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Who would you pick? [Trade Down Update pg 5]
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Mudderfudder77 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Quote:
Cooper is an elite prospect and would be the #1 rated OG in any other draft if it were not for Warmack. But he is still in most people's top 20.


Quote:
Possibly, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a prospect ranked in the high teens - low twenties. This isn't Warmack sliding to 20.


It is hard for an OG to be ranked in the top 20. The fact that Warmack is top 10 and Cooper is top 20 tells me just how good they are.

Cooper is ranked higher as a prospect than Ogeltree on most peoples rankings.

Cooper is a highly rated player and a value pick, not at a mediocre position, but at a crippling position of LG where we have NO one to play.


If thats the motivation - we only have 1 starting caliber LB under contract. Unless we're going to play dime every down - we're in trouble.

FA hasn't even started yet. Look at the available FA's at ILB. Its terrible. Now compare that to the available FA's at OT, OG.

Ultimately its just my opinion, but I believe if faced with the option you presented - Emery is going to go for the LB over the OG not named Warmack.

Presumably we won't go into the draft without resigning Roach, Hayes or both, or signing another starting caliber player from elsewhere. Lets not lose focus on the ultimate fact though - both positions are at the top of our list of needs at the present time. Personally I would take Cooper over Ogletree but I wouldn't be upset with Ogletree either.


I was chatting with one of the guys who runs Draftcountdown today and he said that Cooper might not have the anchor that we are looking for. That he might be cast best in a zone blocking or a finesse pulling team.

I wonder if playing him at C would help.

I also hope he shows up to the combine at over 300lbs.

I look at him as a center anyway personally.
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the discussion of what guards would be available at 20, remember last year when many were certain that DeCastro would be gone by our pick at 19? And the year before when people were certain Pouncey would be top 10 as well? Wisniewski definitely going in the first round (That one was only a few of us)?

DeCastro went at 23, Pouncey at 17, and Wiz in the 2nd round. My point is, while these guards are amazing at what they do and are phenomenal prospects, they just aren't rated real high positional value-wise. I'm not completely sold that Warmack won't be at our pick come April. Maybe he won't be at 20, but I do not expect him to go as high as some project.


To the OP, in this scenario I would select the best available OL here. Every year we're complaining that we never draft OL high, if we have an opportunity to improve the OL we have to. I think our offense would benefit more with the addition of competent OL play than out defense would with a young replacement for Urlacher at this point.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
Regarding the discussion of what guards would be available at 20, remember last year when many were certain that DeCastro would be gone by our pick at 19? And the year before when people were certain Pouncey would be top 10 as well? Wisniewski definitely going in the first round (That one was only a few of us)?

DeCastro went at 23, Pouncey at 17, and Wiz in the 2nd round. My point is, while these guards are amazing at what they do and are phenomenal prospects, they just aren't rated real high positional value-wise. I'm not completely sold that Warmack won't be at our pick come April. Maybe he won't be at 20, but I do not expect him to go as high as some project.


To the OP, in this scenario I would select the best available OL here. Every year we're complaining that we never draft OL high, if we have an opportunity to improve the OL we have to. I think our offense would benefit more with the addition of competent OL play than out defense would with a young replacement for Urlacher at this point.
Cooper is similar to DeCastro. Quick and strong. I think he's a better prospect then Pouncey and much better the Wiz. The only thing is if he has the size. He reoprtedly ballooned up so his combine will be important.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
CBears019 wrote:
Regarding the discussion of what guards would be available at 20, remember last year when many were certain that DeCastro would be gone by our pick at 19? And the year before when people were certain Pouncey would be top 10 as well? Wisniewski definitely going in the first round (That one was only a few of us)?

DeCastro went at 23, Pouncey at 17, and Wiz in the 2nd round. My point is, while these guards are amazing at what they do and are phenomenal prospects, they just aren't rated real high positional value-wise. I'm not completely sold that Warmack won't be at our pick come April. Maybe he won't be at 20, but I do not expect him to go as high as some project.


