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John Mara: "Cruz is asking for too much money right now
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 2871
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question?

What if the Redskins swoop in there and offer Victor Cruz a deal, the Giants don't match?

I understand that Cruz is a RFA and I believe the Giants would get compensation for it.
My question is...how much compensation?

There's a reason why I ask. (not that it will happen)
But maybe someone has the answer to this?

I imagine that Cruz, will get a 1st rd tender, if they both cannot come to a contract agreement.
But what if the Redskins offered a deal, that was not matched by the giants and was in 1st rd tender territory?

Would the Redskins only pay out a 2nd rd pick in compensation, since they don't have a 1st.
Anyone here know the specifics on this?
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Xfaxtor


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cant match the offer since you dont have the picks to pay for the compensation...
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 2871
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xfaxtor wrote:
You cant match the offer since you dont have the picks to pay for the compensation...


Actually..after some research. It's the Giants who have to match the offer.

Now the only question is...Can the Redskins even bid on the services of Victor Cruz, since the Redskins do not have a 1st rd pick?

Here is some research I found on this subject from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restricted_free_agent

Quote:
NFL

In the National Football League, a restricted free agent (RFA) is one with three accrued seasons of service, who has received a "qualifying" offer (a salary level predetermined by the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the league and its players) from his current club. He can negotiate with any club through a certain date. If the restricted free agent accepts an offer sheet from a new club, his old club has "right of first refusal," a seven-day period in which it may match the offer and retain him, or choose not to match the offer, in which case it may receive one or more draft picks for the upcoming draft from the player's new club. If an offer sheet is not executed, the player's rights revert to his old club the day after negotiations must end.
Tender amounts

In 2007, a second-round tender offer was added, and after the 2011 lockout, the top tender was removed. The three tender amounts for 2012 are as follows:[1]
Tender amount Compensation required
$2.742 million First-round
$1.927 million Second-round
$1.26 million Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)


Each player that signs a tender receives the one-year salary that corresponds to the tender level. Teams which choose not to match an offer on a player with a low tender receive a draft pick corresponding to the round in which the player was originally drafted (except that the highest pick that can be surrendered for such a tender is a second-round pick). For example, a player who was originally drafted in the sixth round of the NFL Draft would force the team signing him to give his former team a sixth-round pick in the upcoming draft as compensation for his service. No compensation is required for an undrafted player on the lowest tender amount, so teams with valued undrafted RFAs are taking a notable risk by offering such tenders. (The top tender prior to 2011 required first- and third-round picks as compensation.)
Examples of possible outcomes

In addition to the following outcomes, if a player does not receive an offer sheet from his original team, he becomes an unrestricted free agent. If a player signs the offer sheet from his original team, he remains with that team.

Team declining to match offer sheet. Carolina Panthers cornerback Ricky Manning, Jr. was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. Based on the tender placed on Manning by the Panthers, the team would receive a third-round pick in the NFL Draft if Manning signed with another team. On April 21, the Chicago Bears signed Manning to an offer sheet - a five-year contract worth up to $23 million. Although the Panthers had a full week to decide if they wanted to match the offer sheet, they announced on April 24 that they would not match. At this time, Manning became a member of the Bears and the Panthers received a third-round draft choice in the 2006 draft from Chicago.

Team matching offer sheet. Arizona Cardinals offensive guard Reggie Wells was a restricted free agent in the 2006 offseason. On March 17, the Buffalo Bills signed him to an offer sheet - a five-year deal worth approximately $18 million. Four days later on March 21, the Cardinals matched the Bills' offer sheet for Wells, and he reverted to the Cardinals.

Team consummating a trade. The Miami Dolphins offered wide receiver Wes Welker a second-round tender in 2007. Although it was widely rumored that the New England Patriots would offer Welker a seven-year, $35 million deal, the Patriots ultimately traded their second- and seventh-round draft picks to the Dolphins for Welker, signing Welker to a five-year, $18 million contract.


This situation, will be interesting.

Because if the Giants do not settle for a contract offer with Cruz, then he can go negotiate with the other 31 other teams with a certain date/time.

If any of those teams offer Cruz a tender, the Giants have a "right of first refusal" and 7 days to match the offer.

Read the green.
Very interesting.
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Xfaxtor


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Xfaxtor wrote:
You cant match the offer since you dont have the picks to pay for the compensation...


Actually..after some research. It's the Giants who have to match the offer.

.


Sorry used the wrong words. You cant offer him a contract since you cant pay the compensation...
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing is for sure, the Giants better match any offers that are 1.26M on Cruz. Because the Giants would get NOTHING in return for Cruz.

The Redskins don't have a 1st rd pick, so can they ONLY offer a 1.927M dollar tender(2nd rd tender)?
Very likely, but I'm still not 100% sure on that. The quoted info doesn't explain that part for us.

Quote:

$2.742 million First-round
$1.927 million Second-round
$1.26 million Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)


If I'm Bruce, I'm all over offering the 2nd rd tender of 1.927M and calling the Giants bluff.
I would be more than willing to trade a 2nd rd pick for WR Victor Cruz, if the Giants don't match. (although there are guys like Bowe, Wallce & Jennings as UFA's.

You guys would be crazy to not resign Cruz.
We're 6-0 in the Division, if it isn't for Cruz, gentleman.

But yea..me?
2nd rd pick for a #1 WR, paired with Garcon?
I'd be all over it!
Cool
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 12270
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are the least informed poster ever.

If we put a 1st round tender on him, which we will if he doesn't get a long-term contract, then you HAVE to offer a first. You don't have one. So you can't get him.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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Save The Hero


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 7605
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
One thing is for sure, the Giants better match any offers that are 1.26M on Cruz. Because the Giants would get NOTHING in return for Cruz.

