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eddie mac


Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 6179
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
#28 and Dumervil for Revis would be awesome.

I don't see it happening though. Everything indicates that the Jets want to improve their salary situation. Trading for Dumervil wouldn't make any sense for the Jets, IMO.


It actually makes plenty of sense for the Jets because the remainder of Doom's contract is just paper money. Basically no guaranteed money left.

For me it doesn't make sense from a Broncos viewpoint because there is no-one near capable enough to replace Doom's level of production on the team, in FA (Freeney/Osi = done) or at that late 2nd rd spot or lower.

So by acquiring Revis in this way you're basically robbing Peter to pay Paul as they say.

Dumb trade.

If the Broncos want to pay Doom what he's really worth just sit down a negotiate a new deal.

If the Broncos feel that they dont rate Carter enough to play outside go after a FA CB, he may not be as good as Revis but then again neither will his contract.
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eddie mac


Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
The Jets cap situation wont let them take on Dooms contract. He would have to restructure or we would have to take on one of their terrible contracts.


They're well under the cap now by all accounts, cleared over $30m with all those moves last/this week.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eddie mac wrote:
germ-x wrote:
#28 and Dumervil for Revis would be awesome.

I don't see it happening though. Everything indicates that the Jets want to improve their salary situation. Trading for Dumervil wouldn't make any sense for the Jets, IMO.


It actually makes plenty of sense for the Jets because the remainder of Doom's contract is just paper money. Basically no guaranteed money left.

For me it doesn't make sense from a Broncos viewpoint because there is no-one near capable enough to replace Doom's level of production on the team, in FA (Freeney/Osi = done) or at that late 2nd rd spot or lower.

So by acquiring Revis in this way you're basically robbing Peter to pay Paul as they say.

Dumb trade.

If the Broncos want to pay Doom what he's really worth just sit down a negotiate a new deal.

If the Broncos feel that they dont rate Carter enough to play outside go after a FA CB, he may not be as good as Revis but then again neither will his contract.


That's good news if Dumervil's contract isn't much of an obstacle because it will make him an option to move, whether to the Jets or someone else.

Trading #28 and Dumervil for Revis would be a huge win for Denver and their defense.

1. Obviously Revis is an upgrade and if he returns to his form prior to the injury, Denver will have a one of the best CB's in the game for the next 4-6 years.

2. Elvis Dumervil is easily replaceable, honestly, Denver wouldn't suffer much of a drop off in RE production if they just replaced Dumervil with Ayers/Hunter. Denver's defense might actually be better.
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They should throw in Knowshon into that trade with Dumerville....and pull the trigger and make that happen. Welcome to Denver Revis.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some thoughts on the Revis trade and its potential obstacles.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pat-kirwan/21791586/why-a-trade-for-darrelle-revis-will-be-difficult-to-pull-off
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoinGermany wrote:
Some thoughts on the Revis trade and its potential obstacles.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pat-kirwan/21791586/why-a-trade-for-darrelle-revis-will-be-difficult-to-pull-off


Kirwan's last point in that article is so ignorant about the competition. Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith being your starting corners is usually not a good thing. I wouldn't even say they played incredibly well on the whole on the way to winning a SB, so that's kind of a stupid thing to say.

The health is what worries me most, like in any situation with a guy coming off injury.
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copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
Some thoughts on the Revis trade and its potential obstacles.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pat-kirwan/21791586/why-a-trade-for-darrelle-revis-will-be-difficult-to-pull-off


Kirwan's last point in that article is so ignorant about the competition. Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith being your starting corners is usually not a good thing. I wouldn't even say they played incredibly well on the whole on the way to winning a SB, so that's kind of a stupid thing to say.

The health is what worries me most, like in any situation with a guy coming off injury.


I don't interpret his last point the same way you do. To me he is simpley making the point that the Raven's didn't need Revis, nor his huge contract, to win the Superbowl. A good point to make. Perhaps the title of that point is a little misleading.
Anyway, all of Kirwan's points are valid IMO. But to me, it comes down to the compansation to make the trade. I don't think the Broncos will be willing to give up what it would take to satisfy the Jets. That price will be too high for Elway to pull the triger IMO.
If I'm wrong, it sure wouldn't be the first time.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

latest Jets blog. 49ers and Falcons are mentioned.

http://thejetsblog.com/nyjets/buzz-there-are-a-few-legitimate-teams-interested-in-revis/
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Winder23


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
eddie mac wrote:
germ-x wrote:
#28 and Dumervil for Revis would be awesome.

