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Salary Cap Situation to end the season
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Raiiiiidersssss


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5313
Location: The Black Hole
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Didn't wanna reply because the comment change is too long. Anyway, here are some numbers I just looked up:

Quote:
Sep 6 2009
Traded to Oakland from New England for a 2011 1st round draft pick

Feb 24 2010
Franchised a 1 year $12.975 million franchise tag with Oakland (OAK)

Feb 16 2011
Signed a 2 year $30 million contract with Oakland (OAK)

Mar 8 2012
Signed a 5 year $37.5 million restructured contract with Oakland (OAK)



Wtf? We gave him a 3-4 year extension worth all of that money? Even though it was a partial restructure, we still were paying him an additional 22.5 million (37.5 - 15 (he had already played half of the 2 year contract).

How/why did it void btw? Anyone know?

Source:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/


The 22.5M were never meant to be paid, that's why the contract is voided. The years added were just a way to spread the signing bonus over the maximum years (5) in order to lower the 2012 cap hit. The thing i don't understand is if we're still on the books for 13M+ after his 8M+ 2012 cap hit, we actually paid him more than he was scheduled to make (15M) for 2012 after the extension/restructure. That makes no sense.


Yeah I don't really get it either. I guess because 21 < 30 million against the cap over 2 years? Or do I have that all wrong
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it costs 13 mil to void Seymour why the hell don't we just keep him for another year? might as well get another year out of him.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3811
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa what is this extension crap with Seymour? He's now costing 13M against the cap just to be cut??

When does this s--- storm of bad contracts end? It's like Reggie prolonged it Rolling Eyes
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 4220
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Whoa what is this extension crap with Seymour? He's now costing 13M against the cap just to be cut??

When does this s--- storm of bad contracts end? It's like Reggie prolonged it Rolling Eyes

Haha i know right, we were 35 mil over last year, which is even funnier. A 8-8 team 35 mil over the cap. Laughing

We should be good next year but we still have to sign Veldheer and Houston, some of our salary structures are a complete joke.

But like Oakdb36 said we aren't committed to anyone past 2014.

We are going young because we don't have a choice, i'm sure we will bring in plenty of UDFA's.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3817
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know where you guys get these numbers from but only the signing bonus goes against the future the base salary gets erased.
Spotrac doesn't even have Seymore on the top 10 list of raider cap hits.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/oakland-raiders/
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GJT1347


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1695
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who cares about his cap situation? if he doesnt help us win games, cut him. problem solved...
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10906
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is some serious misinformation out there on our contract situation. Something smells fishy.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14483
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
I don't know where you guys get these numbers from but only the signing bonus goes against the future the base salary gets erased.
Spotrac doesn't even have Seymore on the top 10 list of raider cap hits.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/oakland-raiders/


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/

(4.133 X 3) + 1.315 = 13.714

The explanation is Seymour's original contract was restructured right after the lockout in 2011 and it converted 14.09M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added 3 voidable years in the restructure). It was restructured again last year turning 6.575M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added a year to the contract).

14.09/5 = 2.818/year until 2015
6.575/5 = 1.315/year until 2016

2013, 2014, 2015 = 2.818+1.315 = 4.133
2016 = 1.315
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
I don't know where you guys get these numbers from but only the signing bonus goes against the future the base salary gets erased.
Spotrac doesn't even have Seymore on the top 10 list of raider cap hits.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/oakland-raiders/


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/

(4.133 X 3) + 1.315 = 13.714

The explanation is Seymour's original contract was restructured right after the lockout in 2011 and it converted 14.09M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added 3 voidable years in the restructure). It was restructured again last year turning 6.575M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added a year to the contract).

14.09/5 = 2.818/year until 2015
6.575/5 = 1.315/year until 2016

2013, 2014, 2015 = 2.818+1.315 = 4.133
2016 = 1.315


The link has him at zero.
The numbers are crossed out. His signing bonus and base salary where paid last year.
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101Raider


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2499
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to change the subject, but what kind of cap relief or hit would we incur if we hypothetically chose to let Carson Palmer walk?
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14483
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
I don't know where you guys get these numbers from but only the signing bonus goes against the future the base salary gets erased.
Spotrac doesn't even have Seymore on the top 10 list of raider cap hits.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/oakland-raiders/


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/

(4.133 X 3) + 1.315 = 13.714

The explanation is Seymour's original contract was restructured right after the lockout in 2011 and it converted 14.09M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added 3 voidable years in the restructure). It was restructured again last year turning 6.575M into a signing bonus prorated over 5 years (they added a year to the contract).

