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Why Jon Hankins is the right choice for Saints at 15:
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Why Jon Hankins is the right choice for Saints at 15: Reply with quote



1st let me start off by saying that it is my personal opinion that the right move for this franchise would be to trade back and stockpile draft picks but that is always easier said than done. Finding a trade partner is always easy, agreeing to compensation for the trade is the tough part. In the end I think the Saints will explore trade options but will take advantage of their rare opportunity in the top 15 selections to land an impact player for their defense.

So, why big John Hankins?

I have thought a lot about what could have been going through Sean Paytonís mind this offseason. Not only watching his defense stink up the league becoming an embarrassment and the butt of a lot of jokes throughout this past season but also seeing the read option take the NFL by storm on offense had to make Payton realize that will only get worse if he didnít take action upon his return.

I honestly feel that Paytonís decision to finally switch to the 34 defense centers around a couple factorsÖ

1. The 34 defense would get the most out of our young defensive core.
This is true. For years this could not be a reason for this switch until now. Will Smith, Jonathan Vilma and other veteran players simply arenít the future on this franchise any longer and how they fit into certain schemes isnít a consideration for this club anymore. Those guys have been replaced with players like Lofton, Jenkins, Jordan, Hicks, Galette and Wilson. This is your new core defensively on this team and yes, their skill sets best suit this switch.

2. Do to the read option, the Saints need better athletes on the field and the 34 gives us that.
This is also very true. Cam Jordan was a very good player last season on the left side but heíll be even more dynamic on the inside as a 34 end. This allows the Saints to replace Jordan and the aging Will Smith on the edge with younger more athletic defenders like Junior Galette and Martez Wilson. This scheme also allows the Saints to utilize the unique skill set of their impressive rookie Akiem Hicks next season as a starting end as well as allowing both Curtis Lofton and David Hawthorne to get back to their more natural positions as inside linebackers. Lofton will likely be viewed as the inside thumper while Hawthorne has the ability to be a coverage backer in a 34 scheme. Iím quite sure another reason for this switch is the idea that if the Saints are able to create more pressure with their front 7, then their defensive secondary will reap the most benefits because of it.

The problem I have with this theory is if the idea of the switch was to get the most out of their young core, then wouldnít you do what is necessary to put these players in the best position to become successful? Thatís when it hit me.

While I believe Brodrick Bunkley can and would be a serviceable nose tackle in this 34 scheme, if the goal is truly to get the most out of our edge players (Jordan, Hicks, Galette & Wilson) then we need to get a player that will make those guys around him better. Bunkley isnít a slouch but by no way do I feel that his presence will elevate the play of those around him. While Bunkley is a stout run defender, he lacks the girth to be a space eater at times and heís never been known as a penetrator either. Combine all this to the fact that Bunkley is sitting on a fairly big contract I just donít see how this team could bypass a prospect like Jonathan Hankins of Ohio State.

Look, like him or hate him the one thing about Hankins is that he is a massive space eater with great athletic ability for his size. He has the ability to penetrate as well and being extremely versatile to boot having played the 0, 1, 3 & 5 for the Buckeyes. Hankins by his pure presence alone will command a double team in the center of the 34 scheme. I canít say that for Bunkley. There Will be times that in a 34 (1 or 2 gap) that your NT will be required to become a space eater and this is something Bunkley will not be able to do. Hankins presence will draw attention away from players like Jordan, Hicks, Galette and Wilson away from the edges creating more one on one situation for our pass rushers.

Understand meÖ Iím not saying that Bunkley is a scrub, only that I think we all are kind of short handing exactly what is asked of the 34 NT and the fact that a lot of those things do not fit the skill set of what we currently have at the position. The nose tackle is still the most important position in the 34 scheme and if you donít have a guy that can do it all for you on the inside and you have a chance to land himÖ you do so!

Jonathan Hankins might not be the popular or sexy pickÖ but there are valid arguments that can be made to support him as the right pick.


WHODAT
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we first made the switch I didn't like Bunkley at NT for the very reasons you just explained. If you think that trading back is what we should do, and taking a NT is what we will do, then why not do both? Brandon Williams in an intriguing prospect that is more than big enough to play NT in a 3-4 at the next level. You know the Saints love those small school guys!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
When we first made the switch I didn't like Bunkley at NT for the very reasons you just explained. If you think that trading back is what we should do, and taking a NT is what we will do, then why not do both? Brandon Williams in an intriguing prospect that is more than big enough to play NT in a 3-4 at the next level. You know the Saints love those small school guys!


Very good possibility... I actually love Brandon Williams as a NT prospect but i'm basing this on if the Saints are forced to make the selection at 15 and if that is the case, as much as I like Williams... Hankins is clearly the better overall athlete.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey whodatworm! Very Happy

Glad to see you're getting as much out of the site as you are; Looks like you've been a busy bee as of late, and why not? It's draft season, which is the best time of year for many of us.

I was asked to come in here to talk about some of the many threads you've started up - while the excitement is understandable, the resources needed to open up SO many threads at once is something that puts considerable strain on the servers that support the site as a whole - making so many in such a short time leads to lag, and makes for a cluttered front page.

My idea to you: Let's choose one of these threads and make it your "OFFICIAL" draft talk thread - that way, the whole forum will know where to go to, it won't present a major issue to the servers and will make the viewing experience much more enjoyable for all members of our site.

Let me know what specific thread you would like to make as your "OFFICIAL" thread, and I'll help you make it happen. Very Happy

Thanks!