I don't see it happening though. Everything indicates that the Jets want to improve their salary situation. Trading for Dumervil wouldn't make any sense for the Jets, IMO.


It actually makes plenty of sense for the Jets because the remainder of Doom's contract is just paper money. Basically no guaranteed money left.

For me it doesn't make sense from a Broncos viewpoint because there is no-one near capable enough to replace Doom's level of production on the team, in FA (Freeney/Osi = done) or at that late 2nd rd spot or lower.

So by acquiring Revis in this way you're basically robbing Peter to pay Paul as they say.

Dumb trade.

If the Broncos want to pay Doom what he's really worth just sit down a negotiate a new deal.

If the Broncos feel that they dont rate Carter enough to play outside go after a FA CB, he may not be as good as Revis but then again neither will his contract.


That's good news if Dumervil's contract isn't much of an obstacle because it will make him an option to move, whether to the Jets or someone else.

Trading #28 and Dumervil for Revis would be a huge win for Denver and their defense.

1. Obviously Revis is an upgrade and if he returns to his form prior to the injury, Denver will have a one of the best CB's in the game for the next 4-6 years.

2. Elvis Dumervil is easily replaceable, honestly, Denver wouldn't suffer much of a drop off in RE production if they just replaced Dumervil with Ayers/Hunter. Denver's defense might actually be better.
Denver would have to sign Revis to a huge contract after this season. That is of course if he wants to stay. He won't stay here unless we offer him max contract.

Why trade a pass rusher for a CB. Everyone acts like Doom is some awful player. Is he worth the money he is getting? No. Would he be willing to renegotiate? I think so.

It doesn't make sense to trade a known commodity in Doom and a future commodity with #28 overall for a CB coming off of ACL surgery who is most interested in max dollars. No thanks!!!
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PGeorge2


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if he will be Bronco, but Revis will most certainly not be a Jet come draft day. The 49ers are not even in the running. The only other team I've heard mentioned is the Falcons. And people are just saying that because they traded a lot for JJ, now the thinking is that's the norm for the Falcons organization.

I have no clue if we'll be players. And I still haven't decided if I would like it if we were. But Revis will be traded before the draft. And I'd be surprised if the compensation is huge because at this point there doesn't seem to be a lot of teams interested for numerous reasons. The compensation, cost of re-signing him long term and the injury are adding up to a lot of teams not being interested.

Even with all that, I think the Jets are desperate to deal him. They shouldn't have said they're shopping him if they wanted to play hard ball on compensation. If they don't trade, he'll walk and they get nothing. And I think they want draft picks for this draft, not next years. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me to see him traded for a 2nd this year and a compensatory pick next year. The Jets are between a rock and a hard place.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGeorge2 wrote:
The compensation, cost of re-signing him long term and the injury are adding up to a lot of teams not being interested.



I think the injury is the real deal killer here. It's one thing if he's coming off another All-Pro year. Entirely another coming off knee surgery.

Will he ever be the same? Maybe, probably about 50/50 there. Chances are higher though that he returns as an above avg./very good CB and never quite regains his previous domination.

Would you really want to spend a couple of draft picks and $15+mil per year on him then?
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this situation, personally. Just because I love how its playing in my head. I really wont be upset if we don't get him, I like having a first round pick, I like that we have a ton of cap room. If we do get him, I'd be happy with that too, he's worth the first, and he's worth the cap space he would take up.

No matter what happens, I'm not going to be hurt by this, so I'm going to sit back and enjoy it. I do think we're in on in it.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winder23 wrote:
Denver would have to sign Revis to a huge contract after this season. That is of course if he wants to stay. He won't stay here unless we offer him max contract.

We wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade without first having reached a "handshake" agreement for a long-term contract extension with Revis and his agent. Same as when Shanahan traded for Champ.

Winder23 wrote:
Why trade a pass rusher for a CB. Everyone acts like Doom is some awful player. Is he worth the money he is getting? No. Would he be willing to renegotiate? I think so.

Yeah I have no idea where the "trade Doom" crap has come from. I know some nimrods Denver talk radio (the same who think we should draft Matt Barkley in the 2nd round this year) have floated the idea but there is absolutely no way that's happening. Doom leaves of Fox and Del Rio's dead bodies. I'm not going to argue with people about whether Doom is a good player or not, but I do know how Fox, Del Rio and Elway feel about him and he's not going anywhere.

