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REDandPEWTER Post Senior Bowl Mock Draft/Signings
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 9383
Location: Deadpulse sigging it up
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
No one has done anything not to be replaced. Clayborn, Bowers? You talk potential. Thats it.


"Potential that's it"... really? Clayborn getting 7.5 sacks as a rookie with McCoy basically being out the year and no other interior threat to take some pressure off of him wasn't impressive?

Bowers has shown he can be very solid against the run and is able to get to the qb now and again while getting limited snaps. He is backing up Bennett anywho so I love what Bowers brings.

I am not saying our group is lights out but overall a very talented group. I am down for sure to grab a rush tackle and wouldn't be mad with adding a speed guy through the draft or fa but I would be pissed if we went end forcing Clayborn to rotate in. I am not giving up on him this early.


Can't beat the facts: Been bottom 5 in the league in rushing the passer the last 5 years now.

Clayborn is coming off a knee injury and how much can you count on Bowers to consistently stay healthy?


"Beat the facts"... the facts are Bowers (22 years old) has been in the league 2 years, Clayborn (24 years old) has been in the league 2 years, McCoy (24 years old) has been in the league 3 years, Roy Miller (25 years old) has been in the league 4 years, Michael Bennett (27 years old) is the old man of the group and has been with Tampa 4 years. No clue what a 5 year stat has to do with a group that has on avg been with the team 3 years.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
No one has done anything not to be replaced. Clayborn, Bowers? You talk potential. Thats it.


"Potential that's it"... really? Clayborn getting 7.5 sacks as a rookie with McCoy basically being out the year and no other interior threat to take some pressure off of him wasn't impressive?

Bowers has shown he can be very solid against the run and is able to get to the qb now and again while getting limited snaps. He is backing up Bennett anywho so I love what Bowers brings.

I am not saying our group is lights out but overall a very talented group. I am down for sure to grab a rush tackle and wouldn't be mad with adding a speed guy through the draft or fa but I would be pissed if we went end forcing Clayborn to rotate in. I am not giving up on him this early.


Can't beat the facts: Been bottom 5 in the league in rushing the passer the last 5 years now.

Clayborn is coming off a knee injury and how much can you count on Bowers to consistently stay healthy?


"Beat the facts"... the facts are Bowers (22 years old) has been in the league 2 years, Clayborn (24 years old) has been in the league 2 years, McCoy (24 years old) has been in the league 3 years, Roy Miller (25 years old) has been in the league 4 years, Michael Bennett (27 years old) is the old man of the group and has been with Tampa 4 years. No clue what a 5 year stat has to do with a group that has on avg been with the team 3 years.


None of these additions at DE have even improved our pass rush significantly...what does that tell you?
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eggybucsfan31


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 7713
Location: Westerly RI
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
eggybucsfan31 wrote:
A secondary that 'struggled' to cover is putting it very lightly.


Any team that fails to pressure the QB, will make an all pro secondary look average.

Yet, a dominate dline can make a weak secondary look average. See the Atlanta game. We need to continue to build.


We couldn't pressure the QB because the receivers were open almost immediately, and when we did get pressure the pass was still completed.

Clayborn (who everyone is forgetting about), Bennett and Bowers is a decent group with definite potential, we don't need to draft another inexperienced DE with potential, we need to sign a veteran.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eggybucsfan31 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
eggybucsfan31 wrote:
A secondary that 'struggled' to cover is putting it very lightly.


Any team that fails to pressure the QB, will make an all pro secondary look average.

Yet, a dominate dline can make a weak secondary look average. See the Atlanta game. We need to continue to build.


We couldn't pressure the QB because the receivers were open almost immediately, and when we did get pressure the pass was still completed.

Clayborn (who everyone is forgetting about), Bennett and Bowers is a decent group with definite potential, we don't need to draft another inexperienced DE with potential, we need to sign a veteran.


Not sure what games you were watching, but more than half the time, our secondary, which, yes, was pretty weak, was torched. However, more times than not, I've seen QBs have all day to find an open WR.

I think too many are giving our pass rush a "pass" here. The stats say "worst secondary" in pass yards surrendered. But watching the film, the pass rush was just as bad.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
None of these additions at DE have even improved our pass rush significantly...what does that tell you?


So adding Enzekial Ansah who has been playing ball for how long and who also during the senior bowl week was questioned both by Mayock and Jeremiah whether he would be a good first round pick let alone at or not let alone at 13th overall is the answer?

We could have Reggie White playing at end, are Biggers, Johnson, McDonald going to lock the Falcons weapons down? Or how is this we have Ansah at end, are Biggers, Johnson, McDonald going to lock the Falcons weapons down? To keep saying we need a rush to cover up our terrible secondary is not right.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think too many are giving our pass rush a "pass" here. The stats say "worst secondary" in pass yards surrendered. But watching the film, the pass rush was just as bad.


You said earlier that potential is all that can be said about our line, can the same be said about our secondary? So why draft guys with potential to take a guys spot that has potential?
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
None of these additions at DE have even improved our pass rush significantly...what does that tell you?


So adding Enzekial Ansah who has been playing ball for how long and who also during the senior bowl week was questioned both by Mayock and Jeremiah whether he would be a good first round pick let alone at or not let alone at 13th overall is the answer?

We could have Reggie White playing at end, are Biggers, Johnson, McDonald going to lock the Falcons weapons down? Or how is this we have Ansah at end, are Biggers, Johnson, McDonald going to lock the Falcons weapons down? To keep saying we need a rush to cover up our terrible secondary is not right.


