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The 15th pick: Why it might not be a pass rusher!

 
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: The 15th pick: Why it might not be a pass rusher! Reply with quote

I have been thinking about this for some time now and while Iím sure that most will scream BPA at 15, I feel the Saints will look to land a player that will walk in and start from day one and be an impact player for this defense. With this thinking I decided to really go through the presumed defensive depth chart for next season and unbiasly target the starting jobs that I believe the Saints will look to upgrade.

First, here are the positions I feel the Saints will consider themselves set at with their current startersÖ

LE: Akiem Hicks
Hicks has this spot on lock, he possesses the most potential of any Saints defender on the roster.

NT: Brodrick Bunkley
During his time in Denver when the Broncos lined him up directly over the center, Bunkley graded out as the top run stuffer in the NFL.

RE: Cameron Jordan
Jordan will be getting back to doing what he does best in 2013, the Pro-Bowl isnít just wishful thinking for him.

SLB: Junior Galette
I donít believe there is a more excited player on the roster over the news of the switch than Galette and with recording 5 sacks in 2012 while playing only 25% of the defensive snaps, one can understand why.

ILB: Curtis Lofton
I feel Lofton will make a seamless transition into this new scheme and will continue his sure tackling ways in 2013.

WLB: Martez Wilson
At one point I felt that maybe Wilsonís best position would be back inside but reports out of New Orleans state that one of the biggest reasons the 34 scheme appealed to Payton was the potential of Jordan & Hicks at ends and Galette & Wilson as rush linebackers. Wilson, Like Galette played less than 25% of the defensive snaps in 2103 but still managed to record 3 sacks (should have been 4 if not for a bogus personal foul call) as a standup edge rusher.

FS: Malcolm Jenkins
Whether itís right or wrong, I feel Jenkins will get a chance to prove that last season was a fluke under Spagnuolo and that he can finally turn all his potential into production.


So, with these positions filled for the time being letís look at the positions that a rookie taken with the 15th overall pick could come in and be an instant impact player on this unitÖ

Strong Safety
I believe that Roman Harper could very well be a cap casualty this offseason. Even if he is willing to restructure, our new DC will likely want to upgrade the positionís coverage ability. Reserve safety Isa Abdul-Quddus could likely be the favorite to replace Harper if he is let go but the Saints could also decide that a more of an impact player is needed at the position and look to find that guy with their top pick.

Strong Safety prospects worth the 15th pick: Kenny Vaccaro, Matt Elam & Eric Reid

Cornerback
Honestly guysÖ I donít believe any cornerback on this roster should feel like they have secured a roster spot let alone a starting position. Patrick Robinson is the most talented corner we have but he needs to become more consistent, Jabari Greer is aging and could be a cap casualty, Corey White possesses potential but will need to make major strides in 2013 to earn a starting job and everyone else is just a guy.

Cornerback prospects worth the 15th pick: Dee Milliner, Marcus Trufant, Zavior Rhodes & Jonathan Banks.

Inside Linebacker
While Iím sure Curtis Lofton will make a seamless transition into our new scheme, I have my doubts about David Hawthorneís future with the club. Hawthorne battled injuries this past season and was rumored to fall out of favor with the coaching staff over his displeasure over how he was being utilized. Hawthorne was on record of saying that he didnít sign with the Saints to play SLB and that it was the WLB position he was signed for. He also complained about how the SLB position didnít fit his body type and how the position was a lot more physically demanding and is meant for a player with a bigger stature. Well, that doesnít sound like a guy that is going to take to kindly to playing inside in a 34 where he would be tested physically every play. I could be wrong here but David Hawthorne could likely be playing elsewhere in 2013.

Inside Linebacker prospects worth the 15th pick: Alex Ogletree, Manti Teío, Auther Brown & Kevin Minter.


Well there it isÖ will our 15th pick be used on a player that will be looked at as an instant day one starter or do you still believe they will take the top edge rusher or nose tackle that falls to them?

Of course Sean Payton could surprise us all and sign ILB Larry Grant, CB Cary Williams & SS LaRon Landry in free agency then draft Oklahomaís Lane Johnson at 15 and shock us all!


WHODAT
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll wait until we hire the new DC to make a decision on Bunkley. As for Junior and Tez, I love their athletic ability, but I don't want to count my eggs before they hatch. We all have a lot of faith in them, but there's a lot of 3-4 OLB talent in this draft. If we pass on a guy that becomes a superstar because we thought Galette and Tez were the answers we'll be kicking ourselves. I think Lofton is a blue collar plug in play guy in most schemes, and he'll be fine. I think Hawthorne is too small for the scheme, and shouldn't start. I don't know what should be done with him, honestly. I agree we need depth at corner and that no one should feel comfortable at the position. The safeties are complete trash, and I want both gone. With that being said, it's going to be interesting to see what we do in FA. Also, I like Hankins, but I feel we can get a quality NT in later rounds. With this switch, getting back our second rounder would be huge. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we get our 2nd back, I wouldn't mind us trading next years 1st and our 2nd to get back into the 1st to get a 2nd defensive prospect.

So say we leave the 1st round with Hankins & Ogletree securing our front 7 and we bring in CB Cary Williams and SS Kenny Phillips in FA that would set up our defense nicely not to mention there are several players that would be able to be traded even if just for mid round picks.

Bunkley 5th-7th
Harper 4th-6th + Conditional 2014 pick
Vilma 6th-7th
Greer 5th-7th

So even if we got a 6th, 5th + conditional, 6th, 6th for those guys we clear cap space as well as let Payton and Loomis go to work finding gems.'

