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DaMike


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
Why would we want to pay him LT money to play LG though? Especially when he isn't that great of a player.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
Why would we want to pay him LT money to play LG though? Especially when he isn't that great of a player.


And what is LT money? Because as a LT he got $4.75m a year from the Saints in his last deal...if we can get him for a similar price then he isn't being paid true LT money.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
Why would we want to pay him LT money to play LG though? Especially when he isn't that great of a player.


And what is LT money? Because as a LT he got $4.75m a year from the Saints in his last deal...if we can get him for a similar price then he isn't being paid true LT money.

Meaning top tier LT money right?
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
Why would we want to pay him LT money to play LG though? Especially when he isn't that great of a player.


And what is LT money? Because as a LT he got $4.75m a year from the Saints in his last deal...if we can get him for a similar price then he isn't being paid true LT money.
I can see him getting $6 mil + per year. That's a lot for a position change and crossing your fingers.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the toughest sell is going to be convince Jermon Bushrod to switch positions.

He has made 2 Pro Bowls, this season not deserving, and it might be tough to ask a 2 time Pro Bowl player to switch positions.

Now money talks, but if that is our plan we may have to pay a little more because he is taking a risk.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posed the question to the Saints forum,

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=513098&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think we need to just secure an OL position either LT, RT or LG and then build from there.

The cheapest option for upgrading and securing a position would be at RT and we could do a couple of things,

-Draft interior OLmen, because this draft has a ton.

-Give Kromer a year to work with Webb at LT.

-Permanently move Carimi to OG and avoid the Chris Williams back and forth.

-John Scott stays as a back up because he is a backup always has been.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know people shouted me down last time I suggested it but I think if we sign an OT the guy we look at is Gosder Cherilus and here me out.



Pro Football Focus 2nd rated RT

Stud: That was the best we’ve seen Gosder Cherilus (+26.3) look, but, like the line in general, a lot of that came courtesy of not giving up much in pass protection, as opposed to mauling guys in the run game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/

Bill Polian gives him an A rating.

Solid, but nothing spectacular, Cherilus has no glaring deficiencies. Solid tackles are hard to come by, but with lots of linemen in the draft, it might drive down the money for linemen in this free-agent class. GMs know that, and it will be reflected in their offers. I put him with the A's because he's been a reasonably good starter for a time.

What he does for the Bears

-Cost is a huge factor as the top end for Cherilus is 4-5 million while Bushrod who was 25 points lower on the PFF stats will cost 6-7 and Levitre could cost even more.

-He gives the Bears an unquestioned starter at RT and a big physical player that has played in a pass heavy offense.

-He hurts the Lions who are in a cap crunch.

-He allows the Bears to have Webb at LT to develop with Kromer and in the Trestman offense to see if we have to invest in a new LT.

-Allows Carimi to just compete at OG without being pulled back and forth every time John Scott struggles.

-Allows the Bears to make value picks at interior OL and not have to move and possibly reach at OT, which are harder to draft.


Even Lions fans don't want him to go

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512698&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy I'm liking right now in free agency is Levitre. Most importantly I think there is a good chance he becomes available seeing as Buffalo may need to tag Byrd.

Levitre would bring a great deal of flexibility seeing as he has played C as windy noted. Assuming Louis is back at one guard spot and Webb will start at one of the T spots you can then grab the best OL prospect available even if its a guard and forces Levitre to C.

Now perhaps that's not ideal but that would reflect a significant upgrade in the middle and it would be hard to be upset about that.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
I wonder if Jermon Bushrod would come here if we told him he may play LG?...

If we would it would give us much better options come draft day…if a guy like Lane Johnson is on the board he could be the pick to plat LT with Bushrod inside and if there isn’t any LTs left on the board when we are picking we can go for the best interior linemen or BPA at another position and still all Bushrod to compete for the LT spot…if he was willing to play inside he has the size for it and will know what is going to be asked of him by Kromer so the transition would be smoother than with some other free agents.
I dont think we pay to pay a LT, LT money and then hope he can play LG. That's a bad business decision.


I think the valuation of the guard position is changing rapidly tho…guys like Nicks, Evans, Joseph, Mankins, Yanda, Grubbs, Kuper, Sitton, Lang, Blalock, Dahl are all guys who will be making $4 million + next year…some will be making far more than that…teams are willing to pay money to secure the inside of the pocket…I don’t think Bushrod will make real LT money so brining him in as an “Olinemen” rather than just an OT it would open us up to more options come draft days.
All those guys that have big contracts received them because of how well they played OG. None of those guys played LT then signed a big contract to play OG. I'd rather have others guys who have played OG for much less money.


