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Cowboys' 5 and 10 year Draft Rankings
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GrassyKnoll


Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 383
Location: Denison, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next year, you forgot Crabtree Kapernick. I don't disagree with your argument, but you missed a couple.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 17200
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrassyKnoll wrote:
Next year, you forgot Crabtree Kapernick. I don't disagree with your argument, but you missed a couple.


Could have sworn I included Kaepernick. I edited it for him. Crabtree was not in the past 3 drafts.
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 3938
Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
As for the last 3 years:

Dallas Cowboys - 6 starters
Dez Bryant
Sean Lee
Tyron Smith
Bruce Carter
DeMarco Murray
Morris Claiborne

Baltimore Ravens - 6 starters
Terrence Cody
Ed Dickson
Torrey Smith
Pernell McPhee
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele

San Francisco 49ers - 6 starters
Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Bruce Miller

We may have put up a few poor drafts in '08-'09, but there aren't a lot of teams that can claim the haul we've had in the past 3 years.


No doubt our recent drafts have been much better and are hopefully indicitive of what we are going to continue to do. Let's hope we land some solid lineman on both sides of the ball.

What we can't quantify is how far back a team gets set back in their development when they miss has often as we have in 2006-2011, and when we miss as often as we have on linemen on both sides of the ball.

On a personal level I don't hate the Cowboys. I just thought it would be interesting to look at our drafts over the 2006-2011 timeframe to see how good, or poor they were. When you look at them you can see why we are struggling.
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Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outlaw 7 wrote:

Quote:
And I would say the biggest difference between Jimmy and Jerry is that one was a Head Coach, and the other wasn't.


The biggest difference was Jimmy would admit a mistake in the draft and cut him. The current gm won't.

Football Mensa wrote:
From time to time I see the comment "I don't want to derail the thread and talk about Jerry, but"....you can't help it. He is the gm. He has built the team. He has run it into the ground. He has done nothing for the last 16 years to show he is a competent gm.


Quote:
Outlaw 7
You really can. You choose not to. There is a time and a place to discuss every individual issue and success. Because you choose not to is both annoying and frustrating when a thread is derailed


How can you talk about the draft and not talk about the person drafting the players ? If so many years are failures where does that lead ? Bottom line is we have the same leader and the team has stunk at drafting. Add to it the coaches he hired influenced the draft. So what gives ? Add it all up and it's a discombobulated mess. Which personifies the Cowboys. It has nothing to do with derailing a thread. When it comes to drafting and coaching hires there is one person in charge.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:

How can you talk about the draft and not talk about the person drafting the players ? If so many years are failures where does that lead ? Bottom line is we have the same leader and the team has stunk at drafting. Add to it the coaches he hired influenced the draft. So what gives ? Add it all up and it's a discombobulated mess. Which personifies the Cowboys. It has nothing to do with derailing a thread. When it comes to drafting and coaching hires there is one person in charge.


My comments had nothing to do with this thread. The point was not EVERY thread needs to be a "I hate Jerry" thread.

Plan9 and I had a very long discussion. Nothing of it centered around Jerry in a thread that really could be used to discuss Jerry.
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Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
As for the last 3 years:

Dallas Cowboys - 6 starters
Dez Bryant
Sean Lee
Tyron Smith
Bruce Carter
DeMarco Murray
Morris Claiborne

Baltimore Ravens - 6 starters
Terrence Cody
Ed Dickson
Torrey Smith
Pernell McPhee
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele

San Francisco 49ers - 6 starters
Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Bruce Miller

We may have put up a few poor drafts in '08-'09, but there aren't a lot of teams that can claim the haul we've had in the past 3 years.


We got one lineman be it defensive or offensive. Niners took 2 o linemen in the same draft. The Ravens have drafted linemen on both sides. We get two first round picks and for some inexplicable reason we purposely draft a complimentary rb. Decisions like that is why we fail every season.
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Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:

How can you talk about the draft and not talk about the person drafting the players ? If so many years are failures where does that lead ? Bottom line is we have the same leader and the team has stunk at drafting. Add to it the coaches he hired influenced the draft. So what gives ? Add it all up and it's a discombobulated mess. Which personifies the Cowboys. It has nothing to do with derailing a thread. When it comes to drafting and coaching hires there is one person in charge.


My comments had nothing to do with this thread. The point was not EVERY thread needs to be a "I hate Jerry" thread.

Plan9 and I had a very long discussion. Nothing of it centered around Jerry in a thread that really could be used to discuss Jerry.


I agree. That's why I don't.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 17200
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
As for the last 3 years:

Dallas Cowboys - 6 starters
Dez Bryant
Sean Lee
Tyron Smith
Bruce Carter
DeMarco Murray
Morris Claiborne

Baltimore Ravens - 6 starters
Terrence Cody
Ed Dickson
Torrey Smith
Pernell McPhee
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele

San Francisco 49ers - 6 starters
Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Bruce Miller

We may have put up a few poor drafts in '08-'09, but there aren't a lot of teams that can claim the haul we've had in the past 3 years.


We got one lineman be it defensive or offensive. Niners took 2 o linemen in the same draft. The Ravens have drafted linemen on both sides. We get two first round picks and for some inexplicable reason we purposely draft a complimentary rb. Decisions like that is why we fail every season.


I don't disagree that there has been a lot of fail. Or that we need to draft some linemen. I was just trying to point out that if we are looking at recent history, there is reason for optimism as far as our drafting is concerned.
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Football Mensa


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
As for the last 3 years:

Dallas Cowboys - 6 starters
Dez Bryant
Sean Lee
Tyron Smith
Bruce Carter
DeMarco Murray
Morris Claiborne

Baltimore Ravens - 6 starters
Terrence Cody
Ed Dickson
Torrey Smith
Pernell McPhee
Courtney Upshaw
Kelechi Osemele

San Francisco 49ers - 6 starters
Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Navorro Bowman
Aldon Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Bruce Miller

We may have put up a few poor drafts in '08-'09, but there aren't a lot of teams that can claim the haul we've had in the past 3 years.


