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Panthers LB Luke Kuechly named Defensive Rookie of the year
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7798
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29427
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.


How much of an impact did Kuechly have on his defense? Where did he grade out? Would you say he was the glue that held together a much improved defense?
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.


How much of an impact did Kuechly have on his defense? Where did he grade out? Would you say he was the glue that held together a much improved defense?
I think that he was a nice addition but not a player that took his unit to the next level. Hayward and Smith were the only major changes on previously terrible pass defenses and made them very respectable. And both played like guys at the top of their positions.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
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Panthers11


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.


How much of an impact did Kuechly have on his defense? Where did he grade out? Would you say he was the glue that held together a much improved defense?
I think that he was a nice addition but not a player that took his unit to the next level. Hayward and Smith were the only major changes on previously terrible pass defenses and made them very respectable. And both played like guys at the top of their positions.


Well, this is wrong. the Panthers defense from 2011 and week 1-4 of 2012 were nothing like the defense from week 5 and on.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.


How much of an impact did Kuechly have on his defense? Where did he grade out? Would you say he was the glue that held together a much improved defense?
I think that he was a nice addition but not a player that took his unit to the next level. Hayward and Smith were the only major changes on previously terrible pass defenses and made them very respectable. And both played like guys at the top of their positions.


Who else was added to the Panthers that took them from probably the worst defense in the NFL last season to a respectable defense this season? We went from a ranking of 28th in yards allowed and 27th in points allowed last season to 10th and 18th respectively. Who? Haruki Nakamura? Dude is terrible? I mean, TD did make a great return from his third knee surgery. But you need to temper that addition with the subtraction of Beason. No, the only major difference was Kuechly. He's it.

Over the first 4 games of the season, where Kuechly started on the outside, we allowed around 130 yards rushing per game. Once we lost Beason (our starting pro bowl linebacker, mind you) and Kuechly slid to the middle, the defense allowed no 100 yard rushing games for the next three games and 4 100+ yard rushing games the rest of the season. We allowed 11 last season.

During the first 4 games of the season, we averaged less than 1 forced turnover per game. Once Luke slid over, we averaged over 1 and a half. No idea what we averaged last season.

In our first 4 games we allowed 3 teams to post over 400 yards on us. Once Luke slid over, we allowed 2 teams to post 400+ yards on us the rest of the season.

Kuechly was absolutely pivotal in our defenses turnaround and without a doubt took the defense to the next level.

See, this is what I am getting at. People want to just peg the guy as a "big name." They dont want to give him credit for what he actually did. But let me put it in very plain terms. Our defense (our run defense in particular) got better when we lost our best linebacker for the season (and one of the best LBers in the NFL) and had to replace him with a rookie.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
A middle LB that was drafted highly won the DROY award... Shocker Rolling Eyes


Yeah, go figure that the NFL's leading tackler would win an award.
Wow, tackles is such an amazing stat. It totally reflects just how good a player really is.


How about tackles+stuffs+sacks+interceptions+passes defensed? Plus all that game film that showed just how great he was on the field. Does all that reflect how good a player really is?

Kuechly was as deserving as anyone this year for the award. You are kidding yourself if you dont think so.
So how about the cornerback that had the best metrics in the NFL? Not only that, but Hayward joined one of the worst defenses in NFL history and helped turn them into an above average pass defense. I think he had a much bigger impact.


There were as few very deserving candidates. It was a great year for defensive rookies. All I am saying is Kuechly was every bit as deserving. He wasnt gifted the award. He earned it with outstanding play on the field.

It seems there is this tendency to jump to the conclusion that Kuchly is sliding by on his name and draft position. It isnt true. Dude was balling this season. He had a phenomenal rookie season. The numbers bear that out. The film bears that out.

"Much" bigger impact? How so? Kuechly was moved to the middle and the defense immediately becan an amazing turnaround. You might have an argument that Hayward had a bigger impact. But a "much" bigger impact? Thats pure homerperbole.
So grading out as a top 3 cornerback in the NFL, not rookies, the entire NFL and having 6 INT's isn't better than being a very good MLB? Hayward was elite at his position, I didn't think any other rookie defender was elite or had an impact like Hayward did. Harrison Smith should have been up there as well. The Vikings pass defense went from terrible to very respectable and Smith was the glue that held it all together.