I'm aware of that...but what I am saying is we shouldn't limit ourselves to brining in a guy to play one position and promise him that if we then get to the draft and find ourselves in a position to find a long term solution...same goes for if we sign a guy like Levitre then get to the draft and Chance Warmack is on the board...if Levitre moves to centre that would be our best line-up...signing Bushrod as an Olinemen rather than simply an OT makes alot of sense for us moving forward...especially considering I doubt he gets big money on the open market.
Why would we want to pay him LT money to play LG though? Especially when he isn't that great of a player.


And what is LT money? Because as a LT he got $4.75m a year from the Saints in his last deal...if we can get him for a similar price then he isn't being paid true LT money.

Meaning top tier LT money right?


Yeah he won't be making $8 million + or anything close to that IMO.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiscbearsfan wrote:
The guy I'm liking right now in free agency is Levitre. Most importantly I think there is a good chance he becomes available seeing as Buffalo may need to tag Byrd.

Levitre would bring a great deal of flexibility seeing as he has played C as windy noted. Assuming Louis is back at one guard spot and Webb will start at one of the T spots you can then grab the best OL prospect available even if its a guard and forces Levitre to C.

Now perhaps that's not ideal but that would reflect a significant upgrade in the middle and it would be hard to be upset about that.


My only fear is that he is going to get paid a lot and then might switch position like our Bushrod idea.

Levitre would be a great signing, but too me he would need to be accompanied by an OT in some form. There is NO way we can go into the season with Scott and Carimi at RT.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I know people shouted me down last time I suggested it but I think if we sign an OT the guy we look at is Gosder Cherilus and here me out.



Pro Football Focus 2nd rated RT

Stud: That was the best we’ve seen Gosder Cherilus (+26.3) look, but, like the line in general, a lot of that came courtesy of not giving up much in pass protection, as opposed to mauling guys in the run game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/

Bill Polian gives him an A rating.

Solid, but nothing spectacular, Cherilus has no glaring deficiencies. Solid tackles are hard to come by, but with lots of linemen in the draft, it might drive down the money for linemen in this free-agent class. GMs know that, and it will be reflected in their offers. I put him with the A's because he's been a reasonably good starter for a time.

What he does for the Bears

-Cost is a huge factor as the top end for Cherilus is 4-5 million while Bushrod who was 25 points lower on the PFF stats will cost 6-7 and Levitre could cost even more.

-He gives the Bears an unquestioned starter at RT and a big physical player that has played in a pass heavy offense.

-He hurts the Lions who are in a cap crunch.

-He allows the Bears to have Webb at LT to develop with Kromer and in the Trestman offense to see if we have to invest in a new LT.

-Allows Carimi to just compete at OG without being pulled back and forth every time John Scott struggles.

-Allows the Bears to make value picks at interior OL and not have to move and possibly reach at OT, which are harder to draft.


Even Lions fans don't want him to go

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512698&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
w/ the Lions cutting Peterman, its extremely doubtful that they allow Cherilous to walk.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
I know people shouted me down last time I suggested it but I think if we sign an OT the guy we look at is Gosder Cherilus and here me out.



Pro Football Focus 2nd rated RT

Stud: That was the best we’ve seen Gosder Cherilus (+26.3) look, but, like the line in general, a lot of that came courtesy of not giving up much in pass protection, as opposed to mauling guys in the run game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/

Bill Polian gives him an A rating.

Solid, but nothing spectacular, Cherilus has no glaring deficiencies. Solid tackles are hard to come by, but with lots of linemen in the draft, it might drive down the money for linemen in this free-agent class. GMs know that, and it will be reflected in their offers. I put him with the A's because he's been a reasonably good starter for a time.

What he does for the Bears

-Cost is a huge factor as the top end for Cherilus is 4-5 million while Bushrod who was 25 points lower on the PFF stats will cost 6-7 and Levitre could cost even more.

-He gives the Bears an unquestioned starter at RT and a big physical player that has played in a pass heavy offense.

-He hurts the Lions who are in a cap crunch.

-He allows the Bears to have Webb at LT to develop with Kromer and in the Trestman offense to see if we have to invest in a new LT.

-Allows Carimi to just compete at OG without being pulled back and forth every time John Scott struggles.

-Allows the Bears to make value picks at interior OL and not have to move and possibly reach at OT, which are harder to draft.


Even Lions fans don't want him to go

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512698&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
w/ the Lions cutting Peterman, its extremely doubtful that they allow Cherilous to walk.


They are apparently cap screwed and the Peterman/Vanden Bosch moves were to re-sign Cliff Avril.

I think he will hit the market.

But we can secure the RT position with a cheaper option and focus our draft resources on the interior, which is easier than OT, I think we are in great shape.

I doubt after the coaches watch the film they will think Carimi can ever play OT, which leaves Webb and Scott.
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