Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Why Jon Hankins is the right choice for Saints at 15:
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: I am in agreement with you, worm Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
MPjeffryred wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
In all honesty, looking at how this roster stacks up for a 34 I kinda wanna see how our current players pan out...

Jordan & Hicks on the ends should become a staple of the defense.
Bunkley has the ability to hold his own at NT.
Galette & Wilson could be terrors on the edge.
Lofton & Hawthorne seems like a stout tandem inside.

It's actually the secondary where my questions come in and I'd love to see a major shake up here. I know a lot of fans wanna see a pass rusher or nose tackle selected with that 15th pick but my personal preference is to trade down for picks and then select either a safety or cornerback. I really don't care which, just the one the new DC covets.

As I look at the front seven I'm comfortable going into next season giving these players there shot in this scheme but the back end I honestly don't feel comfortable with any of these guys!

Greer is aging and battles injuries the last few seasons.
Robinson is talented but extremely inconsistent!
White is young but in no way am I ready to call him a starting NFL corner.
Harper is way over paid and can't cover anything anymore.
Jenkins has all the talent in the world but his mental lapses and shoody tackling cost games.

I just can't find it to trust any of these guys... I think we need to start an overhaul in this secondary.

Desmond Trufant
Jonathan Banks
Kenny Vaccaro
Matt Elam
Eric Reid
Jonathan Cyprien
David Amerson

I don't care, I think any of them could help us... I just see our secondary as our biggest concern. Trust me, I get the want of the next Aldon Smith but who knows what Wilson and Galette will become in this scheme. Maybe we already have the next big thing at OLB but I doubt any of these cats in this secondary make the big jump next season.


I also think that the existing talent up front for a 34 defense will be more sufficient than the secondary will be. I too, think that trading down and picking up a second and later third (we trade our earlier third rounder) is the way to go. I would love to have Trufant and perhaps a safety as well, such as Cyprien who might be there in the late third round.
With the second rounder, I would seek an LOT such as Aboushi or Long. I do think Bushrod may be too expensive and I did not consider him to be elite, only competent.
The key for a NT is to have a push. I can see Hicks spending some time there, especially in passing downs. There may be some affordable free agent DE's much cheaper than Will Smith available as well this offseason.


Actually in the majority of the 3-4 schemes, the key for a NT is to not get pushed off the LOS. Basically to take up 2 guys and stay at the LOS and if possible push back into the backfield.

Especially in the 2 gap scheme we'll be using if Romeo is hired. The NTs job is essentially to take up the C and one of the Gs depending on playcall. Basically, just don't lose any ground. In a 2 gap scheme, all you really need is a big body, which is why I feel we can wait to draft one.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17306
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I am in agreement with you, worm Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
MPjeffryred wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
In all honesty, looking at how this roster stacks up for a 34 I kinda wanna see how our current players pan out...

Jordan & Hicks on the ends should become a staple of the defense.
Bunkley has the ability to hold his own at NT.
Galette & Wilson could be terrors on the edge.
Lofton & Hawthorne seems like a stout tandem inside.

It's actually the secondary where my questions come in and I'd love to see a major shake up here. I know a lot of fans wanna see a pass rusher or nose tackle selected with that 15th pick but my personal preference is to trade down for picks and then select either a safety or cornerback. I really don't care which, just the one the new DC covets.

As I look at the front seven I'm comfortable going into next season giving these players there shot in this scheme but the back end I honestly don't feel comfortable with any of these guys!

Greer is aging and battles injuries the last few seasons.
Robinson is talented but extremely inconsistent!
White is young but in no way am I ready to call him a starting NFL corner.
Harper is way over paid and can't cover anything anymore.
Jenkins has all the talent in the world but his mental lapses and shoody tackling cost games.

I just can't find it to trust any of these guys... I think we need to start an overhaul in this secondary.

Desmond Trufant
Jonathan Banks
Kenny Vaccaro
Matt Elam
Eric Reid
Jonathan Cyprien
David Amerson

I don't care, I think any of them could help us... I just see our secondary as our biggest concern. Trust me, I get the want of the next Aldon Smith but who knows what Wilson and Galette will become in this scheme. Maybe we already have the next big thing at OLB but I doubt any of these cats in this secondary make the big jump next season.


I also think that the existing talent up front for a 34 defense will be more sufficient than the secondary will be. I too, think that trading down and picking up a second and later third (we trade our earlier third rounder) is the way to go. I would love to have Trufant and perhaps a safety as well, such as Cyprien who might be there in the late third round.
With the second rounder, I would seek an LOT such as Aboushi or Long. I do think Bushrod may be too expensive and I did not consider him to be elite, only competent.
The key for a NT is to have a push. I can see Hicks spending some time there, especially in passing downs. There may be some affordable free agent DE's much cheaper than Will Smith available as well this offseason.


Actually in the majority of the 3-4 schemes, the key for a NT is to not get pushed off the LOS. Basically to take up 2 guys and stay at the LOS and if possible push back into the backfield.

