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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Both Sherrod and Quarless had nasty breaks with some nerve damage. There was hope they'd be OK sometime during the season, but those are iffy at best. Same thing with Benson and a lisfranc fracture. Perry went on IR pretty quickly, and the rest of these examples are muscle pulls that always have iffy timetables at best. None of these are similar.

Everything from the Packers organization and people who know has said it was a minor procedure. McGinn and a few others heard "ACL" and are spinning it to being as bad as a possible full reconstruction. Everyone worth listening to knows better. McGinn likes to write doom and gloom articles.


Please show me where it says Worthy will be 100% ready by day one of training camp. I haven't seen that reported anywhere.


The reports from the Packers around the time of the surgery was he was having a "minor knee surgery" and "expected to miss some of OTAs". The doom and gloom comes from people who read "ACL surgery" and decided to spin that into "8-10 months".

I could say show me as well, and already have. The places you are getting the "can't count on him for 2013" from are full of crap.


What reports? Where are these reports?
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Both Sherrod and Quarless had nasty breaks with some nerve damage. There was hope they'd be OK sometime during the season, but those are iffy at best. Same thing with Benson and a lisfranc fracture. Perry went on IR pretty quickly, and the rest of these examples are muscle pulls that always have iffy timetables at best. None of these are similar.

Everything from the Packers organization and people who know has said it was a minor procedure. McGinn and a few others heard "ACL" and are spinning it to being as bad as a possible full reconstruction. Everyone worth listening to knows better. McGinn likes to write doom and gloom articles.


Please show me where it says Worthy will be 100% ready by day one of training camp. I haven't seen that reported anywhere.


The reports from the Packers around the time of the surgery was he was having a "minor knee surgery" and "expected to miss some of OTAs". The doom and gloom comes from people who read "ACL surgery" and decided to spin that into "8-10 months".

I could say show me as well, and already have. The places you are getting the "can't count on him for 2013" from are full of crap.


What reports? Where are these reports?


The statements about his procedure right from the Packers when it happened. I asked you to show me first, so if you aren't going to give me something reliable that shows why his availability should be in doubt, I'm not going to dig up the official statements when the procedure happened.
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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Both Sherrod and Quarless had nasty breaks with some nerve damage. There was hope they'd be OK sometime during the season, but those are iffy at best. Same thing with Benson and a lisfranc fracture. Perry went on IR pretty quickly, and the rest of these examples are muscle pulls that always have iffy timetables at best. None of these are similar.

Everything from the Packers organization and people who know has said it was a minor procedure. McGinn and a few others heard "ACL" and are spinning it to being as bad as a possible full reconstruction. Everyone worth listening to knows better. McGinn likes to write doom and gloom articles.


Please show me where it says Worthy will be 100% ready by day one of training camp. I haven't seen that reported anywhere.


The reports from the Packers around the time of the surgery was he was having a "minor knee surgery" and "expected to miss some of OTAs". The doom and gloom comes from people who read "ACL surgery" and decided to spin that into "8-10 months".

I could say show me as well, and already have. The places you are getting the "can't count on him for 2013" from are full of crap.


What reports? Where are these reports?


The statements about his procedure right from the Packers when it happened. I asked you to show me first, so if you aren't going to give me something reliable that shows why his availability should be in doubt, I'm not going to dig up the official statements when the procedure happened.


There was nothing official released after Worthy's injury. I think the so-called 'reports' you speak of could be tweets? Everything I've read is pretty 'grey' involving Worthy.

Sounded like at first it was his 'ankle.' Then it turned in to a 'minor knee' injury. After the surgery it's a 'minor acl' injury? Then McGinn throws his article out there and nobody has said anything to think McGinn isn't telling the truth on this.

Entire thing has been fishy since the start. I mean, you're stating your opinion that Worthy will in fact be ready at 100% day on of training camp. Yet a week ago McGinn writes an article stating the opposite. Now, if that wasn't the case wouldn't you think Worthy would have 'shot it down' by now. There haven't been any 'reports' of Worthy being 100%.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-worthy-faces-battle-to-return-from-acl-surgery-r98h4ah-188450091.html
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the BS McGinn article pretty much everyone else is basing their speculation on that he had full ACL reconstruction. That's not the case. He had a minor procedure on his knee. He didn't "blow out" his ACL, and he didn't have major reconstructive surgery. Did he have knee surgery? Yes. Did it have something to do with his ACL? Probably. That isn't what McGinn is stretching it to. He LIKES to write doom and gloom stories, especially in the offseason.