DE-Hicks
NT-Hankins*
DE-Jordan
OLB-Galette
ILB-Lofton
ILB-Ogletree*
OLB-Wilson
CB-Williams**
FS-Jenkins
SS-Phillips**
CB-Robinson
NCB-White

I could see only Williams being expensive of the two in FA. Phillips is coming off an injury and will likely need to prove his health to teams so we can probably get him on a 1 year deal for relatively cheap, especially compared to Harper's deal, and if he isn't 100% we got IAD to take over at SS.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just really, really hate Jenkins
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
I just really, really hate Jenkins

Me too, I hate that he continues to get chances, he hasn't done ANYTHING his entire career and yet he gets chance after chance, he needs to kick rocks.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
I just really, really hate Jenkins

Me too, I hate that he continues to get chances, he hasn't done ANYTHING his entire career and yet he gets chance after chance, he needs to kick rocks.


Jenkins can play any position in the secondary...except for the one he plays at that moment. Harper gets torched by Saints fans.. but at least he does somethings well...unlike Jenkins.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
I just really, really hate Jenkins

Me too, I hate that he continues to get chances, he hasn't done ANYTHING his entire career and yet he gets chance after chance, he needs to kick rocks.


Jenkins can play any position in the secondary...except for the one he plays at that moment. Harper gets torched by Saints fans.. but at least he does somethings well...unlike Jenkins.

Yeah I really don't get it. Harpers time here is likely done but he's always been an excellent blitzed and great in run support, Jenkins does nothing at a good level... Except sucking
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If we get our 2nd back, I wouldn't mind us trading next years 1st and our 2nd to get back into the 1st to get a 2nd defensive prospect.


Typically I'd be so against this but with the switch and the overall depth on the defensive prospects in this class, the Saints could land a defensive players in the back end of the 1st that would normally be a top 20 pick in most drafts.

The Green Bay Packers did this to perfection the year they made the switch. They drafted BJ Ragi early, then moved back into the latter part of the 1st to get Clay Matthews.

This draft has the overall defensive depth for the Saints to accomplish something similar...

Say they take Hankins at 15 who is viewed as a Ragi type guy, then trade back into the back half and get a guy like Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery, etc.
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thesolution


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Harper had a good year in 2012 and Jenkins had 1 in 2011. It bolds down to contract. I dont think that giving Harper that contract was a Payton move. Who knows Bush mite beat them out.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
I'll wait until we hire the new DC to make a decision on Bunkley. As for Junior and Tez, I love their athletic ability, but I don't want to count my eggs before they hatch. We all have a lot of faith in them, but there's a lot of 3-4 OLB talent in this draft. If we pass on a guy that becomes a superstar because we thought Galette and Tez were the answers we'll be kicking ourselves. I think Lofton is a blue collar plug in play guy in most schemes, and he'll be fine. I think Hawthorne is too small for the scheme, and shouldn't start. I don't know what should be done with him, honestly. I agree we need depth at corner and that no one should feel comfortable at the position. The safeties are complete trash, and I want both gone. With that being said, it's going to be interesting to see what we do in FA. Also, I like Hankins, but I feel we can get a quality NT in later rounds. With this switch, getting back our second rounder would be huge. Keeping my fingers crossed!


Reports out of Pittsburgh say that the Steelers are to move 6'3" 300lb DE Ziggy Hood to NT in 2013. A former 1st round pick who underwhelmed as a pass rusher but is a solid run defender could make the transition seamlessly.

Sound familiar...

If the Steelers believe the 6'3" 300lb Ziggy Hood can hold up at NT, why should we feel that our 6'2" 310lb Brodrick Bunkley couldn't play the position in a 1 or 2 gap?

To me, Bunkley has a much better anchor than Hood and is a way better run defender. That's just my opinion though.
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wow_junky


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not keen on any moves up this year... between the Ingram trade and bounty gate we've already lost 3 2nd round picks, lots of talent we are missing out on
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow_junky wrote:
I'm not keen on any moves up this year... between the Ingram trade and bounty gate we've already lost 3 2nd round picks, lots of talent we are missing out on


Tru dat man... tru dat! Saints potentially missing out on 2 starters. 2nd round selections are a premium in this league.

We give up one in the Ingram trade, then Goodell takes two for the performance plan suspensions so actually 3 starters. I don't care what franchise you are, losing 3 2nd round picks in concetutive years is a killer.

Man I hope Goodell reconsiders his suspension of our 2013 pick!

Either way, if their is a player the Saints feel comfortable getting on the back end of round 1 who might be a fringe 1st-2nd rounder, we need to do all we can to move back and start to try and recoup some of these lost players.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harp,

Maybe you can answer this for me.

Say we cut/do not retain the services of the following players...

Vilma
Smith
Ellis
Harper
McBride
Shanle
Hawthorne
Henderson
Chamberlin
Casillas

That's a sizable chunk of our cap... what could we expect in a compensatory pick this April?

3rd, 4th, 5th, nothing?
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harp,

Maybe you can answer this for me.

Say we cut/do not retain the services of the following players...

Vilma
Smith
Ellis
Harper
McBride
Shanle
Hawthorne
Henderson
Chamberlin
Casillas

That's a sizable chunk of our cap... what could we expect in a compensatory pick this April?

3rd, 4th, 5th, nothing?

Cut players don't count for compensation picks but if we don't make any big signings I could see us getting a 4th for Jermon Bushrod.
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