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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:45 am Post subject: Cowboys "Window" - the age of our core |
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These ages are stolen from xWalker on another board:
32 Romo, Tony
31 Ratliff, Jay
30 Hatcher, Jason
30 Livings, Nate
30 Orton, Kyle
30 Ware, DeMarcus
30 Witten, Jason
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29 Armstrong, Anthony
29 Cook, Ryan
29 Free, Doug
29 Sensabaugh, Gerald
29 Spears, Marcus
29 Vickers, Lawrence
28 Austin, Miles
27 Bernadeau, Mackenzy
27 Connor, Dan
26 Carr, Brandon
26 Lee, Sean
26 Parnell, Jermey
26 Underwood, Brandon
25 Agnew, Vince
25 Albright, Alex
25 Arkin, David
25 Bailey, Dan
25 Brent, Josh
25 Cochart, Colin
25 Harris, Dwayne
25 Lissemore, Sean
25 Satele, Brashton
25 Scandrick, Orlando
25 Simmons, Aderious
25 Stephens, Nick
24 Bryant, Dez
24 Callaway, Rob
24 Carter, Bruce
24 Church, Barry
24 Coale, Danny
24 Dominguez, Ray
24 Kowalski, Kevin
24 Mitchell, Carlton
24 Murray, DeMarco
24 Pellerin, Micah
24 Sheffield, Cameron
24 Smith, Andre
24 Tanner, Phillip
24 Taylor, Monte
24 Weems, Darrion
23 Bass, Ben
23 Beasley, Cole
23 Benford, Tim
23 Crawford, Tyrone
23 Dunbar, Lance
23 Green, Jared
23 Hanna, James
23 Johnson, Matt
23 Jones, Chris
23 Leary, Ronald
23 Moore, Sterling
23 Price, Brian
23 Wilber, Kyle
22 Claiborne, Morris
22 Hughlett, Charley
22 Igbinosun, Ikponmwosa
22 McSurdy, Caleb
22 Smith, Tyron
25 Lemon, Orie
25 Costa, Phil
24 McCray, Danny
29 Schaefering, Brian
To Be continued....
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
Last edited by Matts4313 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Core players:
32 Romo, Tony
30 Ware, DeMarcus
30 Witten, Jason
28 Austin, Miles
26 Carr, Brandon
26 Lee, Sean
25 Bailey, Dan
24 Bryant, Dez
24 Carter, Bruce
24 Murray, DeMarco
22 Claiborne, Morris
22 Smith, Tyron
Average age of our cores is 26 years old
Have shown potential:
25 Harris, Dwayne
25 Lissemore, Sean
25 Scandrick, Orlando
24 Church, Barry
23 Beasley, Cole
23 Crawford, Tyrone
23 Hanna, James
23 Johnson, Matt *(put on here because of draft status)
Average age of our potential next group of staters is 24 years old
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
Last edited by Matts4313 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Core players that have been cut under Garrett:
James - 32
Brooking - 37
Davis - 34
Gurode - 34
Kosier - 34
Owens - 39
Williams (WR) - 31
Newman - 34
Columbo - 34
Barber - 29
Average age 34 years old
^^^^^^^ Cutting these guys and replacing them with the new "Core" that is ~10 years younger is one of the reasons we have been tight against the cap the last couple years.
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
Last edited by Matts4313 on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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textaz03
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 10616
Location: Land of the Jersey Devil!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | | Reserved - If someone has the information on the cap cuts the last two years, that would be swell. |
see my post of Cap carry over for 2013 in Offseason news thread.
Did not realize that Lee was 26 all ready. 
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Dallas Cowboys ($30,378,408-Dead Money; $134,232,826-Adjusted Cap)
The Cowboys are paying for contract mistakes made several years ago. Most notably are the contracts that were signed by Roy Williams and Marion Barber.
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The Cowboys were still able to be a major player in the first wave of free agency despite 22.6% of their adjusted cap being devoted to dead money and their penalty for violating the spirit of unwritten spending rules during the uncapped 2010 season. Brandon Carr received a five-year, $50.1 million deal (including $26.5 million in guarantees). His $3.2 million first year cap number is low for such a lucrative deal. Carr’s cap number jumps to $16.3 million next year which makes him a prime candidate to restructure his contract since the Cowboys will have a $6.5 million cap deficit because of those penalties and approximately $134 million committed towards next year’s cap with only 43 players under contract.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Dead-money-disasters.html |
^^^^ From November
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 22107
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Windows tend to be a reflection of QB play more than anything else. In large part because as the QB goes so does the team. This is a concept more than a hard-fact since I can provide several examples to the contrary.
