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Bears Prospects Draft Rankings [Mayock Bears Analysis pg17]
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Quote:
The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein hasn't met a personnel man with Alabama C Barrett Jones in the first two rounds. Don't really know what this means.

NFL.com's Albert Breer seconded Zierlein's statement. Jones racked up award after award while starting from a variety of spots along the Alabama offensive line. However, his best trait is his intelligence and positional blocking, since Jones rarely overpowers NFL caliber defensive tackles.
Jones in the second round would be a fantastic steal. I wouldn't even blink before taking him.


It’s not exactly rocket science…none of the pro scouts that Zierlein has spoken to think that Jones is worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.
So he talked to a couple of drunks in a bar, whoopdy do.
It might be a bit more then that.
Perhaps, but I don't give much weight to such vague statements. Even at its face who is to say these people can predict the draft better than you?

We all know that players often drop for no good reason so it would be good for us for this to happen. That is how we got Alex Brown and Mark Anderson. Can you imagine getting a top guard in the first or second round AND Jones in the third?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Apparently Eifert isnt looking great pre combine. I would love to trade up for him if we could get him for our 2nd and 4th ala Paea.
Or pull a Ditka and give away all our picks. We need MORE picks not fewer especially not for a TE.
We need good players. I'd give a 2nd and 4th for Eifert 10 times out of 10.
Picking TEs high is generally not a good idea. Especially when there are probably ten coming out who are not that far apart. I would not take a TE before the fourth round with the picks we have now.
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Mudderfudder77


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 1835
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Apparently Eifert isnt looking great pre combine. I would love to trade up for him if we could get him for our 2nd and 4th ala Paea.
Or pull a Ditka and give away all our picks. We need MORE picks not fewer especially not for a TE.
We need good players. I'd give a 2nd and 4th for Eifert 10 times out of 10.
Picking TEs high is generally not a good idea. Especially when there are probably ten coming out who are not that far apart. I would not take a TE before the fourth round with the picks we have now.



I don't know if that is true anymore.

If you look at TE receptions over the last ten years - 86 of the top 100 annual receptions leaders were drafted in the first three rounds. 43 of those were first round picks.

First rounders include Tony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, K Winslow Jr, Vernon Davis, Heath Miller, Todd Heap, Greg Olsen, Brandon Pettigrew, Ben Watson, Dustin Keller, Jeremy Shockey, Mercedes Lewis.

First round TE busts over the last 10 years: Daniel Graham? Graham had a long productive career, but wasn't as dominant as some others.

If the player doesn't have a first round grade - don't reach for them - regardless of position or need. But TE's are a first round positional value in today's NFL, and Eifert and Ertz have first round talent. They are far and away the best two TE's in this class.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudderfudder77 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Apparently Eifert isnt looking great pre combine. I would love to trade up for him if we could get him for our 2nd and 4th ala Paea.
Or pull a Ditka and give away all our picks. We need MORE picks not fewer especially not for a TE.
We need good players. I'd give a 2nd and 4th for Eifert 10 times out of 10.
Picking TEs high is generally not a good idea. Especially when there are probably ten coming out who are not that far apart. I would not take a TE before the fourth round with the picks we have now.



I don't know if that is true anymore.

If you look at TE receptions over the last ten years - 86 of the top 100 annual receptions leaders were drafted in the first three rounds. 43 of those were first round picks.

First rounders include Tony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, K Winslow Jr, Vernon Davis, Heath Miller, Todd Heap, Greg Olsen, Brandon Pettigrew, Ben Watson, Dustin Keller, Jeremy Shockey, Mercedes Lewis.

First round TE busts over the last 10 years: Daniel Graham? Graham had a long productive career, but wasn't as dominant as some others.

If the player doesn't have a first round grade - don't reach for them - regardless of position or need. But TE's are a first round positional value in today's NFL, and Eifert and Ertz have first round talent. They are far and away the best two TE's in this class.
I do not believe there is such a clear difference between these two and the rest of the class as you take as a given. Ertz had a nice year: 69, 898, 6 but who would expect those numbers would go UP next year? Not me. There were many TEs whose numbers in one or more of those categories were close to Ertz and Eifert was not even in the NCAA list of receptions per game, or yds per game.

