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vikings trade scenario opiniond needed (Harvin/Allen)
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biggsohnasty


Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did Kevin Williams have his best year in 3 years? He had a career low in tackles, sacks, TFLs, QB pressures, and beyond that, just watching him, you could see he wasnt disruptive and didnt make an impact that you would expect from a guy of his stature.

I like him, I hope we restructure him, but if we give him over 5 mil a year I consider it a bad signing. At this point, he isnt anything more than a good rotation player and 2 down guy.

In regards to trading Allen, I agree with the notion that he's probably worth more to us then he is anybody else. I wouldve been on board with it had we not been as good as we were this year, but as it stands, to take the next step, our pass rush needs to continue to be a strength/get stronger
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PurpleNation22


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xDarealx wrote:
wcblack34 wrote:
xDarealx wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
xDarealx wrote:
Understandable but cmon y not trade hime in half the snaps everson had 8 sacks. Y not get something for him now

Because we can give Jared an extension and keep him here until he's 35. He hasn't shown many signs of slowing down.

And, as disaacs said, Robison is a free agent after next season and is the same age as Allen basically.

Allen and Everson DE combo will look good in 2014.


So we give hime an extension till he"s 35? Why? why not trade him now and get alot for him? I like allen also, but what would be better for the team? Take the chance he declines like kevin williams or trade him now to get young talent on the team.



This is another classic case of people over-valuing draft picks. If you keep trading away proven players, you end up in perpetual rebuilding mode.

Are u joking. For a team that doesn't get top tier talent from free agency, then draft picks are important. And what are the jets doing right now with the best cb in football. And secondly who says Allen will sign an extension


1. The Jets are being idiots, but that organization is in a lot more trouble than just this Revis thing. They're playing for headlines instead of titles.

2. We don't need top tier free agent talent, the draft is the way to go.

3. Jared will not net as much as you think. So say we trade him to Atlanta for their 1st rounder. Can you honestly say you'd take that pick over a proven player like Jared. That pick could potentially be a bust, and if they don't bust, they will most likely not be Jared's caliber.

4. Jared will probably sign an extension. He loves Minnesota, why? Hunting, fishing, rednecking around Very Happy. Honestly, it doesn't get better than Minnesota for Jared. He loves this team and with how we played this year, showing that we can get to the playoffs and have potential to win in any game we're in, he won't necessarily want out of that kind of potential.
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PrplChilPill


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it much more likely KC would do a deal like that, they are close to being good....oh, the "fantasy free agent football follies" draft I've been thinking about is built on that....
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggsohnasty wrote:
How did Kevin Williams have his best year in 3 years? He had a career low in tackles, sacks, TFLs, QB pressures, and beyond that, just watching him, you could see he wasnt disruptive and didnt make an impact that you would expect from a guy of his stature.

I like him, I hope we restructure him, but if we give him over 5 mil a year I consider it a bad signing. At this point, he isnt anything more than a good rotation player and 2 down guy.

In regards to trading Allen, I agree with the notion that he's probably worth more to us then he is anybody else. I wouldve been on board with it had we not been as good as we were this year, but as it stands, to take the next step, our pass rush needs to continue to be a strength/get stronger


I largely agree, id rather release Williams to be honest. Williams is a two down player and isnt nearly as effective as he once was. I do agree, $5+ million for Williams is too much.
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joru1000


Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Williams is very reliable for us and we have absolutely no one to replace him with anyways. We just made the playoffs, and should be aware that we are capable of going again next year. This isn't time to mess around and toy with the things that have been reliable for us.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin certainly isn't the player he used to be, but he had no help from the guy playing inside with him. Bring in a guy like Short or Floyd to play that disruptive 1-tech, add in a healthy Jared Allen, and Williams should have a much better season.

That being said if he won't restructure from his 8M base salary I'd have to think long and hard about cutting him loose.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Kevin certainly isn't the player he used to be, but he had no help from the guy playing inside with him. Bring in a guy like Short or Floyd to play that disruptive 1-tech, add in a healthy Jared Allen, and Williams should have a much better season.

That being said if he won't restructure from his 8M base salary I'd have to think long and hard about cutting him loose.


I guess I see that as the point. For a DT to be making $5-8 million per year, they better be good in their own right. Williams simply is not, he needs a good player next to him at this point in his career and I am confident that Fred Evans and Christian Ballard can do a solid job at a drastically cheaper rate.

Bottom line, if this team wants to keep Harvin around, add a premier free agent and keep several other of its own free agents, cutting Williams lose may be a necessity.

I would prefer to add a 1 technique and let Ballard, Evans and Guion fight it out for the UT spot.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evans isn't a good fit for a full time 3-tech IMO. He's much better as a rotational 1-tech.

Ballard started to look good and Guion would have to switch positions. I wouldn't really be comfortable letting Ballard and Guion rotate at the UT.

Just me though.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Evans isn't a good fit for a full time 3-tech IMO. He's much better as a rotational 1-tech.

Ballard started to look good and Guion would have to switch positions. I wouldn't really be comfortable letting Ballard and Guion rotate at the UT.

Just me though.


I actually didnt think Evans looked all that bad to close the year. He got upfield on a number of occasions and did get a couple of sacks.

I have always felt that Guion is a better UT anyway.

If the team can afford to keep Harvin and say add Jennings, at the expense of Kevin Williams, id be all for it.

Ultimately, Harvin wont be traded if the Vikings feel good about the possibility of keeping him and meeting his demands.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Harvin signs a deal til after next season.

Just my .02
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
I don't think Harvin signs a deal til after next season.

Just my .02


That very well could be true. I am just not sure how plausible that it is given that his situation could become volatile like last year. I am of the belief that if Harvin is around, the Vikings are going to have to work hard to keep him happy, especially financially.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see that angle.

However, I expected Loadholt to get signed during the year and that didn't happen. I could see Harvin's agent being in his ear telling him to force the Vikings hand on the franchise tag.

I just wish I knew more about what was going on behind the scenes.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jags arnt moving their 1st round pick.
If K-Will is not willing to take 4million, I would cut him.
He is a good average vet, who is reliable this year, I would feel more comfortable with him reducing his snaps next year and as such I would reduce his salary without question.

Winfield is a different story, he played elite this season. I would love for him to restructure, but if he doesn't I would keep him (at least for the time being thru the draft, unless his salary directly prevented us from signing someone else) - [which it does not at this moment likely]
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ArcticNorseman


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two most important units on a football team are the offensive and defensive lines.

Last year the Vikes shook up the offensive line, and it improved. 2 & 3 years ago, they re-tooled the defensive front, and it's been improving ever since. Last year they tied for the league lead in sacks and this year, they were 5th.

Talent and cohesion cause that chemistry. So, trading Jared Allen and dumping Kevin Williams are two of the most dangerous ideas on this site.

Those two guys will be able to play at All-Pro levels the next 2-3 years . . . Jared moreso than Kevin. The reason why Jared Allen is paramount to the Vikes pass rush is his length and technique . . . those 2 things never dimish with age - speed does - strength may - and of course, injuries may occur.

Oh, and in general . . . people LOVE Jared Allen as a Viking . . . he's a blood-thirsty hunter on more than just the football field. But since he plays the game with that intensity, he needs to stay put.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winfield can't restructure. He's got one year left on his deal. He would have to take a paycut.

In restructures players have to be given the same amount of money. A restructure is having a player take some of his base salary and turn it into a signing bonus that is pro-rated over the course of the contract. Impossible to do that on a one year deal.
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