The thing with Romo, his age is less important than most people tend to place a value on. His Idol played for 8 more years. The greatest QB in our history – who has a similar story to Romo (in the sense that they didn’t become a starter until late in life) played until his late 30’s. So we actually have plenty of time with Romo.
For what it’s worth, it’s part of the reason I would like to see L.P. gone soon. Not because he sucks – he’s great, really. But because I find it to be of greater long term benefit to have Chris Jones, Dan Baliey and some young cat (hoping it’s Hughlett) all practice & play together for 10+ years.
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In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 42602
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | | Quote: | Dallas Cowboys ($30,378,408-Dead Money; $134,232,826-Adjusted Cap)
The Cowboys are paying for contract mistakes made several years ago. Most notably are the contracts that were signed by Roy Williams and Marion Barber.
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The Cowboys were still able to be a major player in the first wave of free agency despite 22.6% of their adjusted cap being devoted to dead money and their penalty for violating the spirit of unwritten spending rules during the uncapped 2010 season. Brandon Carr received a five-year, $50.1 million deal (including $26.5 million in guarantees). His $3.2 million first year cap number is low for such a lucrative deal. Carr’s cap number jumps to $16.3 million next year which makes him a prime candidate to restructure his contract since the Cowboys will have a $6.5 million cap deficit because of those penalties and approximately $134 million committed towards next year’s cap with only 43 players under contract.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Dead-money-disasters.html |
^^^^ From November |
Not sure how accurate that is - the Cowboys have less than $200k in dead money (not counting the $5m penalty)
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thats from last year. It was in regards to the idea that we havent had a lot of cap the last couple years, I was merely pointing out that we had 30M in dead money last year.
BTW - According to ESPN, we also have 2M in dead money this year from Newman. Is that wrong?
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 42602
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | Thats from last year. It was in regards to the idea that we havent had a lot of cap the last couple years, I was merely pointing out that we had 30M in dead money last year.
BTW - According to ESPN, we also have 2M in dead money this year from Newman. Is that wrong? |
Ahh okay
I can't say 100%, but spotrac has all our numbers for 2013 and Newman isn't on there
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GeneralDissaray
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 4933
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | Thats from last year. It was in regards to the idea that we havent had a lot of cap the last couple years, I was merely pointing out that we had 30M in dead money last year.
BTW - According to ESPN, we also have 2M in dead money this year from Newman. Is that wrong? |
Apparently, if you cut someone after June 1st, the cap hit can be split over the next two seasons. Only the current year's bonus is accounted for in that year, and then any remaining accelerated bonus' are accounted for in the following year. I'll use Ratliff as en example, and I hope I'm understanding it correctly.
Normal release;
2013: Salary:5,000,000 + Bonus 2,000,000= 7,000,00mil cap number
2014 and 2015 Bonus = 2mil per year.
7mil cap number - Accelerated Bonus 6mil(2+2+2) = 1mil cap savings
June 1st release:
2013: Salary:5,000,000 + Bonus 2,000,000= 7,000,00mil cap number
7mil cap number - 2013 Bonus of 2mil = 5mil cap savings for 2013
2014 and 2015 Bonus = 2mil per year = 4mil of dead cap money in 2014.
So if the Cowboys brass sells that getting rid of Ratliff frees up 5mil in cap space, they probably won't mention the 4mil of dead money it will cost in 2014.
One other note. I love how all these writers always talk about how much a player is making. There as bad as the players that get a 20mil signing bonus, and their 3rd year salary is 2mil, and they whine about how underpaid they are. Look at the full contract. I really don't understand why players agree to having the final year(s) of their contract being an exorbitant amount like 15mil in salary. I think the agents agree so they can increase their fee, knowing the player will never see that money.
I've also noticed that most of these writers don't understand the difference between what Jerry pays, and what the cap hit is. They don't understand that the current years salary and bonus money have already been accounted. Who cares what Jerry pays. All I care about is the cap savings/cap hit.
IMO, we should only do the June 1st designations, if we feel we are 1 or 2 players away from being a Superbowl contender, or the next year, if we are going to have a ton of cap room. I'd prefer we either keep Ratliff for another year, or cut him before June 1st. |
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8423
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | Windows tend to be a reflection of QB play more than anything else. In large part because as the QB goes so does the team. This is a concept more than a hard-fact since I can provide several examples to the contrary.
