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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gnat wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
But that brings me back to a one year extension for a guy with three years left on his deal technically.

Johnson is either getting cut or staying on his current deal. Not much else makes sense contract wise.


So maybe restructure isn't the right word, there have before been guys cut at the end of training camp and then brought back after week 1 for depth reasons and to reduce the cap hit with the understanding the whole time that was going to happen.

That very well could happen, but it's something I have a hard time seeing the Vikings doing as Charlie Johnson was average to above average this year. AP was his at his best running behind Johnson and Kalil.
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
The Gnat wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
But that brings me back to a one year extension for a guy with three years left on his deal technically.

Johnson is either getting cut or staying on his current deal. Not much else makes sense contract wise.


So maybe restructure isn't the right word, there have before been guys cut at the end of training camp and then brought back after week 1 for depth reasons and to reduce the cap hit with the understanding the whole time that was going to happen.

That very well could happen, but it's something I have a hard time seeing the Vikings doing as Charlie Johnson was average to above average this year. AP was his at his best running behind Johnson and Kalil.


Peterson splits running:

Right: 6.6
Left: 6.4
Middle: 4.2
Left Sideline: 6.4
Right Sideline: 10.9

Also total carries favor him running to the right as well. Johnson wasn't terrible, but he wasn't above average and probably was a little bit below.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a different split in my head for some reason.

Thanks for that.
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate it. Any offseason predictions that have us trading away Percy Harvin for anything less than a 1st rd selection along with either picks or a proven WR is complete garbage and thrown out for me. Just my opinion..
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jam8891 wrote:
I hate it. Any offseason predictions that have us trading away Percy Harvin for anything less than a 1st rd selection along with either picks or a proven WR is complete garbage and thrown out for me. Just my opinion..


Why a first round pick? What makes Harvin worth a first round pick?

Player for player trades rarely ever happen these days.
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vikesnewcoach11


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not bad but there is no need to take a safety that early. We have way bigger needs than that
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I hate it. Any offseason predictions that have us trading away Percy Harvin for anything less than a 1st rd selection along with either picks or a proven WR is complete garbage and thrown out for me. Just my opinion..


Why a first round pick? What makes Harvin worth a first round pick?

Player for player trades rarely ever happen these days.


You can't be serious?.... Who says Harvin is worth a 1st round pick? Anybody who knows anything about football and god given talent. Ever. No one needs to say it, what he does on the field speaks for itself. Its not his fault he got injured and if he wants more money, (like every other elite player in the NFL) just give it to him. You know what greatness you have with Harvin don't chance it, by trading him away for a draft pick. 2nd rd none the less. I know they are not going to trade him but speculation that they might is just nonsense.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know huh?

Thanks for the heads up Rick.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jam8891 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I hate it. Any offseason predictions that have us trading away Percy Harvin for anything less than a 1st rd selection along with either picks or a proven WR is complete garbage and thrown out for me. Just my opinion..


Why a first round pick? What makes Harvin worth a first round pick?

Player for player trades rarely ever happen these days.


You can't be serious?.... Who says Harvin is worth a 1st round pick? Anybody who knows anything about football and god given talent. Ever. No one needs to say it, what he does on the field speaks for itself. Its not his fault he got injured and if he wants more money, (like every other elite player in the NFL) just give it to him. You know what greatness you have with Harvin don't chance it, by trading him away for a draft pick. 2nd rd none the less. I know they are not going to trade him but speculation that they might is just nonsense.


Trade value is all dependent upon what a team can get on the open market, and if the Vikings dont feel comfortable with Harvin signing a long-term contract, why would they consider letting him for for nothing. This is the reality, if you dont sign Harvin now or trade him now, you risk him walking and not getting anything in 2014. I think this is what you're overlooking. Harvin has indicated he doesnt want to be a member of the Vikings (per his trade request last summer). Why would you want to "pay the man" as you put it, when he 1) seems to have issues with the Vikings and coaches and 2) still has an underwhelming skill set as a WR.

Has Harvin out performed his draft status as a first round WR? Some could argue that since he didnt bust, that he did. I disagree. I believe if you spend a first round pick on a WR, you should be getting a complete package at the position. Harvin has still not shown good route running skills in the intermediate and down field passing game, its year three, the steps should have been made already. Half of Harvin's production came from passes at or behind the LOS, If I recall, he only caught a couple of passes all year that were 20+ yards in the air down field. This is my worry, is Harvin really worth $9-10 million per year for 10-11 yds/catch and 5-7 TDs?

Even the Patriots has expressed the same concern with Wes Welker, a similar underneath/YAC type receiver. They have refused to pay Welker over the years. Harvin is simply not as valuable of a WR as he could be since he doesnt make plays down field.

In this case, with the pick gained from trading Harvin (a 2nd rd pick) the Vikings were able to acquire Quinton Patton. Patton is a WR that I feel has #1 potential, as the complete package.

The Vikings have Jarius Wright on the roster, who is much cheaper and is capable of catching those short passes that Harvin so often does. Sure Wright isnt as athletic and doesnt have Harvin's "god given talent", but he had a superior average per catch and seems to have a more sound understanding of route running, reading defenses, and finding soft spots in coverage.

What is Harvin worth to you? I am curious to know. Further, if you want to pay Harvin, that means you likely have to release Kevin Williams or avoid spending money on free agents. You cant pay Harvin, keep Williams and make major moves in free agency given that the Vikes salary situation is somewhat tight.

In exchange for the obligation to pay Harvin, you're essentially getting Greg Jennings, Quinton Patton (2nd rd pick), and Lavar Edwards (4th rd pick). Id take that deal. I do feel that if the Vikes intend to pay Harvin, they wont be making a run at Jennings, Bowe or Wallace.
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I hate it. Any offseason predictions that have us trading away Percy Harvin for anything less than a 1st rd selection along with either picks or a proven WR is complete garbage and thrown out for me. Just my opinion..