It was from the season ending press conferences. I forget who's exactly. He was also on the Josh Sitton Show right before and asked about it, but there isn't an article for that.
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2Bigby0


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Thats the BS McGinn article pretty much everyone else is basing their speculation on that he had full ACL reconstruction. That's not the case. He had a minor procedure on his knee. He didn't "blow out" his ACL, and he didn't have major reconstructive surgery. Did he have knee surgery? Yes. Did it have something to do with his ACL? Probably. That isn't what McGinn is stretching it to. He LIKES to write doom and gloom stories, especially in the offseason.

It was from the season ending press conferences. I forget who's exactly. He was also on the Josh Sitton Show right before and asked about it, but there isn't an article for that.


You have no idea what McGinn is basing his article off. Did you ask him that? How do you even know that?

Season ending press conferences, that thing was a 'deep' knee bruise. Scroll down on this link and see how a diagnosis changed. In the initial stages it seemed as though injuries to House, Shields, Jennings and Perry were going to be 'minor' things, in turn they all ended up costing the players a longer period of time than initially reported. The same can be said about Woodson and Matthews.

http://www.totalpackers.com/2013/01/26/jerel-worthy-may-not-return-in-2013/

So just so we are clear, you cannot find anything stating that Worthy will be 100% ready by day 1 of training camp. It just doesn't exist, it's just your opinion.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Thats the BS McGinn article pretty much everyone else is basing their speculation on that he had full ACL reconstruction. That's not the case. He had a minor procedure on his knee. He didn't "blow out" his ACL, and he didn't have major reconstructive surgery. Did he have knee surgery? Yes. Did it have something to do with his ACL? Probably. That isn't what McGinn is stretching it to. He LIKES to write doom and gloom stories, especially in the offseason.

It was from the season ending press conferences. I forget who's exactly. He was also on the Josh Sitton Show right before and asked about it, but there isn't an article for that.


You have no idea what McGinn is basing his article off. Did you ask him that? How do you even know that?

Season ending press conferences, that thing was a 'deep' knee bruise. Scroll down on this link and see how a diagnosis changed. In the initial stages it seemed as though injuries to House, Shields, Jennings and Perry were going to be 'minor' things, in turn they all ended up costing the players a longer period of time than initially reported. The same can be said about Woodson and Matthews.

http://www.totalpackers.com/2013/01/26/jerel-worthy-may-not-return-in-2013/

So just so we are clear, you cannot find anything stating that Worthy will be 100% ready by day 1 of training camp. It just doesn't exist, it's just your opinion.


He didn't have a full ACL reconstruction. It's a jump to conclusions. There is no basis for it.

It was a "deep knee bruise" that they had to wait for the swelling to recede to come to a full diagnosis. Jennings is the only one of those I'll give you that was thought to be much more minor than it ended up being. The rest were people hearing what they wanted to hear and only listening to best case scenarios and then being miffed when that didn't play out.
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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Thats the BS McGinn article pretty much everyone else is basing their speculation on that he had full ACL reconstruction. That's not the case. He had a minor procedure on his knee. He didn't "blow out" his ACL, and he didn't have major reconstructive surgery. Did he have knee surgery? Yes. Did it have something to do with his ACL? Probably. That isn't what McGinn is stretching it to. He LIKES to write doom and gloom stories, especially in the offseason.

It was from the season ending press conferences. I forget who's exactly. He was also on the Josh Sitton Show right before and asked about it, but there isn't an article for that.


You have no idea what McGinn is basing his article off. Did you ask him that? How do you even know that?

Season ending press conferences, that thing was a 'deep' knee bruise. Scroll down on this link and see how a diagnosis changed. In the initial stages it seemed as though injuries to House, Shields, Jennings and Perry were going to be 'minor' things, in turn they all ended up costing the players a longer period of time than initially reported. The same can be said about Woodson and Matthews.

http://www.totalpackers.com/2013/01/26/jerel-worthy-may-not-return-in-2013/

So just so we are clear, you cannot find anything stating that Worthy will be 100% ready by day 1 of training camp. It just doesn't exist, it's just your opinion.