Now either or both might turn out to be Ditka but I don't want to spend our first or second pick on that chance.
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Mudderfudder77


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
I do not believe there is such a clear difference between these two and the rest of the class as you take as a given. Ertz had a nice year: 69, 898, 6 but who would expect those numbers would go UP next year? Not me. There were many TEs whose numbers in one or more of those categories were close to Ertz and Eifert was not even in the NCAA list of receptions per game, or yds per game.

Now either or both might turn out to be Ditka but I don't want to spend our first or second pick on that chance.



That doesn't mean a whole lot. Eifert and Ertz put up there numbers against top schools and players that will be playing on sundays.

Drafting based on college statistic leaderboards isn't a very good strategy.
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Adopt-a-Bear Kyle Long

PFF Grade through Regular-Season Game 3: 2.7 (20th in NFL) Highest rated rookie OL

Highest rated OL in the Pre-Season
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TE would not be my first choice, but it would be a good choice.

If we do not go OT/OG I fully expect us to take a TE in the 1st round unless it is addressed in free agency.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Quote:
The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein hasn't met a personnel man with Alabama C Barrett Jones in the first two rounds. Don't really know what this means.

NFL.com's Albert Breer seconded Zierlein's statement. Jones racked up award after award while starting from a variety of spots along the Alabama offensive line. However, his best trait is his intelligence and positional blocking, since Jones rarely overpowers NFL caliber defensive tackles.
Jones in the second round would be a fantastic steal. I wouldn't even blink before taking him.


It’s not exactly rocket science…none of the pro scouts that Zierlein has spoken to think that Jones is worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.
So he talked to a couple of drunks in a bar, whoopdy do.


Yeah because that's what personnel man do.
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MiBears4


Joined: 08 Feb 2013
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Barrett Jones Reply with quote

I just did my precombine big board. I had Jones listed as the 45 best player on the board. If things don't change ( and they will change), he should be there at 50.
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raq11


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 686
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good read on Cooper

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-north-carolina-guard-jonathan-cooper
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I watch Tavon Austin the more I think he could be the guy at #20 if we aren’t going to get one of the better Olinemen…I think if we are looking for a weapon the obvious target would be Tyler Eifert but I feel there are guys later in the draft who can do things similar to him…obviously not as well but similar…I don’t see anyone with the ability Austin does in this year’s draft…sure a guy like Marquise Goodwin has the speed but that is the only thing he has in common with Austin who is fast on the field and has far better skills as a WR…for me Austin’s floor is DeSean Jackson without the big mouth…his ceiling could be a more athletic & explosive Wes Welker…Austin can score from anywhere on the field…putting him in Trestman’s scheme that is going to attack the middle of the field gives us a massive mismatch in the slot…you put him in the backfield with Aaron Kromer teaching the Oline how to run a screen properly like he did with the Saints and he would be extremely dangerous…bring him on jet sweeps or even fakes and you are freezing a defence…and then you can put him on special teams with our unit which will hopefully be as good under DeCamillis as it was Toub and it’s another threat…as good as Eifert is I don’t feel he offers all that.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Austin intrigues me a lot, but I think his floor mostly because of size is lower than you are saying.

It would be a risky pick because of need and his size.

One factor that might play into these things is that Emery's first draft has not really stepped up or did not really produce as rookies. He might lean towards a safer pick like Cooper or Eifert who have very little chance of not being impact starters for the Bears.

It is human nature to want to protect your job and insulate your self from critism.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Austin intrigues me a lot, but I think his floor mostly because of size is lower than you are saying.

It would be a risky pick because of need and his size.

One factor that might play into these things is that Emery's first draft has not really stepped up or did not really produce as rookies. He might lean towards a safer pick like Cooper or Eifert who have very little chance of not being impact starters for the Bears.

It is human nature to want to protect your job and insulate your self from critism.


