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FFMD '13: Cardinals War Room
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 9063
Location: White Lake, Mi.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, your willing to keep Kolb for 11.5 million to try and be "seriviceable". I respect your opinion but my question back is... What have you seen that makes you think he's so capable. Yeah your line was bad, but even Skelton was clearly better behind the same shambled line(though I know exact personel wasn't always the same).

From an outside looking in on this deal, ever since it started, it's looked bad for the Cardinals. Though, they were smart enough to leave themselve the option this year to get him off the hook without much cap issues.

I'll agree with Matt Moore but just by cutting Kolb and signing Moore your saving a boat load of money and basically making a lateral move at the QB, possibly an upgrade.


Last edited by Jrugges on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strictly from a cap aspect of things, keeping Kolb in some sort of restructure format is far more advantageous than releasing him.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
Really, your willing to keep Kolb for 11.5 million to try and be "seriviceable". I respect your opinion but my question back is... What have you seen that makes you think he's so capable. Yeah your line was bad, but even Skelton was clearly better behind the same shambled line(though I know exact personel wasn't always the same).

From an outside looking in on this deal, ever since it started, it's looked bad for the Cardinals. Though, they were smart enough to leave themselve the option this year to get him off the hook without much cap issues.

I'll agree with Matt Moore but just by cutting Kolb and signing Moore your saving a boat load of money and basically making a lateral move at the QB, possibly an upgrade.


Bolded: No, no, no. Releasing Kevin Kolb costs this team money, it doesn't save us a dime.
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JohnnyV


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Strictly from a cap aspect of things, keeping Kolb in some sort of restructure format is far more advantageous than releasing him.


Exactly, and I'm sorry I didn't clarify the notion of Kolb staying is under the impression he takes a cut.
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JohnnyV


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
Really, your willing to keep Kolb for 11.5 million to try and be "seriviceable". I respect your opinion but my question back is... What have you seen that makes you think he's so capable. Yeah your line was bad, but even Skelton was clearly better behind the same shambled line(though I know exact personel wasn't always the same).

From an outside looking in on this deal, ever since it started, it's looked bad for the Cardinals. Though, they were smart enough to leave themselve the option this year to get him off the hook without much cap issues.

I'll agree with Matt Moore but just by cutting Kolb and signing Moore your saving a boat load of money and basically making a lateral move at the QB, possibly an upgrade.


I don't know how you've come up with this info. Skelton may have been the worst starting quarterback in football last season minus say Lindley who was a 6th round rookie.

Kolb vs Skelton isn't close.
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Strictly from a cap aspect of things, keeping Kolb in some sort of restructure format is far more advantageous than releasing him.


Getting him to restructure is one thing though.

Quote:
2013

9,000,000. Salary

2,000,000. S. Bonus

3,900,000. Misc. Bonus

14,900,000. Cap Hit


Not sure if this is even counting his 2013 Roster Bonus: $2 million

5.9 million in dead cap if we cut him I believe saving quite a bit. Though I think we have to move the rest of his signing bonus to this year meaning we'll only end up saving 1.9 million.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just texted my buddy, he informs me that I am a liar. Says we'd save around a 1.2 million cap dollars by cutting Kevin Kolb. My apologies Jrugges.

Of course, signing Matt Moore would cost us more than 1.2 mill but that's neither here nor there.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Just texted my buddy, he informs me that I am a liar. Says we'd save around a 1.2 million cap dollars by cutting Kevin Kolb. My apologies Jrugges.

Of course, signing Matt Moore would cost us more than 1.2 mill but that's neither here nor there.


You give Kolb the same oline Moore had circa 2011 and I bet the results are very much the same.
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Really, your willing to keep Kolb for 11.5 million to try and be "seriviceable". I respect your opinion but my question back is... What have you seen that makes you think he's so capable. Yeah your line was bad, but even Skelton was clearly better behind the same shambled line(though I know exact personel wasn't always the same).

From an outside looking in on this deal, ever since it started, it's looked bad for the Cardinals. Though, they were smart enough to leave themselve the option this year to get him off the hook without much cap issues.

I'll agree with Matt Moore but just by cutting Kolb and signing Moore your saving a boat load of money and basically making a lateral move at the QB, possibly an upgrade.


