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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14114
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapp deserves it. He's not a Raider for me though.
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't consider him a Raider. The fact that he got in before Timmy is just enraging for me....
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La_Vader


Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapp deserves it, even tho he wasn't in his prime as a Raider. Wish we didn't run into that defense in the Super Bowl. That defense
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

La_Vader wrote:
Sapp deserves it, even tho he wasn't in his prime as a Raider. Wish we didn't run into that defense in the Super Bowl. That defense


Or Callahan's "changed" game plan. Confused
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
La_Vader wrote:
Sapp deserves it, even tho he wasn't in his prime as a Raider. Wish we didn't run into that defense in the Super Bowl. That defense


Or Callahan's "changed" game plan. Confused

This.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3624
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nodisrespect wrote:
early43 wrote:
lol I was just making thread about this but thought to double check and make sure I wasn't doubling up on the topic...

My feelings are complete disgust and sadness...

Disgust because of the fact that its gotten to this point that sports writers are voting in undeserving players. Sapp is and will always be a one trick, scheme limited players. Hes a Tampa-2, penetrating DT. I don't want to discredit what he accomplished throughout his career but IMO, the HOF is for the elites elite. Players that can play in any scheme, any era, any team.
Really is Joe Montana HOF in a vertical system? How can you say that?

Players that are elite at all phases of the game, not just one aspect. Sapp was elite pass rusher, he was not an elite DT in terms of HOF'ers. I understand his stats are probably better than most DT in the HOF, but the guy was above-average at best when it came to run defense. People are probably going to compare him to John Randle as an example but its a moot comparison because John Randle was a great run defender as well as being a elite pass rusher from his position.

The same reason Kevin Green isn't getting voted in should have carried over to Sapp IMO.


Saddnes because I feel for Tim Brown. How can you say Cris Carter is worthy but not Tim Brown when they have almost identical careers in terms of stats/accolades? Same thing goes for Will Shields vs Larry Allen IMO. Almost identical players in terms of career accomplishments, minus SB rings obviously, but according to the Peter Kings of the world, one was worthy over the other... Just makes no sense to be.


Sapp was perhaps the best penetrating DT all-time, has a 3 tech ever gotten 16.5 sacks in a season on one of the best defenses of alltime? Sapp was a game changer and the best DT in the NFL hands down for about 3 seasons which is usually what HOF voters look for.


The reason All DT don't penetrate every play is they have run responsibilities. They have to stay home and wait for the play to develop, not just shoot a gap every play.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1078
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
early43 wrote:
lol I was just making thread about this but thought to double check and make sure I wasn't doubling up on the topic...

My feelings are complete disgust and sadness...

Disgust because of the fact that its gotten to this point that sports writers are voting in undeserving players. Sapp is and will always be a one trick, scheme limited players. Hes a Tampa-2, penetrating DT. I don't want to discredit what he accomplished throughout his career but IMO, the HOF is for the elites elite. Players that can play in any scheme, any era, any team.
Really is Joe Montana HOF in a vertical system? How can you say that?

Players that are elite at all phases of the game, not just one aspect. Sapp was elite pass rusher, he was not an elite DT in terms of HOF'ers. I understand his stats are probably better than most DT in the HOF, but the guy was above-average at best when it came to run defense. People are probably going to compare him to John Randle as an example but its a moot comparison because John Randle was a great run defender as well as being a elite pass rusher from his position.

The same reason Kevin Green isn't getting voted in should have carried over to Sapp IMO.


Saddnes because I feel for Tim Brown. How can you say Cris Carter is worthy but not Tim Brown when they have almost identical careers in terms of stats/accolades? Same thing goes for Will Shields vs Larry Allen IMO. Almost identical players in terms of career accomplishments, minus SB rings obviously, but according to the Peter Kings of the world, one was worthy over the other... Just makes no sense to be.