Why a first round pick? What makes Harvin worth a first round pick?

Player for player trades rarely ever happen these days.


You can't be serious?.... Who says Harvin is worth a 1st round pick? Anybody who knows anything about football and god given talent. Ever. No one needs to say it, what he does on the field speaks for itself. Its not his fault he got injured and if he wants more money, (like every other elite player in the NFL) just give it to him. You know what greatness you have with Harvin don't chance it, by trading him away for a draft pick. 2nd rd none the less. I know they are not going to trade him but speculation that they might is just nonsense.


Trade value is all dependent upon what a team can get on the open market, and if the Vikings dont feel comfortable with Harvin signing a long-term contract, why would they consider letting him for for nothing. This is the reality, if you dont sign Harvin now or trade him now, you risk him walking and not getting anything in 2014. I think this is what you're overlooking. Harvin has indicated he doesnt want to be a member of the Vikings (per his trade request last summer). Why would you want to "pay the man" as you put it, when he 1) seems to have issues with the Vikings and coaches and 2) still has an underwhelming skill set as a WR.

Has Harvin out performed his draft status as a first round WR? Some could argue that since he didnt bust, that he did. I disagree. I believe if you spend a first round pick on a WR, you should be getting a complete package at the position. Harvin has still not shown good route running skills in the intermediate and down field passing game, its year three, the steps should have been made already. Half of Harvin's production came from passes at or behind the LOS, If I recall, he only caught a couple of passes all year that were 20+ yards in the air down field. This is my worry, is Harvin really worth $9-10 million per year for 10-11 yds/catch and 5-7 TDs?

Even the Patriots has expressed the same concern with Wes Welker, a similar underneath/YAC type receiver. They have refused to pay Welker over the years. Harvin is simply not as valuable of a WR as he could be since he doesnt make plays down field.

In this case, with the pick gained from trading Harvin (a 2nd rd pick) the Vikings were able to acquire Quinton Patton. Patton is a WR that I feel has #1 potential, as the complete package.

The Vikings have Jarius Wright on the roster, who is much cheaper and is capable of catching those short passes that Harvin so often does. Sure Wright isnt as athletic and doesnt have Harvin's "god given talent", but he had a superior average per catch and seems to have a more sound understanding of route running, reading defenses, and finding soft spots in coverage.

What is Harvin worth to you? I am curious to know. Further, if you want to pay Harvin, that means you likely have to release Kevin Williams or avoid spending money on free agents. You cant pay Harvin, keep Williams and make major moves in free agency given that the Vikes salary situation is somewhat tight.

In exchange for the obligation to pay Harvin, you're essentially getting Greg Jennings, Quinton Patton (2nd rd pick), and Lavar Edwards (4th rd pick). Id take that deal. I do feel that if the Vikes intend to pay Harvin, they wont be making a run at Jennings, Bowe or Wallace.


Ok, First off, No one proved he ever wanted a trade. He wants more money. Of course. He deserves it. The type of receiver he is, is not a vertical threat type. I know that. I have seen downfield plays from Harvin that i was really impressed with; granted it was very few. My point is, though Harvin is not too skilled in stretching the field what he does do, he does so extremely well. He is meant to be explosive in the open field after short and medium range passes. He does it better than anyone. For that, I believe he is worth at least a 1st rd pick. Don't get me wrong, I like Jarius Wright and hopefully he is able to contribute to us in the future but to say he is a perfect replacement for what Harvin gives us is not true. My outlook for the off-season is for the Vikings to keep Harvin, and not go out and spend too much money on a high-profile WR such as Bowe or Jennings but to at least aggressively go after a good possession receiver that can stretch the field like Mohammad Massaquio or Danny Amendola. (not too sure on the spelling). Those Free Agent signings I would be thrilled to see take place. As for the draft, a young guy like Coradelle Patterson, Terrence Williams, or your guy Quinton Patton with the 1st or 2nd round selection. I much prefer a receiving corp that includes players, like Harvin, Wright, Jenkins, Massaquio/Amendola, the a rookie like Patterson, Williams, Patton.. I just believe this would be the best approach for the Minnesota Vikings as a franchise and the best approach for the development of QB christian Ponder who I am really high on. Surrounding him with weapons like these along with AD can do nothing but help his progression.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jam8891 wrote:
Ok, First off, No one proved he ever wanted a trade. He wants more money.

huh, whut? that one stopped me right away.

when Percy said publicly he wanted to be TRADED, he also said that money WAS NOT the issue.

you're saying just the opposite.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want three slot receivers on the team?

Harvin, Wright, Amendola all play the same position and haven't proved they can succeed on the outside.
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
Ok, First off, No one proved he ever wanted a trade. He wants more money.

huh, whut? that one stopped me right away.

when Percy said publicly he wanted to be TRADED, he also said that money WAS NOT the issue.

you're saying just the opposite.


He also said, he was fine and didnt have anything against the organization. When did he say it publicly? I dont keep ESPN on all day so if that happened I didn't hear anything about it. I believe all he is saying is he wants more money without actually saying it. I just believe it would be a very very bad decision to trade him away
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are also those, connected with the Vikings, that believed his outburst prior to this season had nothing to do with money.
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amendola is a better vertical receiver than what we have.........I also said either him or Massaquoi and even then those are just two of the second tier free agents that wouldnt cost too much and we wouldnt have to worry about cutting anybody. Why you all are so high on a Percy Harvin trade puzzles me beyond belief.
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