- ET
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... with the lack of threads/action in here I didn't think it would make that much of a difference... either way, OK.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hankins would be a great option at #15 to play NT over Bunkley and would be an immediate upgrade. He reminds me of a better run stuffing BJ Raji. Many teams used two different ways to scheme against Hankins all year, they either ran a bubble screen spread offense that didn't give Hankins time to make much of a pass rush, or they doubled or even triple teamed him to try and keep his impact minimal. This opened up the rest of the defensive line to make plays and it showed with how much production that defensive line had.

Now people want to try and criticize his fitness because he's so large, but considering he was over 400 in HS and was told to get down to 360 if he wanted to go to Ohio State, got there, then got down to 320 that he was listed at in 3 years with immense lower body strength, which is much more important for a 3-4 NT than his hands as his lower body strength will determine the amount of push into the pocket he has and how often they have to double team him, and the fact he was in on almost every Ohio State defensive play and would constantly chase down plays on the other side of the field, I have no problem picking up Hankins at #15 and think he would be a great pick there.

But who knows what happens by draft day.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to ask a player to play his 3rd position in as many years. Tez should move back inside. Which means we need an OLB. We can pick up that NT from Missouri Southern (I think) in a later round. As OLB is more of a need IMO.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
I don't want to ask a player to play his 3rd position in as many years. Tez should move back inside. Which means we need an OLB. We can pick up that NT from Missouri Southern (I think) in a later round. As OLB is more of a need IMO.


OLB isn't much different than DE in a 3-4 defense and even then Tez played ILB in college, SLB and then DE for us. His responsibilities will be a combination of the DE and SLB positions.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really just don't like Hankins as a prospect.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I really just don't like Hankins as a prospect.


Explain why with legit reasons that haven't been already shot down at one point or another.

You called him lazy I pointed out that he played the majority of Ohio States defensive snaps and was routinely chasing down plays.

You said he got no push, well I can easily go get his highlight video of this year which will show how often he's disrupting both the passing and rushing games, but when you don't look at simple stats you see most teams either ran spread and bubble screens against Ohio State keeping plays away from Hankins or double teamed him.

You said he doesn't use his hands well, well a 3-4 NT needs to eat space and take up double teams, that's more of a lower body strength which no one can deny that Hankins has.

So really what is there not to like? That he played at Ohio State?

I don't like Matt Elam because he plays out of control and constantly makes boneheaded plays like late hits/leading with the helmet etc especially when things aren't going well, but outside of that I love his game. I can also go and find numerous examples of him making such plays so my reasons for disliking Elam are legit.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad Nix went back to college. He is a far better NT than Hankins. Its not that Hankins is a bad pick...but at least we have a decent NT on the roster. We don't have a SOLB at all. If JJ, Werner, or Jordan is there...this one is a no brainer. We can get NT depth in FA or later rounds.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Too bad Nix went back to college. He is a far better NT than Hankins. Its not that Hankins is a bad pick...but at least we have a decent NT on the roster. We don't have a SOLB at all. If JJ, Werner, or Jordan is there...this one is a no brainer. We can get NT depth in FA or later rounds.


Werner as an OLB in a 34 would be a bust in my opinion... dude does not have the athletic ability to play in space. He's best at doing what he does, putting his hand in the dirt.

After really looking into JJ I would pass on him even at 15... just to much of a risk, Saints can't miss on this pick and can't afford a player that could honestly have a 4 year max productive career.

I like Jordan and Agree Nix would have been the cream of the crop at NT here. I do however feel Hankins would be a top level 34 NT in the NFL too though.
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thesolution


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Worm you never sleep. I mite can't come and post as I often use to but I read everything you post. Keep it up. .Hankins would be a great pick only if they plan on keeping both Hawthrone and Lofton. Hawkins and Hicks will keep them guys clean from guards. They both can be tackling machine again .
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesolution wrote:
Wow Worm you never sleep. I mite can't come and post as I often use to but I read everything you post. Keep it up. .Hankins would be a great pick only if they plan on keeping both Hawthrone and Lofton. Hawkins and Hicks will keep them guys clean from guards. They both can be tackling machine again .


Thanks,

Nagh... work the graveyard shift, lots of free time! Laughing

I also think Lofton and Hawthorne will be a solid duo inside. I at one point thought Heater was on his way out but he is a good coverage linebacker from the inside. Lofton could be the thumper while Heater is the coverage backer.

Will they be the best duo in the NFL? NO!

Will they be the worst? Not by a long shot...
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I really just don't like Hankins as a prospect.


Explain why with legit reasons that haven't been already shot down at one point or another.

You called him lazy I pointed out that he played the majority of Ohio States defensive snaps and was routinely chasing down plays.

You said he got no push, well I can easily go get his highlight video of this year which will show how often he's disrupting both the passing and rushing games, but when you don't look at simple stats you see most teams either ran spread and bubble screens against Ohio State keeping plays away from Hankins or double teamed him.

You said he doesn't use his hands well, well a 3-4 NT needs to eat space and take up double teams, that's more of a lower body strength which no one can deny that Hankins has.

So really what is there not to like? That he played at Ohio State?

I don't like Matt Elam because he plays out of control and constantly makes boneheaded plays like late hits/leading with the helmet etc especially when things aren't going well, but outside of that I love his game. I can also go and find numerous examples of him making such plays so my reasons for disliking Elam are legit.

I'm on my phone but I've given plenty of examples and you make excuses for him, I'm done arguing about it, and since when do I hate OSU players? I loved Jenkins when he came out and was pumpe when we drafted him but he's disappointed since then.
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