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Captain Zapp
Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 261
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Football Mensa wrote: | | Captain Zapp wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: | | Captain Zapp wrote: | | Football Mensa wrote: |
It's similar in the fact that Rat was about the same age as Spencer when he signed the extension. quote]
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Im sorry but this has to be some of the worst logic I have ever seen. By this train of though, why doesnt the team just draft a quarterback that is the same age as Andrew Luck was when he was drafted last year? |
HUH ?
Spencer is on the backside of his career and we would again be stuck with a big contract that would cause more cap problems. How does that compare to drafting a qb in his early 20's ? When we FINALLY do draft a qb I hope like heck he is only about 21-22 years old. I just don't see the comparison at all. |
Im not sure how you didnt follow the first time but let me help you out. I said the Ratliff situation doesnt compare to the Spencer situation at all. You said it did because, im paraphrasing here, they were around the same age. I then said then made an equally absurd statement. You were befuddled. Now you undersand where I was coming from from the start. |
Spencer and Rat do compare....Rat signs contract extension , body breaks down as he get's older. Huge hit on the cap to release. Spencer is an older player. This will most likely be his last contract. He will want huge money. Why put yourself in a position to be stuck with him or have to take a huge cap hit ?
Surely that was simple enough for you to follow , no ? |
Do you already know the parameters of the deal? Do you know the Cowboys cant work out a deal to where its still financially feasible to cut him in three or four years? I know you claim to have inside sources that your too shy to even speak of with the rest of us, do those sources also include a hidden medical report that shows Spencers body is breaking down? Because he just turned 29 a few days ago and you keep talking about him likes hes two years away from retirement.
Once again, the two situations are nothing alike because there are 100's of different variables. |
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WizardHawk
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6948
Location: Hawkeye State
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| textaz03 wrote: | I went back and looked at the size of the 2 starting DE's for Tampa from 2002 - 2007
DE Greg Spires 6-1 265lbs
DE Simeon Rice 6-5 268lbs
DE Gaines Adams 6-5 258lbs
compared to Ware and Spencer
DE Spencer 6-3 250lbs
DE Ware 6-4 254lbs
So looking at the players that Kiffen likes for his DE, Spencer can play the part. Him and Ware will each have to pack on a few pounds of muscle (at most 15), they both have the frame for it.
Now, if your worried about Spencer being on the down side of his career, then I guess Ware is as well?? You know, since Ware is a year older. Spencer doesn't have the wear and tear of a 6 year player since he sat behind Ellis for 2 years. So to say that he is in decline is just dumb. I would say, that he is coming into his prime (or 1 year into it).
If your worried about that 2010 season when it came out that he quit on plays or took plays off, well, the whole team quit that year! He had the guts to say he did it.
If your worried about sack totals, then, you have to look beyond sacks! Just like MH stated earlier, sacks dont tell the whole story. Spencer has been asked to do a hell of alot more dropping back into coverage than most OLB's. I would like to see his total numbers of coverage plays compared to his rush plays. |
Thought Ware was closer to the 265 mark? Anywho, and this is something I beleive Broaddus eluded to that those DE in Tampa were somewhat protected playing next to 320lb DTs Sapp and McFarland.
I think that is something that the coaching staff will keep in mind. If Spencer is to stay and Dallas fields a DE tandem of him and Ware, I would think they would want to get bigger guys in the middle. As it stands now the biggest guy up front would be Spears at 315, and he may not be on the roster come next season.
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matt79511
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2193
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Height and weight numbers are nice, but Spencer pretty clearly doesn't have the build of a left end IMO. I don't necessarily think he'll be bad, but I don't think he'd be good enough to justify matching a market value that should be sky-rocketed by his ability to play 3-4 SOLB.
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WareWolf94
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5296
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| WizardHawk wrote: | | textaz03 wrote: | I went back and looked at the size of the 2 starting DE's for Tampa from 2002 - 2007
DE Greg Spires 6-1 265lbs
DE Simeon Rice 6-5 268lbs
DE Gaines Adams 6-5 258lbs
compared to Ware and Spencer
DE Spencer 6-3 250lbs
DE Ware 6-4 254lbs
So looking at the players that Kiffen likes for his DE, Spencer can play the part. Him and Ware will each have to pack on a few pounds of muscle (at most 15), they both have the frame for it.
Now, if your worried about Spencer being on the down side of his career, then I guess Ware is as well?? You know, since Ware is a year older. Spencer doesn't have the wear and tear of a 6 year player since he sat behind Ellis for 2 years. So to say that he is in decline is just dumb. I would say, that he is coming into his prime (or 1 year into it).
If your worried about that 2010 season when it came out that he quit on plays or took plays off, well, the whole team quit that year! He had the guts to say he did it.
If your worried about sack totals, then, you have to look beyond sacks! Just like MH stated earlier, sacks dont tell the whole story. Spencer has been asked to do a hell of alot more dropping back into coverage than most OLB's. I would like to see his total numbers of coverage plays compared to his rush plays. |
Thought Ware was closer to the 265 mark? Anywho, and this is something I beleive Broaddus eluded to that those DE in Tampa were somewhat protected playing next to 320lb DTs Sapp and McFarland.
