in Bunkley and Warren his 1st year. The fact he didn't re-sign Bunkley has proven to be a good idea, he wasn't very good. Same with letting Thomas walk, that was a good idea too, same reason. Warren's just an injury bust.

I think they'll re-sign Vic. as a matter of fact I'd be quite surprised if they didn't. I don't think he'll be very expensive and I think he'll want to stay.

Whether or not Bannan is back depends alot on what the FO sees in Siliga and plans for Wolfe.

As far as the draft,out of our two top draft picks in the Elway era, one was a DT/DE.

True, they've had a bit of a revolving door at the position but they have thrown some money and draft picks at it. I look for a lot more stability this year with Vic, Unrein, Siliga and Wolfe. Add in a bit of situational Jackson and it could be a pretty competent unit.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have a history of not investing in the DT position. That's fairly obvious. When a player at DT's price rises, we've never liked to pay it. Wolfes been out biggest investment at the position in years, and I don't see another big investment this year.

It's a theory I have, time will tell if there's anything to it, I just don't think they see it as the need that the fan base sees it as. I don't agree with it, I still think DT is a high priority need, I'm just trying to put myself in their mind - and I don't see them investing heavily in the DT position this offseason. Again, just a theory I'm running with for this mock, not one I necessarily agree with, but wanted to use some tendencies I'be noticed from our front office.

In other words AK I don't think me and you have a different perspective when it comes to DT, but I have a hunch our front office sees it different from the majority of the fan base - and that's been that way for years as we've invested one early pick in what seems like ages at the position.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansas bob wrote:
You are going to let Vick and Koppen walk and resign Bannan? I surely don't understand that one. I disagree with your off season moves. This is a very deep DL class and you managed to avoid them all?
The only reason we signed Koppen was because Blake was already hurt and then Walton went down.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think part of the reason we didn't resign Bunkley had less to do with his contract demands and more to do with his attitude. Vickerson has been around awhile, I think he'll be rewarded.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
They have a history of not investing in the DT position. That's fairly obvious. When a player at DT's price rises, we've never liked to pay it. Wolfes been out biggest investment at the position in years, and I don't see another big investment this year.

It's a theory I have, time will tell if there's anything to it, I just don't think they see it as the need that the fan base sees it as. I don't agree with it, I still think DT is a high priority need, I'm just trying to put myself in their mind - and I don't see them investing heavily in the DT position this offseason. Again, just a theory I'm running with for this mock, not one I necessarily agree with, but wanted to use some tendencies I'be noticed from our front office.

In other words AK I don't think me and you have a different perspective when it comes to DT, but I have a hunch our front office sees it different from the majority of the fan base - and that's been that way for years as we've invested one early pick in what seems like ages at the position.


I think if you separate the Elway regime from prior history you'll notice quite a difference.

Year 1 they went after DT pretty heavy with Warren and Bunkley. Didn't work out so well.

Year 2 they beef up Vic sign Bannan and add Wolfe and Siliga. I guess my feeling is the Elway regime is giving the position quite a bit of attention.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansas bob wrote:
You are going to let Vick and Koppen walk and resign Bannan? I surely don't understand that one. I disagree with your off season moves. This is a very deep DL class and you managed to avoid them all?

For backup interior OLman you usually want a guy that can play OG also. Koppen can't and I dont think he has. But Koppen at this point is not a good C and Walton should be an upgrade(and hopefully he learned ffrom Koppen because he's a smart OL just physically declined).

I'd be shocked if Jefferson fell to the 5th. And Vickerson I think if someone overpays he's gone but if the price is right I think he'll be resigned.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
They have a history of not investing in the DT position. That's fairly obvious. When a player at DT's price rises, we've never liked to pay it. Wolfes been out biggest investment at the position in years, and I don't see another big investment this year.

It's a theory I have, time will tell if there's anything to it, I just don't think they see it as the need that the fan base sees it as. I don't agree with it, I still think DT is a high priority need, I'm just trying to put myself in their mind - and I don't see them investing heavily in the DT position this offseason. Again, just a theory I'm running with for this mock, not one I necessarily agree with, but wanted to use some tendencies I'be noticed from our front office.

In other words AK I don't think me and you have a different perspective when it comes to DT, but I have a hunch our front office sees it different from the majority of the fan base - and that's been that way for years as we've invested one early pick in what seems like ages at the position.


I think if you separate the Elway regime from prior history you'll notice quite a difference.