Here's what I'm saying: Do we need to address the secondary? Yes. But the pass rush was equally bad.

What is the strength of this years Draft? DL, OL, WR/TE. Secondary is solid, but it's better to address our "needs" in FA and draft to the drafts strengths.

Ansah is a different player. Did you not watch the film? I'm not sure if Clayborn is your proto-typical pass rushing RE. When he came out, he reminded me more of a 5 Technique in teh 3-4 that can push the pocket. Yeah, he had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. So did Gaines Adams.

Our dline lacked depth and consistency. Actually, they were consistently bad. Your saying Clayborn, 1 player, is that good that would have made our dline from bottom 5 to amongst the best? I'm having a hard time believing that.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think too many are giving our pass rush a "pass" here. The stats say "worst secondary" in pass yards surrendered. But watching the film, the pass rush was just as bad.


You said earlier that potential is all that can be said about our line, can the same be said about our secondary? So why draft guys with potential to take a guys spot that has potential?


First of all, what has Clayborn and Bowers done in the league to not have competition? Both have missed significant amount of time in the nfl so far.

2nd: Yeah, I said right now, we're just banking on potential with our current guys. I see Ansah as a much better player coming out than Clayborn and Bowers.

And when we talk about "Banking on potential, we're talking 2 guys who have 2 years experience, and to pass on a strong DL class this year to count on both Bowers and Clayborn to hit it big", is a bit risky.


We don't have a ton of money invested in Clayborn or Bowers, so taking Ansah isn't as bad as a risk here. Keeping the rotation would keep these guys fresh.
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scottonatable


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1141
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think we should trade down personally get more picks and still get Banks or Rhodes. then if our DES still have trouble and we have a terrible season due to Freeman, we can have our sights on Clowney or Bridgewater
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottonatable wrote:
i think we should trade down personally get more picks and still get Banks or Rhodes. then if our DES still have trouble and we have a terrible season due to Freeman, we can have our sights on Clowney or Bridgewater


Meaning we've failed yet again? Man, I'm really hopeful for 2013. I want to see playoffs. Year 5 in the rebuilding year, this should be the year.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1972
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very, very disappointed if Tampa did not draft a CB within the first 3 rounds of this rich CB class. FA class is good; I'd only take Ansah in a trade back. Williams is my bro so I approve of that. Thing is he isn't a returner. For our team sake, I'd invest a #3 WR that can do KR/PR.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2233
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
No one said anything of a 1st rd pick, and this fan base sickens me with this " oh we have positions to fill". Dude outside Martin nicks dj VJ penn/McCoy David ac Barron everyone's job is replaceable. Understand that. This mindset has to stop.


You think I care one bit about anything you have to say? Your opinion is completely worthless to me, i was replying to the other post. Believe me I wish nothing more than for you to just delete your account from this website so I don't have to read anymore of your worthless ramblings


Harsh but,How about knowledgable ramblings
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canadabuccaneer


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 889
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think too many are giving our pass rush a "pass" here. The stats say "worst secondary" in pass yards surrendered. But watching the film, the pass rush was just as bad.


You said earlier that potential is all that can be said about our line, can the same be said about our secondary? So why draft guys with potential to take a guys spot that has potential?


First of all, what has Clayborn and Bowers done in the league to not have competition? Both have missed significant amount of time in the nfl so far.

2nd: Yeah, I said right now, we're just banking on potential with our current guys. I see Ansah as a much better player coming out than Clayborn and Bowers.

And when we talk about "Banking on potential, we're talking 2 guys who have 2 years experience, and to pass on a strong DL class this year to count on both Bowers and Clayborn to hit it big", is a bit risky.


We don't have a ton of money invested in Clayborn or Bowers, so taking Ansah isn't as bad as a risk here. Keeping the rotation would keep these guys fresh.


If it wasn't for injury concerns, Bowers would have been drafted in the top 5. I know you are a big Ansah supporter but I think Bowers was the better prospect based on skill
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadabuccaneer wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think too many are giving our pass rush a "pass" here. The stats say "worst secondary" in pass yards surrendered. But watching the film, the pass rush was just as bad.


You said earlier that potential is all that can be said about our line, can the same be said about our secondary? So why draft guys with potential to take a guys spot that has potential?


First of all, what has Clayborn and Bowers done in the league to not have competition? Both have missed significant amount of time in the nfl so far.

2nd: Yeah, I said right now, we're just banking on potential with our current guys. I see Ansah as a much better player coming out than Clayborn and Bowers.

And when we talk about "Banking on potential, we're talking 2 guys who have 2 years experience, and to pass on a strong DL class this year to count on both Bowers and Clayborn to hit it big", is a bit risky.


We don't have a ton of money invested in Clayborn or Bowers, so taking Ansah isn't as bad as a risk here. Keeping the rotation would keep these guys fresh.


If it wasn't for injury concerns, Bowers would have been drafted in the top 5. I know you are a big Ansah supporter but I think Bowers was the better prospect based on skill
That's a great point. Bowers was an elite DE prospect coming out before his knee scared everybody away. I think he will be a better player than Clayborn next year. Bowers was a better pass rusher than Ansah coming out and its not even close. Bowers has a pass rush arsenal and great athletic ability. Ansah is more athletic but he isn't the polished edge rusher you'd hope for. Its hard to believe that Bowers will be 23 years old entering year 3 in the NFL.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what concerns me about Bowers is his knee injury history and the fact he already tore his achilles. Achilles tears do affect NFL players, even after they are healed. It's common fact. Is he healthy now? Yes. But a bad knee and torn achilles makes you wonder, can you count on him a full season?
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