The thing with Romo, his age is less important than most people tend to place a value on. His Idol played for 8 more years. The greatest QB in our history – who has a similar story to Romo (in the sense that they didn’t become a starter until late in life) played until his late 30’s. So we actually have plenty of time with Romo.
For what it’s worth, it’s part of the reason I would like to see L.P. gone soon. Not because he sucks – he’s great, really. But because I find it to be of greater long term benefit to have Chris Jones, Dan Baliey and some young cat (hoping it’s Hughlett) all practice & play together for 10+ years. |
I agree with your first point. On Romo, he's not equivalent to Favre or Manning. He doesn't have the pedigree, and he's not quite as tough or durable as Favre (not to say Romo is a wimp). Also, if Favre's career is indication, the best time to move Romo is when he hits 34/35. While Favre did have a couple of decent seasons after 35, he also had some average to poor years.
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 22107
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | Windows tend to be a reflection of QB play more than anything else. In large part because as the QB goes so does the team. This is a concept more than a hard-fact since I can provide several examples to the contrary.
The thing with Romo, his age is less important than most people tend to place a value on. His Idol played for 8 more years. The greatest QB in our history – who has a similar story to Romo (in the sense that they didn’t become a starter until late in life) played until his late 30’s. So we actually have plenty of time with Romo.
For what it’s worth, it’s part of the reason I would like to see L.P. gone soon. Not because he sucks – he’s great, really. But because I find it to be of greater long term benefit to have Chris Jones, Dan Baliey and some young cat (hoping it’s Hughlett) all practice & play together for 10+ years. |
I agree with your first point. On Romo, he's not equivalent to Favre or Manning. He doesn't have the pedigree, and he's not quite as tough or durable as Favre (not to say Romo is a wimp). Also, if Favre's career is indication, the best time to move Romo is when he hits 34/35. While Favre did have a couple of decent seasons after 35, he also had some average to poor years. |
My comments on Romo were in no way a dismissal of finding an heir – in fact I am of the school of thought that you draft a QB each and every year (albeit it doesn’t have to be a high pick each year). I think Romo is our starter for another 4 years. In large part because he started his career so late, much like Captain Comeback did. In no way is this articulating the view that Romo is a HOFer, though. He has talent. And is able to play the position well. But I am not trying to draw comparisons to the elite brass – simply stating it would not surprise me to see him last a while longer at a high level.
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The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
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buckwild
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1449
Location: Ft Worth, Tx
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Matts4313 wrote: | Core players:
32 Romo, Tony
30 Ware, DeMarcus
30 Witten, Jason
28 Austin, Miles
26 Carr, Brandon
26 Lee, Sean
25 Bailey, Dan
24 Bryant, Dez
24 Carter, Bruce
24 Murray, DeMarco
22 Claiborne, Morris
22 Smith, Tyron
Average age of our cores is 26 years old
Have shown potential:
25 Harris, Dwayne
25 Lissemore, Sean
25 Scandrick, Orlando
24 Church, Barry
23 Beasley, Cole
23 Crawford, Tyrone
23 Hanna, James
23 Johnson, Matt *(put on here because of draft status)
Average age of our potential next group of staters is 24 years old |
So where is Gerald Sensabaugh/Doug Free/ Hatcher or Spears/Ratliff?
Those should be considered core players as well, and what has Beasley,Johnson, Hanna or Crawford done besides get drafted.
I agree with the majority of the players you listed, but don't think that the core of the team is actually that young maybe closer to 28. Which is good as that is normally when a player is in his prime. Also Mike Fisher states that its almost a certainty that Spencer will be a Cowboy next year, and that Kiffin thinks with Spencer/Ware athleticism they will be a force.
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Matts4313
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 33895
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| buckwild wrote: | So where is Gerald Sensabaugh/Doug Free/ Hatcher or Spears/Ratliff?
Those should be considered core players as well, and what has Beasley,Johnson, Hanna or Crawford done besides get drafted.
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I didn't include them because all of them have at least a decent chance of being replaced this off season ** With the exception of Hatcher** I missed on that one.
As for the other, those are all 1st year players who have shown some flashes. You are right, the biggest thing they have done is get drafted (or have amazing golden locks). But they made some plays for us, unlike the Wilbers/Coales/Arkins of the team.
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Every win is a mirage, every loss is a disaster, as far as the (Dallas) forum goes. |
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flyingmonkey30
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