I think that is something that the coaching staff will keep in mind. If Spencer is to stay and Dallas fields a DE tandem of him and Ware, I would think they would want to get bigger guys in the middle. As it stands now the biggest guy up front would be Spears at 315, and he may not be on the roster come next season. |
No way in hell Ware is 250.
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http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25584
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SHSTE92
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 2822
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Most places have Ware at 254.
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Football Mensa
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Texas via Louisiana and I love being Cajun...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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ZAPP wrote:
Do you already know the parameters of the deal? Do you know the Cowboys cant work out a deal to where its still financially feasible to cut him in three or four years? I know you claim to have inside sources that your too shy to even speak of with the rest of us, do those sources also include a hidden medical report that shows Spencers body is breaking down? Because he just turned 29 a few days ago and you keep talking about him likes hes two years away from retirement.
Once again, the two situations are nothing alike because there are 100's of different variables.[/quote]
Spencer hadn't missed a game since 08. Then he misses a couple this season. His price tag will be high. No reason to sign him. Which is what should have been done with Rat.
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A circle. The direction the Cowboys continue to travel.
Last edited by Football Mensa on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tyshine
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 346
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| If we are going to pay Spencer what he could get on the open market then I think it is too much. I don't think we are in a good cap situation to make a long term investment in Spencer. |
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GeneralDissaray
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 4455
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | cowboyfanin2890 wrote: | The problem with trying to resign Spencer is simple capology. To have the money to resign Spencer we will have to restructure Romo, if we restructure Romo then that means we are going to stick with him for 3 more years(at the least). If you are saying he is your QB for 3 more years then you have to put an o-line in front of him which means we cannot resign Spencer. Can you imagine our cap in 3 years when we would have Romo at 10+ milion, Carr at 8+, Ware and Spencer at 8+ each, Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter,Sean Lee, Morris Claiborne, and Demarco Murray all either getting deals or nearing deals.
Spencer was good while here but his strengths are defending the pass and holding the edge as a 3-4 backer.One of these is what not what a 4-3 end is asked to do(hold the edge yes). So we are taking half of his strengths away. It makes more sense to sign a veteran like Freeney or Osi and try to develop a guy to work on the other side of Ware. |
Again - Cap won't be why Spencer doesn't return b/c he'll only hit us for $3-5m in 2013 and in 2014 the new TV deal goes into place and the salary cap will rise significantly. |
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7744901/nfl-soaring-revenues-coincide-salary-cap-growth
| Quote: | | After having flat caps of $120.375 million in 2011 and $120.6 million in 2012, the NFL management council told clubs Tuesday that the cap won't increase much in the next three years. In fact, the 2015 cap may go up to only $122 million, according to management council projections. |
You can't argue with a man who loves Slayer, and lives in his mom's basement. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41471
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| GeneralDissaray wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | cowboyfanin2890 wrote: | The problem with trying to resign Spencer is simple capology. To have the money to resign Spencer we will have to restructure Romo, if we restructure Romo then that means we are going to stick with him for 3 more years(at the least). If you are saying he is your QB for 3 more years then you have to put an o-line in front of him which means we cannot resign Spencer. Can you imagine our cap in 3 years when we would have Romo at 10+ milion, Carr at 8+, Ware and Spencer at 8+ each, Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter,Sean Lee, Morris Claiborne, and Demarco Murray all either getting deals or nearing deals.
Spencer was good while here but his strengths are defending the pass and holding the edge as a 3-4 backer.One of these is what not what a 4-3 end is asked to do(hold the edge yes). So we are taking half of his strengths away. It makes more sense to sign a veteran like Freeney or Osi and try to develop a guy to work on the other side of Ware. |
Again - Cap won't be why Spencer doesn't return b/c he'll only hit us for $3-5m in 2013 and in 2014 the new TV deal goes into place and the salary cap will rise significantly. |
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7744901/nfl-soaring-revenues-coincide-salary-cap-growth
| Quote: | | After having flat caps of $120.375 million in 2011 and $120.6 million in 2012, the NFL management council told clubs Tuesday that the cap won't increase much in the next three years. In fact, the 2015 cap may go up to only $122 million, according to management council projections. |
You can't argue with a man who loves Slayer, and lives in his mom's basement. |
Well that sucks... greedy owners
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Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
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Spends
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 914
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Read this on ESPN about Spencer, figured I would share
Bill Polian wrote:
"He played OLB in Dallas' 3-4 scheme, but I think he's more of a 4-3 end. He is an outstanding pass-rusher. As I mentioned earlier, I'm normally wary of players having good seasons in contract years, but putting him at OLB doesn't allow him to do what he does best, which is rush upfield. And I see upside for him in a 4-3 scheme."
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BigD88
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 3832
Location: Happy Valley
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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^ I don't know if I've said this on here before, but I don't really value Bill Polian's opinion very much.
Like, at all.
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| KingofSTATS wrote: |
Witten is just too slow and nonathletic to be a dominant force in the receiving game. |
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PincheJimmy
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| BigD88 wrote: | ^ I don't know if I've said this on here before, but I don't really value Bill Polian's opinion very much.
Like, at all. |
Why is that? He has been very successful wherever he has been , Buffalo , Indy , and also ad some success in Carolina the short time he was there |
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