To the OP, in this scenario I would select the best available OL here. Every year we're complaining that we never draft OL high, if we have an opportunity to improve the OL we have to. I think our offense would benefit more with the addition of competent OL play than out defense would with a young replacement for Urlacher at this point.
Cooper is similar to DeCastro. Quick and strong. I think he's a better prospect then Pouncey and much better the Wiz. The only thing is if he has the size. He reoprtedly ballooned up so his combine will be important.


I want to see him at 315lbs or bigger.

A 290lbs OG does not do it for me in our system ad I doubt his trainers want him at the combine weighing 295lbs because that makes him a zone blocking OG.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.
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OhCripes


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like you have to take Ogletree. You take BPA in the first round and he is a top talent worthy of the 20th pick. If we address the LT position you gotta take him. We could address LG/C in round 2.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.

Are you not even considering the option of a non-OL first rounder, or is this an "Of these guys..."? I'd take Cooper in your hypothetical because I see him at center. I agree he's not a OG at 290 or 295, at least not for us. I don't like Fluker that high though and I don't see Warford as a 1st rounder. If not Cooper I'd consider Lane Johnson but ultimately I probably address another need position or look to trade down with someone targeting a specific player.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.

Are you not even considering the option of a non-OL first rounder, or is this an "Of these guys..."? I'd take Cooper in your hypothetical because I see him at center. I agree he's not a OG at 290 or 295, at least not for us. I don't like Fluker that high though and I don't see Warford as a 1st rounder. If not Cooper I'd consider Lane Johnson but ultimately I probably address another need position or look to trade down with someone targeting a specific player.


No I am talking a hypothetical about the OL, I would be open to taking another player.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.


If I could get a really good deal I would move down and take Warford in the late 1st - early 2nd since I think he is a plug and play guard who fits what we are looking for at that spot…if we couldn’t get a great deal then I would take Cooper…play him at LG as a rookie then assess if he can be the long term future at Centre from next year onwards then we can readdress the OG situation last year with Kromer having a better idea of what we already have on the roster or with a later round pick up this year…wouldn’t trouble me at all if we went Oline in round 1 & 2 if those are the BPA at that time.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.


If I could get a really good deal I would move down and take Warford in the late 1st - early 2nd since I think he is a plug and play guard who fits what we are looking for at that spot…if we couldn’t get a great deal then I would take Cooper…play him at LG as a rookie then assess if he can be the long term future at Centre from next year onwards then we can readdress the OG situation last year with Kromer having a better idea of what we already have on the roster or with a later round pick up this year…wouldn’t trouble me at all if we went Oline in round 1 & 2 if those are the BPA at that time.


In your mind how much if a difference is there between Warford and Cooper?

Because everyone I talk to says Warmack and Cooper are close and that Warford is not far behind. Is this one of the best OG classes we have seen in awhile?

I guess last year DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula were all drafted top 40.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.
Can we trade down and take Fluker or Cooper?
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.


If I could get a really good deal I would move down and take Warford in the late 1st - early 2nd since I think he is a plug and play guard who fits what we are looking for at that spot…if we couldn’t get a great deal then I would take Cooper…play him at LG as a rookie then assess if he can be the long term future at Centre from next year onwards then we can readdress the OG situation last year with Kromer having a better idea of what we already have on the roster or with a later round pick up this year…wouldn’t trouble me at all if we went Oline in round 1 & 2 if those are the BPA at that time.


In your mind how much if a difference is there between Warford and Cooper?

Because everyone I talk to says Warmack and Cooper are close and that Warford is not far behind. Is this one of the best OG classes we have seen in awhile?

I guess last year DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula were all drafted top 40.


I depends on what we want…I think Warford is an OG only…I don’t think he can play another other spot and in truth I think by far his best spot would be as the RG which may mean moving Lance Louis to LG which IMO would be his best spot but we know Tice certainly didn’t want to do that…Cooper on the other hand can play LG with ease and has potential as a centre with is a position of more value…I think Warford fits the mold of the massive physical Olinemen that Kromer has had in the past but Cooper has more upside and athletic ability in pass pro which will be the #1 concern for the Oline…

I think the three of Warmack, Cooper & Warford are way better than DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula from last year…if we come away with any of those three guards at some point in the draft we will have done well.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.