How much of an impact did Kuechly have on his defense? Where did he grade out? Would you say he was the glue that held together a much improved defense?
I think that he was a nice addition but not a player that took his unit to the next level. Hayward and Smith were the only major changes on previously terrible pass defenses and made them very respectable. And both played like guys at the top of their positions.


Who else was added to the Panthers that took them from probably the worst defense in the NFL last season to a respectable defense this season? We went from a ranking of 28th in yards allowed and 27th in points allowed last season to 10th and 18th respectively. Who? Haruki Nakamura? Dude is terrible? I mean, TD did make a great return from his third knee surgery. But you need to temper that addition with the subtraction of Beason. No, the only major difference was Kuechly. He's it.

Over the first 4 games of the season, where Kuechly started on the outside, we allowed around 130 yards rushing per game. Once we lost Beason (our starting pro bowl linebacker, mind you) and Kuechly slid to the middle, the defense allowed no 100 yard rushing games for the next three games and 4 100+ yard rushing games the rest of the season. We allowed 11 last season.

During the first 4 games of the season, we averaged less than 1 forced turnover per game. Once Luke slid over, we averaged over 1 and a half. No idea what we averaged last season.

In our first 4 games we allowed 3 teams to post over 400 yards on us. Once Luke slid over, we allowed 2 teams to post 400+ yards on us the rest of the season.

Kuechly was absolutely pivotal in our defenses turnaround and without a doubt took the defense to the next level.

See, this is what I am getting at. People want to just peg the guy as a "big name." They dont want to give him credit for what he actually did. But let me put it in very plain terms. Our defense (our run defense in particular) got better when we lost our best linebacker for the season (and one of the best LBers in the NFL) and had to replace him with a rookie.
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB. So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year. Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vikings pass defense was horrible? What are you talking about?

24th yds/game
22nd in avg
23rd in TDs
10th in 20+ plays given up
4th in 40+ plays given up

The Vikings numbers indicate a classic bend/dont break style of defense.

I agree they werent great, but terrible? Terrible implies bottom 5 in everything across the board. In 2011, the pass defense was terrible. In 2012 it was solid, inconsistent and consisted of several young and developing players.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


So thats it? Those are the only options? It cant be that Kuechly just played great and took the defense to the next level?

Quote:
So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year.


No, we didnt go from poor to average. We went from horrible to average. Argualy we went from horrible to slightly above average. See, you are choosing your words carefully. We were a bottom 2 or 3 defense last season.

And again, Kuechly was the only major change made as well. And our defense made huge progress as well.

Quote:
Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.


But my issue isnt you saying Smith or Hayward had larger impacts (though I probably disagree). My issue is with you saying he had a MUCH bigger impact. He didnt. And, to be honest, I doubt you had any idea how big an impact Kuechly had on our defense until I pointed it out just now. Otherwise you may not have made such a bold, incorrect statement.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


I wouldn't say overrated but he was pretty bad coming off injury.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
The Vikings pass defense was horrible? What are you talking about?

24th yds/game
22nd in avg
23rd in TDs
10th in 20+ plays given up
4th in 40+ plays given up

The Vikings numbers indicate a classic bend/dont break style of defense.

I agree they werent great, but terrible? Terrible implies bottom 5 in everything across the board. In 2011, the pass defense was terrible. In 2012 it was solid, inconsistent and consisted of several young and developing players.
Confused Do you not understand? I was saying they were terrible in 2011 and were a ton improved with Harrison Smith in 2012. I would go as far as to say that if the Vikings don't have Smith they wouldn't have made the Playoffs.The Vikings pass defense was very solid this year.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


So thats it? Those are the only options? It cant be that Kuechly just played great and took the defense to the next level?

Quote:
So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year.


No, we didnt go from poor to average. We went from horrible to average. Argualy we went from horrible to slightly above average. See, you are choosing your words carefully. We were a bottom 2 or 3 defense last season.

And again, Kuechly was the only major change made as well. And our defense made huge progress as well.

Quote:
Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.


But my issue isnt you saying Smith or Hayward had larger impacts (though I probably disagree). My issue is with you saying he had a MUCH bigger impact. He didnt. And, to be honest, I doubt you had any idea how big an impact Kuechly had on our defense until I pointed it out just now. Otherwise you may not have made such a bold, incorrect statement.
Ok, so you are mad over 1 word? With the addition of Hayward we went from possibly the worst pass defense of all time, not just last year, worst of all time and we add Casey and then we became a top 10 pass defense in yards per play. That is a huge difference, from historically bad to top 10.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoop Whoop A BC boy!!!!!!!!
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


So thats it? Those are the only options? It cant be that Kuechly just played great and took the defense to the next level?