He didn't have a full ACL reconstruction. It's a jump to conclusions. There is no basis for it.

It was a "deep knee bruise" that they had to wait for the swelling to recede to come to a full diagnosis. Jennings is the only one of those I'll give you that was thought to be much more minor than it ended up being. The rest were people hearing what they wanted to hear and only listening to best case scenarios and then being miffed when that didn't play out.


Please provide any report stating that this was not a full ACL reconstruction. How do you know this? How do you know this and Bob McGinn doesn't? I have not seen or heard this reported.

All you are doing is providing your opinion. The facts are that there has been a ridiculous amount of uncertainty every time a player goes down. If a guy goes under the knife, there is absolutely no guarantee when he will be ready.

You are so wrong it's not even funny.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you have to base it WAS a full ACL reconstruction on? Even McGinn doesn't say that he just jumps from "ACL surgery" to prognosticating the worst case scenario. He is thin on details and spins it into a worst-case-scenario article. That is par for him.

There hasn't been a ridiculous amount of uncertainty, just people only looking for best case situations and being let down when it doesn't work that way.

Like he references Quarless' ACL surgery as an example. Quarless had a catastrophic knee injury. It was obvious the moment it happened. He had major reconstructive surgery for more than just the ACL. IIRC he tore his ACL and MCL. His 2012 season was in doubt from that moment, but there was hope he could be ready to go sometime during the season and fans clung on to that. Completely different scenario, yet that's what McGinn uses to make his point.

He didn't fully tear his ACL. There is no report that has any evidence of it at all beyond taking "ACL surgery" as meaning full reconstruction. The word from anyone actually connected to it was it was a relatively minor procedure.

You WANT to look at it as a worst case scenario for whatever reason, but I still say that is highly unrealistic and founded in nothing but people jumping to conclusions. There is not nearly that much uncertainty.
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PossibleCabbage


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was pretty sure Palmy came on here and said it was a low ACL tear, the kind that some guys play on ~2 weeks after they get cut by the doctor.

I trust him being tuned into NFL sources more than I trust McGinn.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I was pretty sure Palmy came on here and said it was a low ACL tear, the kind that some guys play on ~2 weeks after they get cut by the doctor.

I trust him being tuned into NFL sources more than I trust McGinn.


And I've been trumpeting that since the first "OMG WORTHY HAD ACL SURGERY! HE'S DONE FOR 2013!" tweets and comments. But [sarcasm] McGinn made it sound bad, so he MUST be right! [/sarcasm]

McGinn has a tendency to try and make things sound dire for the Packers. Last preseason he had an article that was pretty much how the Packers have no chance to win a Super Bowl at all and are probably in decline. I fully expect more of that this offseason pointing to losing Jennings and Driver and saying how the offense is doomed to suck, especially without a marquee RB, but he's a "journalist" so people believe whatever nonsense he spews. He heard ACL and jumped to conclusions. If you don't admit that it's at least a good possibility, then I'm not laughably wrong, you are laughably naive and deluded.
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2Bigby0


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I was pretty sure Palmy came on here and said it was a low ACL tear, the kind that some guys play on ~2 weeks after they get cut by the doctor.

I trust him being tuned into NFL sources more than I trust McGinn.


So I still fail to understand what makes your opinion more valid than McGinn's or mine for that matter.

You have told me over and over that it was reported that Jerel Worthy will be ready for day 1 of training camp. To me, regardless of what was done to him, he's likely still healing at this moment in time. Also, with the way our training staff initially reported injuries compared to the length of time the player was actually out, the initial report was far off.

His injury started as a knee bruise. On the play Worthy was injured, he was complete untouched. Seems like the Packers don't really want anyone to know what's going on with Worthy. Including you and McGinn for that matter. Or anyone else that tries to tell me they know when Worthy will be ready. I think either outcome is possible.

You don't even have a so-called 'BS' report from anyone regarding his health for training camp. Because one doesn't exist.
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
His injury started as a knee bruise. On the play Worthy was injured, he was complete untouched. Seems like the Packers don't really want anyone to know what's going on with Worthy.