Sapp was perhaps the best penetrating DT all-time, has a 3 tech ever gotten 16.5 sacks in a season on one of the best defenses of alltime? Sapp was a game changer and the best DT in the NFL hands down for about 3 seasons which is usually what HOF voters look for.


The reason All DT don't penetrate every play is they have run responsibilities. They have to stay home and wait for the play to develop, not just shoot a gap every play.


If HOF voters only vote based on one trait, then why isn't Ray Guy in the HOF yet? Or Kevin Greene? Or Eric Metcalf as a returner?

My point was poorly directed by my part. Do I think Sapp is a first time HOF'er? Absolute not when guys like Will Shields, Kevin Greene, Charles Haley, Ray Guy, ect are still waiting. What was the differenence between what Sapp accomplished in his career vs what Kevin Green did in his? Or Charles Haley for that matter? All three did one great thing. If their one great thing is good enough, why isn't Ray Guy and his kicking in the hall? Or Eric Metcalf and his return ability?
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
La_Vader wrote:
Sapp deserves it, even tho he wasn't in his prime as a Raider. Wish we didn't run into that defense in the Super Bowl. That defense


Or Callahan's "changed" game plan. Confused

This.

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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3624
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

early43 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
early43 wrote:
lol I was just making thread about this but thought to double check and make sure I wasn't doubling up on the topic...

My feelings are complete disgust and sadness...

Disgust because of the fact that its gotten to this point that sports writers are voting in undeserving players. Sapp is and will always be a one trick, scheme limited players. Hes a Tampa-2, penetrating DT. I don't want to discredit what he accomplished throughout his career but IMO, the HOF is for the elites elite. Players that can play in any scheme, any era, any team.
Really is Joe Montana HOF in a vertical system? How can you say that?

Players that are elite at all phases of the game, not just one aspect. Sapp was elite pass rusher, he was not an elite DT in terms of HOF'ers. I understand his stats are probably better than most DT in the HOF, but the guy was above-average at best when it came to run defense. People are probably going to compare him to John Randle as an example but its a moot comparison because John Randle was a great run defender as well as being a elite pass rusher from his position.

The same reason Kevin Green isn't getting voted in should have carried over to Sapp IMO.


Saddnes because I feel for Tim Brown. How can you say Cris Carter is worthy but not Tim Brown when they have almost identical careers in terms of stats/accolades? Same thing goes for Will Shields vs Larry Allen IMO. Almost identical players in terms of career accomplishments, minus SB rings obviously, but according to the Peter Kings of the world, one was worthy over the other... Just makes no sense to be.


Sapp was perhaps the best penetrating DT all-time, has a 3 tech ever gotten 16.5 sacks in a season on one of the best defenses of alltime? Sapp was a game changer and the best DT in the NFL hands down for about 3 seasons which is usually what HOF voters look for.


The reason All DT don't penetrate every play is they have run responsibilities. They have to stay home and wait for the play to develop, not just shoot a gap every play.


If HOF voters only vote based on one trait, then why isn't Ray Guy in the HOF yet? Or Kevin Greene? Or Eric Metcalf as a returner?

My point was poorly directed by my part. Do I think Sapp is a first time HOF'er? Absolute not when guys like Will Shields, Kevin Greene, Charles Haley, Ray Guy, ect are still waiting. What was the differenence between what Sapp accomplished in his career vs what Kevin Green did in his? Or Charles Haley for that matter? All three did one great thing. If their one great thing is good enough, why isn't Ray Guy and his kicking in the hall? Or Eric Metcalf and his return ability?


So Sapp being in he spot light has nothing to do with it?
The thing Sapp should be in the Hall of Fame for is self-promoting.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1078
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
early43 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Nodisrespect wrote:
early43 wrote:
lol I was just making thread about this but thought to double check and make sure I wasn't doubling up on the topic...

My feelings are complete disgust and sadness...

Disgust because of the fact that its gotten to this point that sports writers are voting in undeserving players. Sapp is and will always be a one trick, scheme limited players. Hes a Tampa-2, penetrating DT. I don't want to discredit what he accomplished throughout his career but IMO, the HOF is for the elites elite. Players that can play in any scheme, any era, any team.
Really is Joe Montana HOF in a vertical system? How can you say that?