Quote:
So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year.


No, we didnt go from poor to average. We went from horrible to average. Argualy we went from horrible to slightly above average. See, you are choosing your words carefully. We were a bottom 2 or 3 defense last season.

And again, Kuechly was the only major change made as well. And our defense made huge progress as well.

Quote:
Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.


But my issue isnt you saying Smith or Hayward had larger impacts (though I probably disagree). My issue is with you saying he had a MUCH bigger impact. He didnt. And, to be honest, I doubt you had any idea how big an impact Kuechly had on our defense until I pointed it out just now. Otherwise you may not have made such a bold, incorrect statement.
Ok, so you are mad over 1 word? With the addition of Hayward we went from possibly the worst pass defense of all time, not just last year, worst of all time and we add Casey and then we became a top 10 pass defense in yards per play. That is a huge difference, from historically bad to top 10.


Who said I was mad? I took issue with what you were saying. I didnt say I was mad. Please stop with the hyperbole. It isnt going to get you anywhere. I will just keep pointing it out.

Yards per play is one stat. They definitely improved. But, at the same time, you had like 12 fewer interceptions. Was that Casey's fault as well? Does a defense improve by taking the ball away less?

Your pass defense wasnt as bad as you are suggesting. It would be hard to convince anyone that the "worst pass defense in history" happened lead the league in takeaways. It was bad. It wasnt historically bad.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


So thats it? Those are the only options? It cant be that Kuechly just played great and took the defense to the next level?

Quote:
So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year.


No, we didnt go from poor to average. We went from horrible to average. Argualy we went from horrible to slightly above average. See, you are choosing your words carefully. We were a bottom 2 or 3 defense last season.

And again, Kuechly was the only major change made as well. And our defense made huge progress as well.

Quote:
Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.


But my issue isnt you saying Smith or Hayward had larger impacts (though I probably disagree). My issue is with you saying he had a MUCH bigger impact. He didnt. And, to be honest, I doubt you had any idea how big an impact Kuechly had on our defense until I pointed it out just now. Otherwise you may not have made such a bold, incorrect statement.
Ok, so you are mad over 1 word? With the addition of Hayward we went from possibly the worst pass defense of all time, not just last year, worst of all time and we add Casey and then we became a top 10 pass defense in yards per play. That is a huge difference, from historically bad to top 10.


So the guy who played 63% of your snaps was the sole reason your defense became that much better?

Not denying Hayward helped tremendously. But you aren't giving Kuechly his due whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
So either Luke is a terrible OLB or Beason is overrated as a MLB.


So thats it? Those are the only options? It cant be that Kuechly just played great and took the defense to the next level?

Quote:
So your defense went from poor to average. Both the Packers and Vikings had horrible pass defenses last year and Hayward and Smith were the only major changes made and those defenses made huge progress this year.


No, we didnt go from poor to average. We went from horrible to average. Argualy we went from horrible to slightly above average. See, you are choosing your words carefully. We were a bottom 2 or 3 defense last season.

And again, Kuechly was the only major change made as well. And our defense made huge progress as well.

Quote:
Plus Hayward made a huge impact no matter what spot he was on the field, outside or slot corner. I just think that Hayward and Smith had larger impacts on their defenses.


But my issue isnt you saying Smith or Hayward had larger impacts (though I probably disagree). My issue is with you saying he had a MUCH bigger impact. He didnt. And, to be honest, I doubt you had any idea how big an impact Kuechly had on our defense until I pointed it out just now. Otherwise you may not have made such a bold, incorrect statement.
Ok, so you are mad over 1 word? With the addition of Hayward we went from possibly the worst pass defense of all time, not just last year, worst of all time and we add Casey and then we became a top 10 pass defense in yards per play. That is a huge difference, from historically bad to top 10.


So the guy who played 63% of your snaps was the sole reason your defense became that much better?

Not denying Hayward helped tremendously. But you aren't giving Kuechly his due whatsoever.
Well it wasn't Nick Perry who didn't play after week 6. It wasn't Jerel Worthy who is a run stopper and a poor pass rusher. It certainly wasn't Mike Daniels or Jerron McMillian who saw limited snaps. Hayward was probably the biggest reason. Not saying Luke is bad I just think Hayward and Smith were better and more important.
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Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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