Year 1 they went after DT pretty heavy with Warren and Bunkley. Didn't work out so well.

Year 2 they beef up Vic sign Bannan and add Wolfe and Siliga. I guess my feeling is the Elway regime is giving the position quite a bit of attention.


Agree with this.
I think the reason some get the impression they haven't given it alot of attention, is because the FO hasn't made it a point to go get a big name DT in FA, or moved up to get a great prospect in the draft.
Here again, the interior line has improved markedly over the last couple years.
If they want to improve it, they need put alot of thought into moving up or spend alot of money in FA. I don't think they will do either, and with good reason. It's a solid team throughout, they just need to decide where they want to improve it, and that could be, with a few acceptions, any position.
I hope they keep stacking the team with solid talent, making good use of the draft picks, and taking a calculated risk on a player(via draft or FA) here and there. Just my thoughts.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
They have a history of not investing in the DT position. That's fairly obvious. When a player at DT's price rises, we've never liked to pay it. Wolfes been out biggest investment at the position in years, and I don't see another big investment this year.

It's a theory I have, time will tell if there's anything to it, I just don't think they see it as the need that the fan base sees it as. I don't agree with it, I still think DT is a high priority need, I'm just trying to put myself in their mind - and I don't see them investing heavily in the DT position this offseason. Again, just a theory I'm running with for this mock, not one I necessarily agree with, but wanted to use some tendencies I'be noticed from our front office.

In other words AK I don't think me and you have a different perspective when it comes to DT, but I have a hunch our front office sees it different from the majority of the fan base - and that's been that way for years as we've invested one early pick in what seems like ages at the position.


I think if you separate the Elway regime from prior history you'll notice quite a difference.

Year 1 they went after DT pretty heavy with Warren and Bunkley. Didn't work out so well.

Year 2 they beef up Vic sign Bannan and add Wolfe and Siliga. I guess my feeling is the Elway regime is giving the position quite a bit of attention.


I understand we've gotten a lot of players. But all at a discount. Bunk was a former first rounder who we got dirt cheap in an attempt to revive his career. Warren was on a damaged goods contract (still too pricy), what was Siliga a league minimum free agent?

My point is the front office has been and continues to be stingy with their spending at DT. Sure we brought in some players - but all at discounts, with the exception of Wolfe, and boy did it take a while for us to draft a DT with a pick in the first two rounds lol.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
They have a history of not investing in the DT position. That's fairly obvious. When a player at DT's price rises, we've never liked to pay it. Wolfes been out biggest investment at the position in years, and I don't see another big investment this year.

It's a theory I have, time will tell if there's anything to it, I just don't think they see it as the need that the fan base sees it as. I don't agree with it, I still think DT is a high priority need, I'm just trying to put myself in their mind - and I don't see them investing heavily in the DT position this offseason. Again, just a theory I'm running with for this mock, not one I necessarily agree with, but wanted to use some tendencies I'be noticed from our front office.

In other words AK I don't think me and you have a different perspective when it comes to DT, but I have a hunch our front office sees it different from the majority of the fan base - and that's been that way for years as we've invested one early pick in what seems like ages at the position.


I think if you separate the Elway regime from prior history you'll notice quite a difference.

Year 1 they went after DT pretty heavy with Warren and Bunkley. Didn't work out so well.

Year 2 they beef up Vic sign Bannan and add Wolfe and Siliga. I guess my feeling is the Elway regime is giving the position quite a bit of attention.


I understand we've gotten a lot of players. But all at a discount. Bunk was a former first rounder who we got dirt cheap in an attempt to revive his career. Warren was on a damaged goods contract (still too pricy), what was Siliga a league minimum free agent?

My point is the front office has been and continues to be stingy with their spending at DT. Sure we brought in some players - but all at discounts, with the exception of Wolfe, and boy did it take a while for us to draft a DT with a pick in the first two rounds lol.


I hear what your sayin'. I just think in all fairness we shouldn't attribute past regimes attitudes to this one. I mean outside of PM we haven't made any splash to speak of in FA, not just DT. Actually we've taken more shots there than anywhere, bargains or not.

Passing on Dareus to pick Von is about the only time Elway bypassed the position. Glad he did. Also, glad he got Wolfe last year also. Personally I think he's going to be special. The way they use him, his relentlessness and motor remind me alot of Howie Long.

Really looking forward to watching him next year. I think we'll see him at DT quite a bit more.
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