14.09/5 = 2.818/year until 2015
6.575/5 = 1.315/year until 2016

2013, 2014, 2015 = 2.818+1.315 = 4.133
2016 = 1.315


The link has him at zero.
The numbers are crossed out. His signing bonus and base salary where paid last year.


It's crossed because the contract has been voided. His 2012 signing bonus has been paid last year but it is prorated over the length of the contract for salary cap purposes and 4/5 of it hasn't been accounted for yet (and 3/5 of the 2011 signing bonus). The whole remaining prorated amount (13.714) will count against our cap this year, in 2014, he's off the books.

The main thing to understand is the amount in the signing bonus never disappears, it has to be accounted for at some point because it has already been paid. It can be accounted for throughout the contract if the player stays on the team until the end or what's left of the proration at the moment of the release/trade/void/retirement will count against the year's cap.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

101Raider wrote:
Sorry to change the subject, but what kind of cap relief or hit would we incur if we hypothetically chose to let Carson Palmer walk?


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/carson-palmer/

The contract details have been updated recently.

If he's cut, we're still carrying 2.335 x 4 = 9.34M in dead money. His 2013 cap hit is 15.335, so we're saving 15.335 - 9.34 = 5.995M against the 2013 cap.

He could also be designated as a post june 1st cut. We'd then be carrying 2.335 in dead money for 2013 and 2.335 x 3 = 7.005M in 2014.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good explanation of how it works:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Dead-money-disasters.html

As you can see, we were already carrying 28M in dead money last year which is the main reason we couldn't get rid of everyone in 2012. We had to keep some cap room to field a team. This year we're going to end up with a lot of dead money as well. Seymour, Boss and Curry combine for 16.722M of dead money. DVD, Barksdale, Chekwa and Stupar carry some as well which push the dead money to 17.5M right now. And we haven't started cutting anyone yet.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
101Raider wrote:
Sorry to change the subject, but what kind of cap relief or hit would we incur if we hypothetically chose to let Carson Palmer walk?


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/carson-palmer/

The contract details have been updated recently.

If he's cut, we're still carrying 2.335 x 4 = 9.34M in dead money. His 2013 cap hit is 15.335, so we're saving 15.335 - 9.34 = 5.995M against the 2013 cap.

He could also be designated as a post june 1st cut. We'd then be carrying 2.335 in dead money for 2013 and 2.335 x 3 = 7.005M in 2014.


It's situations like this one above that make me really wonder why Reggie didn't take the approach of completely tearing this team down and starting from scratch in 2013. He really prolonged the rebuilding process an extra year.

What I mean is this: most people here said we had no talent on defense and that DA deserves a free pass for it, and then Reggie validates this theory by keeping DA. Why didn't we just get every bad contract off the books, eat the dead money last year as much as possible, pay out veteran minimum contracts to fill roster spots, which in turn would basically forfeit the season (barring McFadden carrying the offense like AP this season, which wasn't going to happen healthy or otherwise), being clear in 2013 for a fresh start with at least as good of a draft position as we have now?

The more that comes out, the more I think Reggie may have half-assed the overhaul process. Which is something to worry about.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
101Raider wrote:
Sorry to change the subject, but what kind of cap relief or hit would we incur if we hypothetically chose to let Carson Palmer walk?


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/carson-palmer/

The contract details have been updated recently.

If he's cut, we're still carrying 2.335 x 4 = 9.34M in dead money. His 2013 cap hit is 15.335, so we're saving 15.335 - 9.34 = 5.995M against the 2013 cap.

He could also be designated as a post june 1st cut. We'd then be carrying 2.335 in dead money for 2013 and 2.335 x 3 = 7.005M in 2014.


It's situations like this one above that make me really wonder why Reggie didn't take the approach of completely tearing this team down and starting from scratch in 2013. He really prolonged the rebuilding process an extra year.

What I mean is this: most people here said we had no talent on defense and that DA deserves a free pass for it, and then Reggie validates this theory by keeping DA. Why didn't we just get every bad contract off the books, eat the dead money last year as much as possible, pay out veteran minimum contracts to fill roster spots, which in turn would basically forfeit the season (barring McFadden carrying the offense like AP this season, which wasn't going to happen healthy or otherwise), being clear in 2013 for a fresh start with at least as good of a draft position as we have now?

The more that comes out, the more I think Reggie may have half-assed the overhaul process. Which is something to worry about.


The link above explains why he couldn't. With already a quarter of the cap space in dead money, he couldn't get rid of everyone in one year.
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