Bolded: No, no, no. Releasing Kevin Kolb costs this team money, it doesn't save us a dime.


Really? How much does it end up costing the Cardinals if he is cut?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Really, your willing to keep Kolb for 11.5 million to try and be "seriviceable". I respect your opinion but my question back is... What have you seen that makes you think he's so capable. Yeah your line was bad, but even Skelton was clearly better behind the same shambled line(though I know exact personel wasn't always the same).

From an outside looking in on this deal, ever since it started, it's looked bad for the Cardinals. Though, they were smart enough to leave themselve the option this year to get him off the hook without much cap issues.

I'll agree with Matt Moore but just by cutting Kolb and signing Moore your saving a boat load of money and basically making a lateral move at the QB, possibly an upgrade.


Bolded: No, no, no. Releasing Kevin Kolb costs this team money, it doesn't save us a dime.


Really? How much does it end up costing the Cardinals if he is cut?


Read my last post. Again, my apologies.
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Just texted my buddy, he informs me that I am a liar. Says we'd save around a 1.2 million cap dollars by cutting Kevin Kolb. My apologies Jrugges.

Of course, signing Matt Moore would cost us more than 1.2 mill but that's neither here nor there.


Your right, no money will be actually saved by making the lateral move, but even a mid round QB would be a better option, imo, than continuing to try and develope Kevin Kolb at his current price.

No apologies needed, this is my second favorite team and I can easily miss juduge things since they're not as often watched as my Lions are. It's nice to get real opinions from people who watch/read about this team EVERYDAY.

As far as Kolb goes, forgive me but I thought he was just as impressive or unimpressive as Skelton. Skelton got to play under a more injury riddled offense than Kolb did early in the year, and when I watched Kolb week 1 he LOOKED TERRIBLE. Same with the blowout win vs Philly. Very unimpressive. Just my thoughts.

I'm open to a restructure too though if it ends up saving this team more than a million and change though. Not saying Kolb can't be kept at a decent price and bring a solid competitive spirit in the camp if we do draft/sign/trade for someone else. Just think we need the ideas flowing so when our GM does get on and he gives us a game plan of what he wants to do we have explored most of what he'll want anyways. I sure he's not wanting to keep Kolb at the current price, so it's productive to talk amongst ourselfs on the best way to utilize him(restructure/cut).


Last edited by Jrugges on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was right on that though, restructuring Kevin Kolb is far more advantageous to us CAP WISE than a release is. If done right, we could easily save anywhere from 4-7 million in 2013 alone on a restructured deal. A release from what I'm told gains us about 1.2 million cap dollars.

Purely from a cap stand point, this is where we sit. I'll leave the actual on field play discussions to our management team.
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
I was right on that though, restructuring Kevin Kolb is far more advantageous to us CAP WISE than a release is. If done right, we could easily save anywhere from 4-7 million in 2013 alone on a restructured deal. A release from what I'm told gains us about 1.2 million cap dollars.

Purely from a cap stand point, this is where we sit. I'll leave the actual on field play discussions to our management team.


Your definately right, and I definately thought more was saved, didn't realize the four million from the signing bonus allocated in other years.

I'm going to have to talk with the GM, and see what's his best idea to solve the position, I'm like you and now am starting to think restructure is the best option for the Cardinals, at worst, Kolb's a fringe starter/back-up type Qb which is still valueable but either way we're going to over compensate for his services if he's on this team.
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An I don't think JohnnyV was off by saying Kolb's about as good as Matt Moore is right now. It's just the price is clearly upsetting and it's got to be lowered.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
I was right on that though, restructuring Kevin Kolb is far more advantageous to us CAP WISE than a release is. If done right, we could easily save anywhere from 4-7 million in 2013 alone on a restructured deal. A release from what I'm told gains us about 1.2 million cap dollars.

Purely from a cap stand point, this is where we sit. I'll leave the actual on field play discussions to our management team.


This right here is big time. This is where focus needs to be. Kolb is serviceable and it's in our best interest to make it work with him while everything else offensively IE future QB, RB, OL remains in flux.

Needless to say, an extra 7 million goes a long way.
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