We got one lineman be it defensive or offensive. Niners took 2 o linemen in the same draft. The Ravens have drafted linemen on both sides. We get two first round picks and for some inexplicable reason we purposely draft a complimentary rb. Decisions like that is why we fail every season.


I don't disagree that there has been a lot of fail. Or that we need to draft some linemen. I was just trying to point out that if we are looking at recent history, there is reason for optimism as far as our drafting is concerned.


Agree there has been an uptick. But will they do the right thing and draft 2 linemen in a lineman strong draft ? Both o line and d line.
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buckwild


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1957
Location: Ft Worth, Tx
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the Cowboys is not their drafting in the early it drafting after the 4th round, and finding those diamonds in the rough. Which Jerry has to compensate for by signing guys in FA. In the NFL not much seperates teams talent wise, but the teams that succeed find those late round gems that compensate foe injuries that every team has to endure every year. That's why I don't use injuries as an excuse for a teams poor performance, because Green Bay had 15 players on IR the year they won the Super Bowl.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 24366
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
That's why I don't use injuries as an excuse for a teams poor performance, because Green Bay had 15 players on IR the year they won the Super Bowl.


This is why I love and hate stats. That comes across as a really impressive number. Wow. 15? But when you dig a little deeper you see that they only lost what, 2 starters? The rest were role players and back-ups. Not saying they don't have a role to play - but the impact is mitigated.

Not discrediting the notion, simply shining a light on the whole situation.
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Felix=Fast!


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 2255
Location: Amarillo Tx
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
And the rest of the drafts which caused the results to tank? What about those?

Dude, I've been on the soap box yelling at the top of my lungs that Ware was a Jerry pick, yet that isn't the whole thing. Read how the results are measured, Des.
Any stat that uses pro bowls as a plus is crap...

There is a point when your hatred for Jerry becomes illogical. I hate him too but use a better stat than that.

Truth: Parcells is not as great as you claim.
Truth: Jerry is not as bad of a GM as you think he is...that doesnt mean he is good, just not as bad as YOU say he is.
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canadaluvsdalla


Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 3351
Location: I state my opinion. You Listen. I won't change my stance.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much what boyz said above me. We always complain as fans our cowboys find the same ol recipe for disaster but as fans what are we really doing to move on and deserve to see success from them?

Here finally in years we are putting up some good consistent drafts and some of us are still here living in the parcells era complaning about our previous draft.

Well the past is past fellas. Nothing really we can do now except concentrate on the present and the future especially when we are doing a good job currently drafting with redball and I'm confident by his RKG mentality we continue to reap his results he preaches with the kind of players he wants.

No cowboy team in the past 10 years would have even pulled out something at the end of the season to atleast try to attempt to be in that position to win that division with all that adversity. It's all about getting the RKG mentality with JG in the draft and we are seeing the results.

Man even the browns fans are more optimistic and cause of that I wouldn't be surprised if they become successful before us.

We can't be losers as fans and expect our team to be winners. Doesn't work like that
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Northland


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 3938
Location: Ajax, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't even read the article. But I used the premise of the article to check the drafts out from 2006-2011 just to see how we really did. And 2006-2009 were ugly. And I'm not going back to bash Jerry, or engage in 20/20 hindsight to say we could've drafted this guy or that guy. I simply wanted to see what reality was.

The good news is the drafts from 2010 on have improved and landed us some very good starters. I hope that continues this year. The question is how many consecutive quality or above average drafts do we need to offset the 2006-2009 period? I don't know if that can be answered.

What is also troubling is our attitude towards the line of scrimmage during the 06-11 period. Other than Tyron Smith, no lineman, offensive or defensive, drafted before the third round. That's fine if you are finding diamonds in the rough, but we haven't found any lineman of substance, other than Smith with this methodology That strategy has failed. Hopefully we are at a point where we start to invest in the line of scrimmage with higher picks. The draft is a crapshoot and there are never guarantees of success, but I think our odds of success re linemen will improve if we start to invest premium picks.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
I didn't even read the article. But I used the premise of the article to check the drafts out from 2006-2011 just to see how we really did. And 2006-2009 were ugly. And I'm not going back to bash Jerry, or engage in 20/20 hindsight to say we could've drafted this guy or that guy. I simply wanted to see what reality was.

The good news is the drafts from 2010 on have improved and landed us some very good starters. I hope that continues this year. The question is how many consecutive quality or above average drafts do we need to offset the 2006-2009 period? I don't know if that can be answered.

What is also troubling is our attitude towards the line of scrimmage during the 06-11 period. Other than Tyron Smith, no lineman, offensive or defensive, drafted before the third round. That's fine if you are finding diamonds in the rough, but we haven't found any lineman of substance, other than Smith with this methodology That strategy has failed. Hopefully we are at a point where we start to invest in the line of scrimmage with higher picks. The draft is a crapshoot and there are never guarantees of success, but I think our odds of success re linemen will improve if we start to invest premium picks.


The sad part is the gm thinks the o line has a lot of talent. He just doesn't buy into the formula of drafting o linemen with premium picks. Yet he changes coaches like shoes. For that reason I've accepted the Cowboys for what they are.

I don't buy into the rkg mantra and and changing the culture stuff. Ware , Witten , Rat and Tony are all part of the current culture. Wouldn't that make them part of the problem ? Or is bad coaching part of the bad culture in Dallas ? Or is it a bad gm ?
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