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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 789
Location: Mesa, AZ
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Our OT's.. Reply with quote

I get tired of reading about how our "offensive tackles" were, well, offensive.

People talk about how we NEED to take a tackle high in the draft and I just don't agree with that logic. Now if someone falls to us and we have that option, we can consider it, but I don't think we have a clear cut MUST grab a tackle in the first 2 rounds.

"In the first eight games this year, Batiste allowed 12 sacks and 52 total QB pressures, while Massie surrendered 13 sacks and 49 total QB disruptions of his own." - ProFootballFocus

"Batiste was benched in Week 9 in favor of Nate Potter, who, despite struggling himself (seven sacks and 24 total QB disruptions allowed since replacing Batiste), has still been an upgrade." - ProFootballFocus

And keep in mind that the Week 17 game against San Francisco, Potter didn't play due to injury but Aldon Smith isn't even mentioned in the re-focus of the game. Massie on the right had not allowed a sack since the first quote, so he gave up 13 sacks for the season.

Finding a gem in Potter in the seventh round and Massie in the 4th to solidify the tackle position has been great. Bringing in competition for the spot makes sense but I don't think they performed badly. If anything, the obvious spot has been Adam Snyder.

"Even Adam Snyder has picked up his game a bit, as hes had a clean sheet (no QB disruptions allowed) in the pass blocking department in four of his past seven games." - ProFootballFocus

I don't expect that to continue though with Snyder but who knows. I still think our biggest need on the OL is at Guard and Center before Tackle.

Everyone out there in NFL analyst land is looking at our 58 or some odd sacks for the season and thinking, "AH MAN, How can Arizona NOT take a tackle high?".. I don't agree. It's not a MUST have..
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offensive tackle, I agree. Offensive line, I do not agree.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Offensive tackle, I agree. Offensive line, I do not agree.


Offensive line cannot be ignored this offseason.. and I'm not saying it should be.

But for all the analysts out there to say we must take a tackle high, absurd..
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're simply talking about the offensive tackle position, I agree 100%/. People need to start opening their eyes to the reality that the offenssive tackle position is NOT the end all be all of offensive line play.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this. However, I still want two upgrades to the OL this season. That's a lot to ask for but I want this OL to be VERY GOOD not just ok or average or solid but VERY GOOD.

Snyder needs to be upgraded plain an simple. That's one upgrade I want.

If Levi leaves then I think we need to bring in somebody to compete with Potter. I'm not completely sold on him. I like him but I don't trust him yet. But I'm open to upgrading any OL position outside of RT.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on who's available. I like Potter but if franchise-tackles like Joeckel or Fisher are there we have to take them IMO. If they're gone I'm fine with a Potter-Warmack combo on the left side. Colledge can take over RG and it makes Potter a solid/cheap backup.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said it for I don't know how long.

Build the line from inside out. All three of our interior OL positions can be upgraded. I think we roll with Sendlein for now, but that is a spot we have to upgrade in the future. Both Guard spots are a massive reason for our poor run blocking ability. The fact we ranked last in the NFL with 27% of our running plays being stopped for a loss is terrible.

That said there were some playcalls and running plays that were just plain stupid last year and were never going to work, but when you break down our YPC rankings by run direction;

ARI

Left End - 3.35 = 25
Left Tackle - 2.59 = 32
Middle/Guard - 2.68 = 32
Right Tackle - 3.28 = 31
Right End - 3.88 = 18

You really get a feel for our complete inability to run the ball between the tackles.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Left tackle numbers for 2011: 4.25=5th

People are weary of him as they should be but if we want progress in this category from this poisition, Levi Brown is already here. Just sayin.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Left tackle numbers for 2011: 4.25=5th

People are weary of him as they should be but if we want progress in this category from this poisition, Levi Brown is already here. Just sayin.


I hope you address the question mark that is Levi in your next interesting conversation!
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Left tackle numbers for 2011: 4.25=5th

People are weary of him as they should be but if we want progress in this category from this poisition, Levi Brown is already here. Just sayin.


And Levi is/was far better than 19 sacks and 76 total QB pressures over 16 games at LT.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Levi's numbers in pass protection from 2011, while certainly not good, cut those 2012 numbers in half.
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iRobot


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/levi-brown-224831/

Season Sacks
2007 8.00
2008 11.00
2009 7.00
2010 7.00
2011 11.50
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iRobot wrote:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/levi-brown-224831/

Season Sacks
2007 8.00
2008 11.00
2009 7.00
2010 7.00
2011 11.50


Terrible numbers no doubt about it but again, those numbers cut our 2012 numbers in half. I repeat, IN HALF.

It's crazy to think but Levi Brown would dramatically upgrade this offensive line from what it was last season in both phases of the game.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iRobot wrote:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/levi-brown-224831/

Season Sacks
2007 8.00
2008 11.00
2009 7.00
2010 7.00
2011 11.50


The big thing with sack numbers to remember is that they represent such a small proportion of the passing snaps we actually take.

I will take 11 sacks a year from my LT is he is allowing 20-25 total pressures over the season. The big thing is making sure that a guy does not have pressure in his face every snap, making sure that a guy can step up into the pocket.

I know that is not always the case for Levi, but I do think overall we have been hard on him based on his draft position and the fact that it was two spots before Adrian Peterson.

I don't think Levi is any worse than a guy like Jermon Bushrod. Bushrod just gets to play with an all-pro interior OL and a guy like Drew Brees at QB.
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iRobot


Joined: 17 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numbers according to ProFootballWeekly


D'Anthony Batiste, LT: 11 sacks allowed. (7 penalties for 57 yards)
Nate Potter, LT: 7 sacks allowed. (1 penalty for 10 yards)
Daryn Colledge, LG: 5 sacks allowed. (7 penalties for 44 yards)
Lyle Sendlein, C: 3 sacks allowed. (0 penalties)
Scott Wedgie, C: 0 sacks allowed. (0 penalties)
Rich Ohrnberger, C/G: 1.75 sacks allowed (3 penalties for 27 yards)
Senio Kelemete, RG: 1 sack allowed (1 penalty for 10 yards)
Adam Snyder, RG: 1.5 sacks allowed (2 penalties for 25 yards)
Bobby Massie, RT: 13.5 sacks allowed. (4 penalties for 20 yards)

Pat McQuistan, T: 1 sack allowed.

Total: 43.75 (from offensive line unless I'm missing someone that played this year)

We had 58 total.. so I guess the other 14.25 are on the RB/TE position.. ?
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