Winder23 wrote:
It doesn't make sense to trade a known commodity in Doom and a future commodity with #28 overall for a CB coming off of ACL surgery who is most interested in max dollars. No thanks!!!

Over the course of his career, Revis has never been paid like the elite player he is. I don't blame him one bit for wanting to cash in his and make his true value while he's in his prime.

AKRNA wrote:
I think the injury is the real deal killer here. It's one thing if he's coming off another All-Pro year. Entirely another coming off knee surgery.

Will he ever be the same? Maybe, probably about 50/50 there. Chances are higher though that he returns as an above avg./very good CB and never quite regains his previous domination.

Would you really want to spend a couple of draft picks and $15+mil per year on him then?

We really do not know the severity of his injury or how well his rehab is going. The reports are that "it's going very well" "better than expected" and he is "ahead of schedule" but what else is his agent going to leak to the media?

But the situation is not dissimilar from Peyton's last year; it's a risk but a measured one. It's actually, IMO, a safer bet as Revis is younger and there is a lot more medical knowledge of treatments and recovery from knee injuries than there is neurological ailments.

I understand the concern but just like we had to deal with the "Peyton is one hit away from the end of his career and it's stupid to spend $20m on him, we should keep Tebow" BS last year, we will have to tolerate the same if and when we trade for Revis until he proves himself to still be an elite player on the field.

elliot878 wrote:
I love this situation, personally. Just because I love how its playing in my head. I really wont be upset if we don't get him, I like having a first round pick, I like that we have a ton of cap room. If we do get him, I'd be happy with that too, he's worth the first, and he's worth the cap space he would take up.

No matter what happens, I'm not going to be hurt by this, so I'm going to sit back and enjoy it. I do think we're in on in it.

I agree with every word of this post.

I can't say I won't be disappointed if we don't get him until after he is traded. If the Jets trade him for the amount or for less than the amount I'd be willing to pay (#28 and a 2014 2nd or 3rd) and we end up taking a Derek Wolfe-like player at #28 I will be disappointed as Revis would help us A LOT more. Even worse, if we take Te'o at #28 and Revis goes to the Chiefs for cheap I will have about the same level of disgust with Elway as I had with Mac. [/list]
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

Winder23 wrote:
Why trade a pass rusher for a CB. Everyone acts like Doom is some awful player. Is he worth the money he is getting? No. Would he be willing to renegotiate? I think so.

Yeah I have no idea where the "trade Doom" crap has come from. I know some nimrods Denver talk radio (the same who think we should draft Matt Barkley in the 2nd round this year) have floated the idea but there is absolutely no way that's happening. Doom leaves of Fox and Del Rio's dead bodies. I'm not going to argue with people about whether Doom is a good player or not, but I do know how Fox, Del Rio and Elway feel about him and he's not going anywhere.

They're currently trying to make him restructure and have until 17th to cut him before the money is guarenteed so if he wont restructure and yu can trade him it makes sense.

Though I guess 49ers arent happy w/ Jets using them as a form of leverage. Laughing
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

But the situation is not dissimilar from Peyton's last year; it's a risk but a measured one. It's actually, IMO, a safer bet as Revis is younger and there is a lot more medical knowledge of treatments and recovery from knee injuries than there is neurological ailments.

I understand the concern but just like we had to deal with the "Peyton is one hit away from the end of his career and it's stupid to spend $20m on him, we should keep Tebow" BS last year, we will have to tolerate the same if and when we trade for Revis until he proves himself to still be an elite player on the field.



It's this where we disagree AAA. I see the two situations as quite dissimilar.
With PM, our risk was basically a one year contract for $20mil. If he couldn't perform at a certain level we could opt out. Fairly small risk for the potential reward.

For Revis, not so. Our risk would be probably one or twp premium draft picks along with a contract probably in the $90mil range with about $60 guaranteed.

If PM failed, there's no dead money, he's off the books and no compensation given.

If Revis doesn't perform, we're out potentially two premium draft picks and a huge amount of "dead" money on the books.

You can't compare those two.

Do you think we would have pulled the trigger on PM if we would have had to give up a 1st and 2nd and give him a 5 year $100mil contract with $60+ guaranteed? Not likely.
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