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WE'RE SWITCHING TO A 3-4
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truthfully every successful 3-4 Defense has had a very good NT, now whether it was a pass rushing, run stuffing, or a combo NT, that is dependent on the scheme, but a 3-4 NT is the most important position on the field along with the rush OLB, the one that does almost nothing but rush the passer.

Ratliff-Pass Rushing 3-4 NT
Wilfork-Run stuffing 3-4 NT
BJ Raji-Combo NT

So with the #15 pick unless a guy like Jarvis Jones falls to us, if Hankins is there we need to draft him. I think he would be more of a Run Stuffing/Combo NT and would fit in very well as it lets our ILBs roam free more and will give Hicks and Jordan easier match-ups now with only 3 DL compared to 4 previously.

Now if Hankins isn't there there isn't a better move than trading back about 5-10 picks and picking Ogletree to play ILB along with Lofton. Hawthorne is good for the position but has had injury issues and playing where he's going to be facing oncoming guards more often won't help that. Drafting Ogletree at #20-25 and then looking to get a big body a little later in the draft.

But we have more pieces for a 3-4 defense with Wilson and Galette as the two OLBs being great pass rushers in that scheme than we did for a 4-3. Before we needed a more traditional 4-3 DE that might've been Galette or Wilson but might not be, plus at least 1 if not 2 OLBs, to now having two very talented players that fit the 3-4 OLB position, 3 guys that fit ILB, don't forget about Chamberlain, 2 guys that fit DE perfectly, and just needing a NT.
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potus


Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
First and foremost, WELCOME BACK Whodats! Feels good doesn't it?

Shocked and mixed about this. I did speak up for Spags, not going to lie. But I have always wanted a 3-4, so if this is the way for us to switch, then so be it. I'm sure the ends will justify the means.

The most exciting part about all of this means that our draft has opened up. I have NO idea what we are going to target in the draft.

Also, I trust that Loomis and Payton have the blueprints for this transistion. this most definitely isn't a spur of the moment firing...You can bet your fluer-de-lis that they have someone in mind. Possibly someone huge. Wouldn't be surprised if this is only half the shocker here.


Ya know what else there 101... Switching to the 34 from the 43 does take time and resources. The Saints won't have much money so will rely on draft picks. Doing this when you know you dont have a 2nd rounder to me is odd. Now I know Payton has said that their were no discussions with the commish about that pick but I am seriously starting to believe that at some point it was agreed that, that pick will be restored to us.


Might not be the case. I remember when the Packers switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4 in 2009, one of their fans wrote this HUGE writeup of the history of teams switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 over the last decade. In almost all cases the defense actually improved substantially. I'll have to look for the article it was very well researched and written. If I remember correctly, the two biggest reasons being the teams believed they had the personal to run it along with lack of game footage for opposing teams to game plan the defense.

Being the huge fan of Bunkley that I am, he played 3-4 NT last year for the Broncos and played it very well. I remember how upset Bronco fans were when they lost him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH8xSzhZpqw
1st half is Bunkley highlights as a NT going up against Nick Mangold; not bad if you ask me.

I'm with a lot of other people here, Dion Jordon would be Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Truthfully every successful 3-4 Defense has had a very good NT, now whether it was a pass rushing, run stuffing, or a combo NT, that is dependent on the scheme, but a 3-4 NT is the most important position on the field along with the rush OLB, the one that does almost nothing but rush the passer.

Ratliff-Pass Rushing 3-4 NT
Wilfork-Run stuffing 3-4 NT
BJ Raji-Combo NT

So with the #15 pick unless a guy like Jarvis Jones falls to us, if Hankins is there we need to draft him. I think he would be more of a Run Stuffing/Combo NT and would fit in very well as it lets our ILBs roam free more and will give Hicks and Jordan easier match-ups now with only 3 DL compared to 4 previously.

Now if Hankins isn't there there isn't a better move than trading back about 5-10 picks and picking Ogletree to play ILB along with Lofton. Hawthorne is good for the position but has had injury issues and playing where he's going to be facing oncoming guards more often won't help that. Drafting Ogletree at #20-25 and then looking to get a big body a little later in the draft.

But we have more pieces for a 3-4 defense with Wilson and Galette as the two OLBs being great pass rushers in that scheme than we did for a 4-3. Before we needed a more traditional 4-3 DE that might've been Galette or Wilson but might not be, plus at least 1 if not 2 OLBs, to now having two very talented players that fit the 3-4 OLB position, 3 guys that fit ILB, don't forget about Chamberlain, 2 guys that fit DE perfectly, and just needing a NT.

That's just not true, in today's NFL a premier edge rusher is way more important than a NT. You can find NTs late, you just need a huge body.
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Truthfully every successful 3-4 Defense has had a very good NT, now whether it was a pass rushing, run stuffing, or a combo NT, that is dependent on the scheme, but a 3-4 NT is the most important position on the field along with the rush OLB, the one that does almost nothing but rush the passer.