Players that are elite at all phases of the game, not just one aspect. Sapp was elite pass rusher, he was not an elite DT in terms of HOF'ers. I understand his stats are probably better than most DT in the HOF, but the guy was above-average at best when it came to run defense. People are probably going to compare him to John Randle as an example but its a moot comparison because John Randle was a great run defender as well as being a elite pass rusher from his position.

The same reason Kevin Green isn't getting voted in should have carried over to Sapp IMO.


Saddnes because I feel for Tim Brown. How can you say Cris Carter is worthy but not Tim Brown when they have almost identical careers in terms of stats/accolades? Same thing goes for Will Shields vs Larry Allen IMO. Almost identical players in terms of career accomplishments, minus SB rings obviously, but according to the Peter Kings of the world, one was worthy over the other... Just makes no sense to be.


Sapp was perhaps the best penetrating DT all-time, has a 3 tech ever gotten 16.5 sacks in a season on one of the best defenses of alltime? Sapp was a game changer and the best DT in the NFL hands down for about 3 seasons which is usually what HOF voters look for.


The reason All DT don't penetrate every play is they have run responsibilities. They have to stay home and wait for the play to develop, not just shoot a gap every play.


If HOF voters only vote based on one trait, then why isn't Ray Guy in the HOF yet? Or Kevin Greene? Or Eric Metcalf as a returner?

My point was poorly directed by my part. Do I think Sapp is a first time HOF'er? Absolute not when guys like Will Shields, Kevin Greene, Charles Haley, Ray Guy, ect are still waiting. What was the differenence between what Sapp accomplished in his career vs what Kevin Green did in his? Or Charles Haley for that matter? All three did one great thing. If their one great thing is good enough, why isn't Ray Guy and his kicking in the hall? Or Eric Metcalf and his return ability?


So Sapp being in he spot light has nothing to do with it?
The thing Sapp should be in the Hall of Fame for is self-promoting.


Im not a Sapp fan by any means. I do agree that he was a great player in the league for a long time. Great one thing for sure, but none the less great. But when did being great become enough to earn HOF recognition? HOF has always been for the players that were a level above great IMO... I just have a hard time with him being in before guys like Green, Haley, Strahan, ect.
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BlackWidow


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REMOVED BY NICKBUTERA

**That's a warning BlackWidow. See my comment below**
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Selkiesxx


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Brown really get shafted.

Probably my absolute favorite receiver growing up. Had an amazing impact on the return game throughout his career and was a phenomenal receiver.

I feel your pain Raiders fans, I really do. Warren Sapp does not belong, in my honest opinion. Stats or not, the guy was a one-trick pony.
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackWidow wrote:
REMOVED BY NICKBUTERA


BlackWidow That's a warning. Completely inappropriate. We don't use foul language (or try to get around the language filters) nor do we name call or use racial slurs/or/alternate linguistically bad names. I don't want to see this again. Thanks.
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My biggest concern with Sapp is that I'm not convinced he's a first ballot HOF'er. The push to get defensive players in the HOF is what he benefited from. I'm ok with him being in the Hall, but to put him in the same breath as other first ballot HOF'ers like Steve Young, Deion, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Faulk, Jerry Rice, Rod Woodson, Troy Aikman, Lawrence Taylor, Marino, Upshaw, Earl Campbell, Singletary, etc etc is silly.
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BlackWidow


Joined: 03 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
BlackWidow wrote:
REMOVED BY NICKBUTERA


BlackWidow That's a warning. Completely inappropriate. We don't use foul language (or try to get around the language filters) nor do we name call or use racial slurs/or/alternate linguistically bad names. I don't want to see this again. Thanks.

LOL!!! I've seen so much worse on here. And I did NOT say anything racist. AT ALL.

Alright you're the boss...
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