Jackson is only an inch taller and 1lb lighter…and Austin plays far tougher and bigger than Jackson does…

I think the other thing to remember is the days of big safeties taking the head off of slot receivers are gone…Austin wouldn’t have to take the hits we have seen in the past and with the game becoming more spread out I don’t think the size of a weapon type WR is really important…sure I think you always want your #1 to be 6-3” or bigger but a guy who is going to be moved around a lot to take advantage of that space I don’t think he needs to be a big guy in today’s NFL…

If Cooper is on the board he needs to be the pick…it’s that simple for me…if he hits #20 he is the BPA and fills a massive need for the next 10 years…but I don’t like the chances of it…if it comes down to Eifert or Austin then it becomes real interesting.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walterfootball Mock Draft

1[20] WR Tavon Austin [West Virginia]
2[50] OG Kyle Long [Oregon]
4. TE Dion Sims [Michigan St]
5. OT Ried Fragel [Ohio St]
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Austin intrigues me a lot, but I think his floor mostly because of size is lower than you are saying.

It would be a risky pick because of need and his size.

One factor that might play into these things is that Emery's first draft has not really stepped up or did not really produce as rookies. He might lean towards a safer pick like Cooper or Eifert who have very little chance of not being impact starters for the Bears.

It is human nature to want to protect your job and insulate your self from critism.


Jackson is only an inch taller and 1lb lighter…and Austin plays far tougher and bigger than Jackson does…

I think the other thing to remember is the days of big safeties taking the head off of slot receivers are gone…Austin wouldn’t have to take the hits we have seen in the past and with the game becoming more spread out I don’t think the size of a weapon type WR is really important…sure I think you always want your #1 to be 6-3” or bigger but a guy who is going to be moved around a lot to take advantage of that space I don’t think he needs to be a big guy in today’s NFL…

If Cooper is on the board he needs to be the pick…it’s that simple for me…if he hits #20 he is the BPA and fills a massive need for the next 10 years…but I don’t like the chances of it…if it comes down to Eifert or Austin then it becomes real interesting.


I like Austin and would be happy with the pick.

But many would consider it a reach for a gimmicky player and some people would consider McClellin that very thing.

I could see, and this is a hypothetical, Emery wanting to avoid th following questions if Austin struggles,

"Why did you pick an undersized slot WR when you had needs at OL and TE?"

"Why in back to back drafts did you reach for undersized speed players that have stuggled to make an impact?"

I am not saying this changes his mind but I guarantee he would think about it before the pick.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Austin intrigues me a lot, but I think his floor mostly because of size is lower than you are saying.

It would be a risky pick because of need and his size.

One factor that might play into these things is that Emery's first draft has not really stepped up or did not really produce as rookies. He might lean towards a safer pick like Cooper or Eifert who have very little chance of not being impact starters for the Bears.

It is human nature to want to protect your job and insulate your self from critism.


Jackson is only an inch taller and 1lb lighter…and Austin plays far tougher and bigger than Jackson does…

I think the other thing to remember is the days of big safeties taking the head off of slot receivers are gone…Austin wouldn’t have to take the hits we have seen in the past and with the game becoming more spread out I don’t think the size of a weapon type WR is really important…sure I think you always want your #1 to be 6-3” or bigger but a guy who is going to be moved around a lot to take advantage of that space I don’t think he needs to be a big guy in today’s NFL…

If Cooper is on the board he needs to be the pick…it’s that simple for me…if he hits #20 he is the BPA and fills a massive need for the next 10 years…but I don’t like the chances of it…if it comes down to Eifert or Austin then it becomes real interesting.


I like Austin and would be happy with the pick.

But many would consider it a reach for a gimmicky player and some people would consider McClellin that very thing.

I could see, and this is a hypothetical, Emery wanting to avoid th following questions if Austin struggles,

"Why did you pick an undersized slot WR when you had needs at OL and TE?"

"Why in back to back drafts did you reach for undersized speed players that have stuggled to make an impact?"

I am not saying this changes his mind but I guarantee he would think about it before the pick.


I don’t think he would give a rats [inappropriate/removed] about these questions lol…Emery is going to take the player he thinks best fits what we need…if Trestman tells Emery he has a plan for Austin and Emery likes him then he will be the pick if he is the player at the top of our board…this isn’t Jerry Angelo…we are dealing with a professional here who isn’t interested in popularity with the media.
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