Ratliff-Pass Rushing 3-4 NT
Wilfork-Run stuffing 3-4 NT
BJ Raji-Combo NT

So with the #15 pick unless a guy like Jarvis Jones falls to us, if Hankins is there we need to draft him. I think he would be more of a Run Stuffing/Combo NT and would fit in very well as it lets our ILBs roam free more and will give Hicks and Jordan easier match-ups now with only 3 DL compared to 4 previously.

Now if Hankins isn't there there isn't a better move than trading back about 5-10 picks and picking Ogletree to play ILB along with Lofton. Hawthorne is good for the position but has had injury issues and playing where he's going to be facing oncoming guards more often won't help that. Drafting Ogletree at #20-25 and then looking to get a big body a little later in the draft.

But we have more pieces for a 3-4 defense with Wilson and Galette as the two OLBs being great pass rushers in that scheme than we did for a 4-3. Before we needed a more traditional 4-3 DE that might've been Galette or Wilson but might not be, plus at least 1 if not 2 OLBs, to now having two very talented players that fit the 3-4 OLB position, 3 guys that fit ILB, don't forget about Chamberlain, 2 guys that fit DE perfectly, and just needing a NT.

That's just not true, in today's NFL a premier edge rusher is way more important than a NT. You can find NTs late, you just need a huge body.


I agree with Harp; it's a lot easier to find a fat guy than a freakishly athletic pass rusher.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with Harp; it's a lot easier to find a fat guy than a freakishly athletic pass rusher


Honestly guys it really depends on what kind of 34 scheme we run. There are different types, In Pittsburgh's or Green Bays for example we would need a guy like Hankins to play the interior NT role. The big body will be needed but in a scheme like the 49ers or Texans they rely more on athletic ability up front and you can get away with NT's like Bunkley or say Rickey Jean Francios who is set to become a FA.

I think in the end the Saints personnel best fits what the Niners are doing...
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question...where does this leave Roman Harper? I mean, what do we do with him?
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SWATcha


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
Question...where does this leave Roman Harper? I mean, what do we do with him?


Pack his bags for him? Laughing
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This move instantly improves the defense. Maybe the bounty garbage helped Payton see things more objectively. Great move.

I hope that the Saints bring in a DC that plays more man on man in the secondary because out CBs are clueless in zone. Jenkins needs to go back to CB. IAQ or upgrade at FS. I don't know what to do about SS. would probably depend on Harpers salary cap numbers. Elam would be a dream though.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Harper restructures I could see him moving to ILB as a role player. He's a good pass rusher from the inside and a great tackler, this all depends on him being willing to take a sizable pay cut though
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
If Harper restructures I could see him moving to ILB as a role player. He's a good pass rusher from the inside and a great tackler, this all depends on him being willing to take a sizable pay cut though


This is how I see some of the defensive players panning out...

Vilma: Gone
Smith: Gone
Ellis: Gone
Harper: Gone (unless he takes a major pay cut)
Jenkins: Likely to stay but could be dangled as trade bait
Bunkley: Gone, unless the new DC feels he can be a NT in his scheme
Greer: Restructured and stays but as the Nickel
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly do not see the hype surrounding Mingo. He is small but he is extremely fast. I do not like the way he tackles.
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tbperk


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the LeBeau/Phillips (Pittsburg - Houston) style from an excitement and game watching aspect. I just prefer an attacking style to the "bend don't break" Parcells/Belichick defense.

3-4 DC's with experience:
Romeo Crennel
Eric Mangini

3-4 position coaches that are going to get a shot a DC soon (IMO)

Kevin Greene - GB LB coach
Darren Perry - GB DB coach
Bill Kollar - Texans DL coach
Reggie Herring - Texans LB coach
Mike Singletary - Vickings LB coach
Pepper Johnson - NE LB coach
Keith Butler - Steelers LB coach
Ted Monachino - Ravens LB coach
Teryl Austin - Ravens DB coach
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packers asst. HC Winston Moss... Very bright coach with connections to the Saints.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
I honestly do not see the hype surrounding Mingo. He is small but he is extremely fast. I do not like the way he tackles.


Mingo playing in a 34 as a rush edge linebacker would be completely different.

Sam Montgomery might also be a good fit as a SAM in a 34.

Dion Jordan is special but he has a torn Laburm right now.

Okafor is another that could be a 34 standup backer.

I just think that with the depth of this defensive line class the Saints will first look to solidify up front and add depth behind Galette and Wilson in the later rounds.
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know the more I think about it I think that Bunkley is our guy at NT. Go watch some film on him with Denver... dude was nicknamed the destroyer. He lines up over center and just wrecks. Hicks next to him is going to beast...great first step and hands. Cam sealing the edge too is important. That should funnel everything to the inside.... This makes me really think that our #1 position of need is an inside LB next to Lofton. I think junior and martez are right where they need to be. Either we address ilb in fa or the draft. Truth be told I don't know who is a FA this year that we could nab for ILB. I just don't think hawthorne is our guy.
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