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Bjoern Werner (think out of the box)
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who would you take
Werner
13%
 13%  [ 2 ]
Geno Smith
53%
 53%  [ 8 ]
someone else
33%
 33%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 15

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henry


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Bjoern Werner (think out of the box) Reply with quote

Pass rushers like this German qb killer are rare. I've heard all the arguments that he's best fit for a 4/3 DRE. One thing he is not, is a 3/4 OLB, that being said I see him as a JJ Watt type 3/4 qb nightmare. He played at 275 lbs in 2011 and he obviously has the frame to play at around 280-285. Re-scheme w/ new DC to play more like the Houston 3/4 and he will make Hali/Houston even more effective. We could be in the top 5 in sacks deploying this scheme with so many great pass rushers. Also i'd trade our 4th if we could for Karl Klug to serve as primary backup to Werner,Hali & houston. Draft best qb available w/2nd (be it Wilson, Nassib or Glenn)
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, isn't it time we start thinking inside the box again? 30 years since drafting a QB in the first round. There is a QB worth taking easily in the top 10 which means IMO due to position, easily #1 overall.

This organization has spent THIRTY YEARS trying it that way, your way, outside the box way. For thirty years they've tried to scrap heap for a QB while being awesome at all the other positions!

Result? 1 AFCC appearance with the last legs of what likely is the greatest QB of all time (Montana, '93 season, loss to Bills)

Draft the damn QB!!!!!! Seriously.
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kcstomp63


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 779
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
Honestly, isn't it time we start thinking inside the box again? 30 years since drafting a QB in the first round. There is a QB worth taking easily in the top 10 which means IMO due to position, easily #1 overall.

This organization has spent THIRTY YEARS trying it that way, your way, outside the box way. For thirty years they've tried to scrap heap for a QB while being awesome at all the other positions!

Result? 1 AFCC appearance with the last legs of what likely is the greatest QB of all time (Montana, '93 season, loss to Bills)

Draft the damn QB!!!!!! Seriously.


I agree with this.

Personally, I wouldn't even be that mad if Geno is drafted and turns out to only be mediocre. I THINK he has to the tools to be one of those top 10 QBs in the league. If we drafted him and he didn't become that. I would still say...well at least they tried. I just want a QB to call our own.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we knew Werner would be a JJ Watt type player, yeah draft him. However the chances of that type of player never really been seen before and then showing up twice in the span of 3 drafts is incredibly unlikely.

Note to Self: Why do people keep thinking that their is even a CHANCE that Tyler Wilson is there at the top of the 2nd. He is top 5, I guarantee it. Most people that have taken a gander at these QB's realize that by now, others just assume he might be there in the 2nd.

A86, I used to be on the Geno train with you, but Tyler is the right guy for THIS team, I can't really explain it, but I think it has something to do with his leadership, moxie, and having the look of a winner. Neither really has any big time weak areas and both appear to be intelligent, hard working, and talented, so i'll take TW because of the intangibles....he's just got more of the "it" factor IMO.

The only thing that gives me pause is Ryk still likes Geno and he's a Hog fan....somehow he's coming to that conclusion by some backwards psychologic homerism assessment.
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henry


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

let's see:
Kaepernick, Russell Smith, Andy Dalton to mention a few.
QB's are more plentiful in today's spread offense game. None in this year's class are near worthy of #1. Yes it's rotten luck, but you do the right thing and get the best talent & it's about time we got some push from our front 3. If you think Wilson won't last then trade #2 & #3 to move up into middle of rd 1 for wilson. I think Geno Wilson will bust.
I too like Wilson. Getting a great player #1 and a QB 2nd should be the Chiefs goal
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henry


Joined: 03 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also the # of teams needing qbs is less and less after the last 2 drafts or so. a good qb can be had late rd 1 or early rd 2.
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henry


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

correction in prev post
i meant to say Geno Smith not (Wilson) will be bust!
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

henry wrote:
let's see:
Kaepernick, Russell Smith, Andy Dalton to mention a few.
QB's are more plentiful in today's spread offense game. None in this year's class are near worthy of #1. Yes it's rotten luck, but you do the right thing and get the best talent & it's about time we got some push from our front 3. If you think Wilson won't last then trade #2 & #3 to move up into middle of rd 1 for wilson. I think Geno Wilson will bust.
I too like Wilson. Getting a great player #1 and a QB 2nd should be the Chiefs goal


You see if we don't take Wilson #1 we won't be getting him if we trade down, he'll be long gone. You mention Dalton...if there was a redraft wouldn't he go top 10? Dalton isn't even all that good and wasn't the prospect Wilson is....yet he has proven capable in this league. If we think there is a QB that is likely to match that with an ever higher ceiling and low bust potential, we have to take him.

