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Scrap the 3-4 and the ZBS...
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1915
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
TBH I'm still confused at what the exact problem is with this defense. It's probably a combination of many things, but I will say this. It seems like every year we are hearing about communication problems and guys not in the right place. Complicating things by going with a hybrid or other variations just seem like adding gas to a 4 year fire.


I dont think you're wrong, but I have been on board with a hybrid for years now and wish they'd go to one. Also, there is no reason we cant go with a traditional 3-4 and put 7 in the box against the heavy bruising teams. It would make too much sense.

I think pickett needs to go back to NT, and we need some more speed infused on our D. That would go a long way.

In regards to the communication breakdowns, some of it might be the younger players playing premium roles and players like woodson being moved into positions they're not comfortable with. I think it comes down to Dom asking them to do too much. We're overcoaching our players. Lets face it, this is not a Harvard team- some of these guys are better players than students and that needs to be accounted for by the staff. Let them play and stop confusing them with all the assignments they're giving out.
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pollino14


Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the ZBS, it hasn't worked. Our running game sucks. I wouldnt mind a change.

On transitioning D's, I believe we have the right personell for it, I really do. I love Worthy and Raji as our DTs, I think Nick Perry would be great as an end and I think Neal would be a good DE as well. We'd have to draft another one, but that's a solid group.

Clay would play the Von Miller position (which I still don't know how Denver does it, if someone can explain), and would still be a top player.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2790
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pollino14 wrote:
For the ZBS, it hasn't worked. Our running game sucks. I wouldnt mind a change.

On transitioning D's, I believe we have the right personell for it, I really do. I love Worthy and Raji as our DTs, I think Nick Perry would be great as an end and I think Neal would be a good DE as well. We'd have to draft another one, but that's a solid group.

Clay would play the Von Miller position (which I still don't know how Denver does it, if someone can explain), and would still be a top player.


Denver runs a 3-4. Who in their right mind would make a classic 3-4 LB like Caly Mathews and either turn him into a DE or 4-3 OLB. That's nuts.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gizmo2012 wrote:
pollino14 wrote:
For the ZBS, it hasn't worked. Our running game sucks. I wouldnt mind a change.

On transitioning D's, I believe we have the right personell for it, I really do. I love Worthy and Raji as our DTs, I think Nick Perry would be great as an end and I think Neal would be a good DE as well. We'd have to draft another one, but that's a solid group.

Clay would play the Von Miller position (which I still don't know how Denver does it, if someone can explain), and would still be a top player.


Denver runs a 3-4. Who in their right mind would make a classic 3-4 LB like Caly Mathews and either turn him into a DE or 4-3 OLB. That's nuts.
Their Depth Chart says 4-3. Though I'm convinced they're much better suited for 3-4.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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Location: MKE
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
pollino14 wrote:
For the ZBS, it hasn't worked. Our running game sucks. I wouldnt mind a change.

On transitioning D's, I believe we have the right personell for it, I really do. I love Worthy and Raji as our DTs, I think Nick Perry would be great as an end and I think Neal would be a good DE as well. We'd have to draft another one, but that's a solid group.

Clay would play the Von Miller position (which I still don't know how Denver does it, if someone can explain), and would still be a top player.


Denver runs a 3-4. Who in their right mind would make a classic 3-4 LB like Caly Mathews and either turn him into a DE or 4-3 OLB. That's nuts.
Their Depth Chart says 4-3. Though I'm convinced they're much better suited for 3-4.


I haven't watched them play much, but yes they run a 4-3 and have Von Miller blitz a lot. The final scheme is much like an 3-4 would work if we blitzed all 5 and dropped the 2 MLBs. Same thing, only they drop the MLB and other OLB.
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General_Bean


Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Clay, AJ Hawk and Perry all play 4-3 in their respective colleges? Would it really be a difficult transition? I mean yes, Clay did play LB, but maybe some LBs may flourish in a 4-3 being a DE.

It'd just be nice if we could get pressure with a 4 man rush and dropping our ball hawking 7 other players.

O/T: What happened to the psycho package?
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gizmo2012 wrote:
pollino14 wrote:
For the ZBS, it hasn't worked. Our running game sucks. I wouldnt mind a change.

On transitioning D's, I believe we have the right personell for it, I really do. I love Worthy and Raji as our DTs, I think Nick Perry would be great as an end and I think Neal would be a good DE as well. We'd have to draft another one, but that's a solid group.

Clay would play the Von Miller position (which I still don't know how Denver does it, if someone can explain), and would still be a top player.


Denver runs a 3-4. Who in their right mind would make a classic 3-4 LB like Caly Mathews and either turn him into a DE or 4-3 OLB. That's nuts.


They actually use a hybrid D... yes, their base is 4-3, but they use a 3-4 front on occasion, as do the Falcons and Patriots (ATL actually mostly used a 3-4 base in the NFCCG), 2 more teams with a 4-3 base D.

Also, Neal might be a wee bit too big for a 4-3 DE (he weighs 294 lbs.), but I wouldn't object to drafting a hybrid 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE like Okafor in the 2nd round if he falls, which is doubtful. That way, we can have Perry and Okafor line up on the edge when we use the 4-3 front, and Perry and Matthews on the edge in the 3-4, give us a little flexibility. IDK about using a 1st round pick on such a player, though.
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Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
Let's say hypothetically, that a transition to a 4-3 was being discussed. How do each of the front seven players fit?

Sure, Clay Matthews could play as a RDE, but do you really think that plays to his strengths? I mean, he can do it but he's better when he's got a bit of space between him and an offensive tackle. Speed is his best strength, but he's got the power there as well. I'd rather use him similar to the way Denver uses Von Miller as a really good SAM.

Going forward...

LDE Mike Neal
NT B.J. Raji
UT Jerel Worthy
RDE ???

WILL AJ Hawk
MIKE Desmond Bishop
SAM Clay Matthews

Sure, Mike Neal probably isn't the ideal LDE but he could probably play there at a decent level but you've got a HUGE gap at RDE.


Obviously the ideal at RDE would be Perry. If we have an elephant linebacker role like there is in Seattle and New England, it may be the best use of our accumulated talent there is.

Not saying we should switch, but such a scheme would be ideal.
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KManX89


Joined: 25 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What say you guys to drafting a complimentary 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE hybrid player if we switch to a hybrid? Like a Montgomery, Mingo, Jordan, Okafor, etc? Our alignments could look a little something like this (NOTE: these are just the starters)...

4-3 front:

Perry-Raji-Worthy-[Draft pick]
Hawk (or, I surmise, a drafted ILB)-Bishop-Matthews
Williams-Woodson-Burnett-Shields

3-4 front:

Pickett-Raji-Worthy
Perry-Hawk-Bishop-Matthews
Williams-Woodson-Burnett-Shields

And then we can use our drafted hybrid-type player (whoever it may be) to spell Matthews or Perry on 3rd down, or shoe-in as the starter in the 3-4 alignment in the case of an injury to either player. This allows us to mix all different types of personnel packages, "ease" in our drafted player (preferably Okafor in the early-mid 2nd or, I guess I would be okay with Montgomery or Mingo in the 1st if they fell) while still giving him the needed reps, keep our starters fresh, and use all 3 of our edge rushers in the more "natural" positions, so it comes with a ton of benefits. We can use Perry and our draft pick to rush the passer in the 4-3 (with Matthews playing the Von Miller role in such a front) and Perry and Matthews on the edge in the 3-4. Plus, Perry said he always wanted to play with his hand in the dirt, so this will make him more comfortable.
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