The Redskins don't have a 1st rd pick, so can they ONLY offer a 1.927M dollar tender(2nd rd tender)?
Very likely, but I'm still not 100% sure on that. The quoted info doesn't explain that part for us.

Quote:

$2.742 million First-round
$1.927 million Second-round
$1.26 million Determined by RFA's original draft status (see below)


If I'm Bruce, I'm all over offering the 2nd rd tender of 1.927M and calling the Giants bluff.
I would be more than willing to trade a 2nd rd pick for WR Victor Cruz, if the Giants don't match. (although there are guys like Bowe, Wallce & Jennings as UFA's.

You guys would be crazy to not resign Cruz.
We're 6-0 in the Division, if it isn't for Cruz, gentleman.

But yea..me?
2nd rd pick for a #1 WR, paired with Garcon?
I'd be all over it!
Cool


Its the Giants that offer the tender and then teams who have the compensation can offer a contract to him and pay the money plus the tender.

So if the Giants offer him a 1st round tender, the team offering a contract must have the compensation to give and then offer an amount the Giants will not match.

So are you willing to give a 1st round pick (granted if you'd have one) and a big contract?
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
You are the least informed poster ever.

If we put a 1st round tender on him, which we will if he doesn't get a long-term contract, then you HAVE to offer a first. You don't have one. So you can't get him.


You are incorrect, minuteman.

Read the fine print in RED for the truth, in the quoted post.

Thank you.
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
You are the least informed poster ever.

If we put a 1st round tender on him, which we will if he doesn't get a long-term contract, then you HAVE to offer a first. You don't have one. So you can't get him.


You are incorrect, minuteman.

Read the fine print in RED for the truth, in the quoted post.

Thank you.


I did read it. Did you? If we refuse to match and put a first round tender on him, you owe us a first round pick. You do not have a first round pick. What about that is so hard to understand?

You are notorious for making the most simple concepts seem so difficult.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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minutemancl


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way it would be possible for you to get him if/when we put the first round tender on him is if you can offer future 1st round picks (I don't know if you can or not, or if you can, how far in the future they can be). Even then, when do you have a first round pick? 2, 3 years from now?
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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Conquest8089


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelers had a similar situation last offseason with Mike Wallace. Rather then Tendering him a First, they slapped the Franchise Tag on him.

I think the Giants would be comfortable loosing Cruz for a 1st Rounder. Making Nicks the priority is intriguing. Good time to negotiate a longterm deal as he's coming off an injury riddled year. Cruz is the complement to Nicks, who was a top 5 wideout in the league during the Giants Super Bowl Run.

Who would be willing to part with a 1st Rounder for Cruz? I think San Francisco is a possibility, as is Minnesota. The latter would be more willing if they ultimately trade Percy Harvin.
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HakeemTheDream


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Steelers had a similar situation last offseason with Mike Wallace. Rather then Tendering him a First, they slapped the Franchise Tag on him.

I think the Giants would be comfortable loosing Cruz for a 1st Rounder. Making Nicks the priority is intriguing. Good time to negotiate a longterm deal as he's coming off an injury riddled year. Cruz is the complement to Nicks, who was a top 5 wideout in the league during the Giants Super Bowl Run.

Who would be willing to part with a 1st Rounder for Cruz? I think San Francisco is a possibility, as is Minnesota. The latter would be more willing if they ultimately trade Percy Harvin.


I'd be comfortable with a 1st round compensation for Cruz. Eli has shown that he can make a number of players produce at their highest potential. It allows them to focus on Nicks contract (which Schefter said was priority over Cruz today) and gives Randle a chance to start and be an impact. They can either draft a WR in the mid-rounds, or sign some FAs (maybe their own in Hixon and Barden) and give Jernigan a shot. It's not a bad WR corps even without Cruz. Unproven, yes, but bad? No.

Another thought... let's just offer the Vikings Cruz for Percy straight up? Laughing
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case Ace is still confused

Quote:

No. RT ‏@acgott Can a team with no 1st round pick sign a restricted FA with 1st pick tender



https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/298184853176848384

That is from Andrew Brandt, former Packers executive
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cruz's Agent Malik Shareef is an up and coming one, who would benefit from appearing as the Winner in this negotiation. This might lead to him overplaying his hand, requesting too much money to keep Cruz in Blue.

On the other side is Cruz's off the field endeavors. Only earning $ 540,000 on the field in 2012, he clearly earned more off it with endorsements from Foot Locker, Pepsi, Time Warner, Campbell's Soup & Got Milk. These deals were negotiated by IMG.

There is a strain between IMG & Shareef. Malik is out to get his Client a major payday, but IMG is concerned his demands will not be meet & Cruz will test RFA Waters.

Cruz's marketability would decline significantly in any other market. New York is the top Media Market in the country. The Giants appear willing to let Cruz test FA Waters, with a first round compensation should he sign elsewhere.

In the next week, Cruz will fire Malik Shareef and hire an Agent that understands the Guaranteed money in his contract is only one element of his concern. He cannot alienate the fan base with a prolonged negotiation, which will hurt his marketability. He cannot sign with say Minnesota or even San Francisco- which will hurt his marketability. The latter is more of a possibility and an option Shareef could use as leverage in negotiations with the Giants.

IMG will want the guy that has advertisements with Foot Locker, Campbell's Soup, Tim Warner, Pepsi & Got Milk to remain in NY. They'd be crazy not to.
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NYGiantsman10


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man I really dont want to see Cruz playing somewhere else. But you have to trust the Giants' FO
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