If I could get a really good deal I would move down and take Warford in the late 1st - early 2nd since I think he is a plug and play guard who fits what we are looking for at that spot…if we couldn’t get a great deal then I would take Cooper…play him at LG as a rookie then assess if he can be the long term future at Centre from next year onwards then we can readdress the OG situation last year with Kromer having a better idea of what we already have on the roster or with a later round pick up this year…wouldn’t trouble me at all if we went Oline in round 1 & 2 if those are the BPA at that time.


In your mind how much if a difference is there between Warford and Cooper?

Because everyone I talk to says Warmack and Cooper are close and that Warford is not far behind. Is this one of the best OG classes we have seen in awhile?

I guess last year DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula were all drafted top 40.


I depends on what we want…I think Warford is an OG only…I don’t think he can play another other spot and in truth I think by far his best spot would be as the RG which may mean moving Lance Louis to LG which IMO would be his best spot but we know Tice certainly didn’t want to do that…Cooper on the other hand can play LG with ease and has potential as a centre with is a position of more value…I think Warford fits the mold of the massive physical Olinemen that Kromer has had in the past but Cooper has more upside and athletic ability in pass pro which will be the #1 concern for the Oline…

I think the three of Warmack, Cooper & Warford are way better than DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula from last year…if we come away with any of those three guards at some point in the draft we will have done well.


I think a lot of it will come down to what Cooper weighs in at. If he can show that he can carry 315lbs or more. If he can I think he has a lot of OG potential even in our system.

The part that I struggle with is Cooper better enough than Warford to not look to trade down.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I think a lot of it will come down to what Cooper weighs in at. If he can show that he can carry 315lbs or more. If he can I think he has a lot of OG potential even in our system.

The part that I struggle with is Cooper better enough than Warford to not look to trade down.

That's the beauty of the draft. None of it is really quantifiable. Both guys could end up being far lesser players than a 4th round head scratching pick.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
If you are the Bears and you are picking at 20 which option do you take?

-Draft Cooper at 20.

-Draft Fluker at 20.

-Trade down late 1st and take Warford.


If I could get a really good deal I would move down and take Warford in the late 1st - early 2nd since I think he is a plug and play guard who fits what we are looking for at that spot…if we couldn’t get a great deal then I would take Cooper…play him at LG as a rookie then assess if he can be the long term future at Centre from next year onwards then we can readdress the OG situation last year with Kromer having a better idea of what we already have on the roster or with a later round pick up this year…wouldn’t trouble me at all if we went Oline in round 1 & 2 if those are the BPA at that time.


In your mind how much if a difference is there between Warford and Cooper?

Because everyone I talk to says Warmack and Cooper are close and that Warford is not far behind. Is this one of the best OG classes we have seen in awhile?

I guess last year DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula were all drafted top 40.


I depends on what we want…I think Warford is an OG only…I don’t think he can play another other spot and in truth I think by far his best spot would be as the RG which may mean moving Lance Louis to LG which IMO would be his best spot but we know Tice certainly didn’t want to do that…Cooper on the other hand can play LG with ease and has potential as a centre with is a position of more value…I think Warford fits the mold of the massive physical Olinemen that Kromer has had in the past but Cooper has more upside and athletic ability in pass pro which will be the #1 concern for the Oline…

I think the three of Warmack, Cooper & Warford are way better than DeCastro, Zeitler and Amitoula from last year…if we come away with any of those three guards at some point in the draft we will have done well.


I think a lot of it will come down to what Cooper weighs in at. If he can show that he can carry 315lbs or more. If he can I think he has a lot of OG potential even in our system.

The part that I struggle with is Cooper better enough than Warford to not look to trade down.
I think Cooper is much better then Warford.
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