Laughing

Ok. We get it. You aren't going to change your mind and going to believe McGinn's comments while several players even referred to it as minor surgery on twitter. McGinn is kind of a sensational reporter, blowing everything out of proportion. It is what he does. But this topic is completely derailed from what it was originally about. Good job.

I think even if Worthy is ready for the next season we are going to need a defensive linemen anyways. We need more 3 down linemen than just two I think, to compete in today's NFL. To stop the Niners, Washington, Seattle, Chicago, and a lesser extent the Vikings you have to stop the run and get after the QB. Pickett has been one of my favorite players for a while but I wouldn't be surprised if he walks after this contract.
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deathstar


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
His injury started as a knee bruise. On the play Worthy was injured, he was complete untouched. Seems like the Packers don't really want anyone to know what's going on with Worthy.



Laughing

Ok. We get it. You aren't going to change your mind and going to believe McGinn's comments while several players even referred to it as minor surgery on twitter. McGinn is kind of a sensational reporter, blowing everything out of proportion. It is what he does. But this topic is completely derailed from what it was originally about. Good job.

I think even if Worthy is ready for the next season we are going to need a defensive linemen anyways. We need more 3 down linemen than just two I think, to compete in today's NFL. To stop the Niners, Washington, Seattle, Chicago, and a lesser extent the Vikings you have to stop the run and get after the QB. Pickett has been one of my favorite players for a while but I wouldn't be surprised if he walks after this contract.


I think what Bigby is referring to, and is completely justified here, is that any statement to the opposite of McGinn's has not been cited in this thread. If players say that on twitter, can you provide the tweet?

I don't know what it was and don't really care either way. I just would like to see the same things you guys say you saw.
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2Bigby0


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathstar wrote:
ugLymayNe wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:
His injury started as a knee bruise. On the play Worthy was injured, he was complete untouched. Seems like the Packers don't really want anyone to know what's going on with Worthy.



Laughing

Ok. We get it. You aren't going to change your mind and going to believe McGinn's comments while several players even referred to it as minor surgery on twitter. McGinn is kind of a sensational reporter, blowing everything out of proportion. It is what he does. But this topic is completely derailed from what it was originally about. Good job.

I think even if Worthy is ready for the next season we are going to need a defensive linemen anyways. We need more 3 down linemen than just two I think, to compete in today's NFL. To stop the Niners, Washington, Seattle, Chicago, and a lesser extent the Vikings you have to stop the run and get after the QB. Pickett has been one of my favorite players for a while but I wouldn't be surprised if he walks after this contract.


I think what Bigby is referring to, and is completely justified here, is that any statement to the opposite of McGinn's has not been cited in this thread. If players say that on twitter, can you provide the tweet?

I don't know what it was and don't really care either way. I just would like to see the same things you guys say you saw.


Exactly my point. What tweets? From who and when were they? I mean, if you do a timeline on this, it's gotten progressively worse. Much like a lot of other players had happen to them this year.

As for the point on needing another big man, that was the other point of my statement that spilltray shot down. He said that we can count on Worthy to be 100% ready to go and to be a three down player. Fact is, we are weak on the offensive line. We have 1 three down player on our defensive line. That's not good enough.

And there is just no way AJ Hawk is a better linebacker than Desmond Bishop. No. Way.
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
Exactly my point. What tweets? From who and when were they? I mean, if you do a timeline on this, it's gotten progressively worse. Much like a lot of other players had happen to them this year.



After the McGinn story first broke(so after Andrews did the surgery on Worthy's knee) Sitton was on the radio in the GB area(1075) saying he was going to be training with Worthy in FL in the offseason and that he had his knee cleaned out. I forgot who tweeted it, I don't follow many Packers but I'm trying to figure it out. Pretty sure it popped up after the surgery and someone retweeted it because I follow like 10 players on the team only(I honestly don't care that much. You can believe what you want).

But we do need another DL simply because base D is going to be important moving forward. We are spoiled to be able to play nickel as we do now simply because Pickett-Raji are two big guys that can two gap & limit the run game to an extent. I mean, will Pickett sign for 2-3 million less after this contract?
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