I believe either Geno or Tyler fit that description.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

henry wrote:
let's see:
Kaepernick, Russell Smith, Andy Dalton to mention a few.
QB's are more plentiful in today's spread offense game. None in this year's class are near worthy of #1. Yes it's rotten luck, but you do the right thing and get the best talent & it's about time we got some push from our front 3. If you think Wilson won't last then trade #2 & #3 to move up into middle of rd 1 for wilson. I think Geno Wilson will bust.
I too like Wilson. Getting a great player #1 and a QB 2nd should be the Chiefs goal

So, would you in hindsight take any of those QB's with a #1 overall pick, assuming others like RG3 and Luck weren't there? If it was this draft, and you knew Kaepernick would be what he has shown so far, would you take him to secure you've got him, or wait until the 2nd to hope he slides there?

In some ways I agree with what you're saying, it seems to maybe be easier to find a good QB later, or that the spread is somehow preparing them even more to be successful in the NFL then pro-style systems, but if that's the case, are we the only ones seeing that? Do not all of these other teams not see this, and as such start taking more questionable guys earlier, that two years ago would have slid to the 2-3 rounds? Are you willing to take that chance?

Ultimately, if you think any of these guys has the chops to be a franchise guy in your offense, you take him at #1. You'll roughly invest what we did for 2 seasons of Tyson Jackson, against largely the same overall salary cap (percentage of total investment). We survived that, along with tons of wasted money on Cassel, we'll survive potentially blowing $24MM on a QB, so long as we don't view it as anything that must get 3-4 years to see if it works. We must be willing to go back to that well again, even as soon as next year, if the opportunity presents itself.

I'd rather spend a 1st this year taking a chance, and even a 2nd next year on a guy with upside, then a 1st and a 4th this year. Better chance of both being good in the former scenario, and you give your first guy a legit shot to be the guy, without looking over his shoulder.
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henry


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most of you are acting too desperately.
Buffalo,Oakland & Arizona (maybe) will take qbs in rd 1.
A few other teams Eagles, Jets possibly
Alex Smith, Vick will fill 2 of those teams need
so worse case scenario we get 4th best qb and there's great debate that they are all pretty close to each other. the combine will sort that out.

G Smith,T Wilson, R Nassib, M Glennon EJ Manuel, Barkley (NO) & L Jones
i don't see a problem at all waiting or moving back into 1st if you really like someone who's still there
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

henry wrote:
correction in prev post
i meant to say Geno Smith not (Wilson) will be bust!

Ok, so let me ask this a different way, can you compare Smith to another high profile QB that busted?

See, I'm having a hard tame naming someone that compares to Geno, that was a bust. I find several successful comparisons, but busts, and more importantly, the reasons why they busted, don't really compare.

He's no idiot like the pinnacle of busts in Leaf and Russel. He's got a lot more arm talent then guys like Alex Smith. He was not carried by those around him in college like Sanchez.

The closest comparison to someone who has busted (or will soon) is maybe Blaine Gabbert. Similar experience in college (system mostly, but a better team), and the main reason Gabbert is not being successful is his tendancy to panic in the pocket, and I've at least seen Geno panic a few times.

Anyway, I just don't see similarities between Geno and guys that bust. He doesn't have the qualities that cause someone to bust, and actually has all of the qualities that makes guys very successful.
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henry


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith played against very mediocre opponents for the most part.
his pocket presence is not even close to Wilson's
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kcstomp63


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
henry wrote:
correction in prev post
i meant to say Geno Smith not (Wilson) will be bust!

Ok, so let me ask this a different way, can you compare Smith to another high profile QB that busted?

See, I'm having a hard tame naming someone that compares to Geno, that was a bust. I find several successful comparisons, but busts, and more importantly, the reasons why they busted, don't really compare.

He's no idiot like the pinnacle of busts in Leaf and Russel. He's got a lot more arm talent then guys like Alex Smith. He was not carried by those around him in college like Sanchez.

The closest comparison to someone who has busted (or will soon) is maybe Blaine Gabbert. Similar experience in college (system mostly, but a better team), and the main reason Gabbert is not being successful is his tendancy to panic in the pocket, and I've at least seen Geno panic a few times.

Anyway, I just don't see similarities between Geno and guys that bust. He doesn't have the qualities that cause someone to bust, and actually has all of the qualities that makes guys very successful.


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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th QB at worst right? And they'll be just fine?

Here's a list of the 4th QB taken the past 10 years:

'12 Weeden
'11 Christian Ponder (picked 12th overall btw, in what was also a "weak" class)
'10 Colt McCoy
'09 Pat White
'08 Chad Henne
'07 John Beck
'06 Kellen Clemons
'05 Charlie Frye
'04 JP Losman
'03 Rex Grossman

Seriously.. let's roll with the 4th best QB taken eh? I want the FIRST QB taken. I assure you if I spent the time to compile a list in comparison with the first guys taken, you'd choose them nearly every single year except 2007!

As for the list above, the only one I like enough is Weeden (I think he gets an unfair bias). None I like more than my preferred pick Geno!

Let's get the best QB in the draft. People can decide and debate all they want on who that guy is, I'm happy to hear it. But debating other positions IMO is repeating 30 years of failed philosophy.

Draft the QB!
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henry


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

colleges are now producing high calibre qbs at never before levels
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