Especially in the 2 gap scheme we'll be using if Romeo is hired. The NTs job is essentially to take up the C and one of the Gs depending on playcall. Basically, just don't lose any ground. In a 2 gap scheme, all you really need is a big body, which is why I feel we can wait to draft one.


That's not true though. If all you need is a big body then no teams would ever spend 1st rounders on NTs in a 3-4. You need a big body with ridiculous lower body strength and good quickness out of his stance to get to the LOS, maybe not behind it but at least too it. Hand usage helps but isn't needed, in those schemes you need someone who's lower body will be strong enough to go against two guys of equal strength, a 6'4 400lb guy can still be worse than a 6' 300lb guy if the 300lb guy lower body is that much stronger than then 400lb guy
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17306
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Terrance Cody would've been a 1st rounder had he not had legit weight concerns and dropped back into his old habits.

IIRC Pittsburgh and San Diego both recently used 1st rounders on NTs that are currently learning from their vets/moving out to DE to get them on the field.

But you really don't find that many big bodies with the lower body strength to effectively play the NT position. There is only one players that is not going to be a 1st rounder, as of right now, that would fit the role well and he might end up a late 1st/mid 2nd rounder by end of the combine.
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Terrance Cody would've been a 1st rounder had he not had legit weight concerns and dropped back into his old habits.

IIRC Pittsburgh and San Diego both recently used 1st rounders on NTs that are currently learning from their vets/moving out to DE to get them on the field.

But you really don't find that many big bodies with the lower body strength to effectively play the NT position. There is only one players that is not going to be a 1st rounder, as of right now, that would fit the role well and he might end up a late 1st/mid 2nd rounder by end of the combine.

The Chargers and Steelers drafted 3-4 DEs in the first, not NTs. If you look at a majority of 3-4 NTs, they're drafted late with the exception of ELITE prospects. If I had to choose a NT, I would pick Sylvester Williams from UNC, in the 3rd.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3132
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Also these guys… Poe was drafted by Crennel himself to be his NT in his 34 scheme at 11th overall so depending on the player and the caliber of the prospect as well as the value your staff puts into the position, Yes they are coveted that highly.

2013 Chiefs: Dontari Poe
2012 Browns: Phil Taylor
2010 Cardinals: Dan Williams
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Also these guys… Poe was drafted by Crennel himself to be his NT in his 34 scheme at 11th overall so depending on the player and the caliber of the prospect as well as the value your staff puts into the position, Yes they are coveted that highly.

2013 Chiefs: Dontari Poe
2012 Browns: Phil Taylor
2010 Cardinals: Dan Williams

Phil Taylor is a 3-4 DE, not NT.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3132
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Also these guys… Poe was drafted by Crennel himself to be his NT in his 34 scheme at 11th overall so depending on the player and the caliber of the prospect as well as the value your staff puts into the position, Yes they are coveted that highly.

2013 Chiefs: Dontari Poe
2012 Browns: Phil Taylor
2010 Cardinals: Dan Williams

Phil Taylor is a 3-4 DE, not NT.


Actually he's a 43 NT... Was drafted when - Juron was hired but a lot of the 34 teams that drat had 1st round grades on him as a 34 NT, it was just that he was drafted to play in a 43.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
No doubt, but its very easy to find big men with strong lower bodies. Its much harder to find a guy who can rush the passer effectively, man up with TEs and shed blocks and not many teams use first round picks on NTs. The only one I can think off of the top of my head recently is Vince Wilfork, and he was the best NT prospect to come out in quite some time. Oh also BJ Raji, but again, he was an elite prospect.


Also these guys… Poe was drafted by Crennel himself to be his NT in his 34 scheme at 11th overall so depending on the player and the caliber of the prospect as well as the value your staff puts into the position, Yes they are coveted that highly.

2013 Chiefs: Dontari Poe
2012 Browns: Phil Taylor
2010 Cardinals: Dan Williams

Phil Taylor is a 3-4 DE, not NT.


Actually he's a 43 NT... Was drafted when - Juron was hired but a lot of the 34 teams that drat had 1st round grades on him as a 34 NT, it was just that he was drafted to play in a 43.

He's played in the 3-4 in Cleveland I believe, and he was a 3-4 DE.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3132
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was drafted when Pat shurmer was hired and Juron became the DC in Cleveland. He's been in a 43 for last two years. Ray Horton there now and will likely play 34 end only because the Browns also have Rubin as well and he'll get the nod at NT.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19753
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
He was drafted when Pat shurmer was hired and Juron became the DC in Cleveland. He's been in a 43 for last two years. Ray Horton there now and will likely play 34 end only because the Browns also have Rubin as well and he'll get the nod at NT.

I swear I've heard from Browns fans he's a 3-4 DE. Regardless, the number of top NTs drafted late outweigh the ones drafted early. I feel as if its a position thats much easier to find late.
_________________

RTR
#Keepitonehunna
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group