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Shaun King: "Bucs are Just wasting Time"
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Shaun King: "Bucs are Just wasting Time" Reply with quote

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In his most scathing indictment to date of the current Bucs brass, former Bucs quarterback and current NBC Sports Network analyst Shaun King says “the Bucs are just wasting time” because of the lack of skills and smarts of Greg Schiano and rockstar general manager Mark Dominik.

One of only three QBs to lead the Bucs to the NFC Championship game, King says the firing of defensive backs coach Ron Cooper and defensive line coach Randy Melvin, is further evidence of the ineptitude of the regime.

“Who does that after the first year if you hire correctly?” King asked rhetorically on WDAE-AM 620 today. “But the problem becomes the elite teachers in the National Football League aren’t going to come here.”

King repeated his takes that he didn’t like the Schiano hire, and that Dominik “is not good at his job,” and he said it’s a red flag that Schiano, a defensive guy, used a defense that needs an overhaul. “Those schemes and those philosophies they’re using on defense are flawed,” King said.

King, a St. Pete native, went on to express his deep, lifelong love for the Buccaneers and belief that Mike Sullivan will move on in the near future as a hot head coaching candidate, therefore the Bucs are “spinning their wheels.” (The entire audio can be accessed below.)


Listen audio here.
http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=82002

My take: Shaun King may not have been the most successful QB, but he usually has some good analysis and really knows his stuff. He called our collapse in 2011 because of the lack of quality practices during Training Camp and during the season and failure to improve upon 2010 and predicted 2-4 wins.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm on board with his analysis on Greg Schiano 100%. I for one, think Schiano can be a great NFL Head Coach in the league. But I do question his scheme defensively. Why do we run so many stunts and twists? Why did Gerlad McCoy, more than once, have to approach the staff to say, "cut the twists/stunts out, and let us rush the pass"? Why did we blitz in probably the worst situations when we should have been playing more coverage?

Those are things that I question.

Dominik? I'll say this: He's added better players than Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden ever did. But I question a lot of his decision making.

2009: Michael Clayton and Derrick Ward? Free Agent busts. Big time and they both recieved lucrative money.

2010: Nothing was done in FA with all that cap space. Missed on both 2nd round picks and 3rd round pick.

2011: Again, no improvement and our best moves in FA was for a Punter for 3.25 mil a year and overpaying for a medicore LB who had a solid year for 6.25 mil a year.

2012 was a beautiful offseason. LOVED IT. But after all the picks invested in the DLINE, we're still bottom of the league in sacks. Still have a horrendous defense and secondary.

And 4 years into the rebuilding process, we're still nothing more than medicore.

So, sure, I guess, as a die hard bucs fan, I cannot stand watching us be medicore. After listening to King, he made great points. Assistant coaches, quality assistant coaches, do not want to come to Tampa. And I believe that.

I for one, am not a fan of the QBs and WRs coach hires. McNulty was a good addition, but he's been a well respected WRs coach in Arizona and was building a quality resume as a future OC. Taking over teh QBs coach job all but got him canned and hurt his chances because Arizona was awful. So what do we do? Hire McNulty, a guy who's been a successful WRs coach, no experience coaching the QB position, and field misserably after 1 year at that job, as the QBs coach.

Then, we go ahead and Hire Jason Garrett's brother, as our WR/TE coach? A guy who many say had a poor relationship with his players in Dallas, which led to his departure?

I understand Schiano's situation last off-season. He was put in a terrible position to find quality assistants. And that is the Glazers and Dominik's wrong doing. Their search took over a month. Even if Chip Kelly was hired, he would have had slim pickings as well.

I'm hoping this organization is going in the right direction. This year is definately make or break. [/quote]
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well..that was depressing.

I'm one of the fans who think that Dominik in particular is a pretty poor GM. Overall, I'd say his negative moves outweigh his positives, except for his work with the cap and salary management. He's a wizard there. That being said, I disagree on Schiano. He seems like he'll be a great coach for us.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So McNulty failed miserably as a QB coach in Arizona because Kolb got hurt (which happens often throughout his career). The tackle play was horrendous, and he couldn't make John Skelton (5th round draft choice) and Ryan Lindley (6th round draft choice) effective behind a brutually ineffective o-line. Wow, I think I may need just a tad bit more of a sample to make that leap he is a failure.

The rumors of Garrett maybe true, not sure. However, misleading information could never come out of Valley Ranch right? Nah, not Jerry.

If the Bucs don't make the playoffs next year, I would assume Dom would be replaced.

I'm a firm believer everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Shawn King. However, Shawn King is also on record stating he could fix Josh Freeman if he was his QB coach. My question is why hasn't he been hired in Divsion I or the pros if he has great coaching prowess and talent. Is he waiting for the perfect opportunity? Possibly. Or is he just another former player like Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, or Boomer Esiason with an opinion who is in the media.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
So McNulty failed miserably as a QB coach in Arizona because Kolb got hurt (which happens often throughout his career). The tackle play was horrendous, and he couldn't make John Skelton (5th round draft choice) and Ryan Lindley (6th round draft choice) effective behind a brutually ineffective o-line. Wow, I think I may need just a tad bit more of a sample to make that leap he is a failure.

The rumors of Garrett maybe true, not sure. However, misleading information could never come out of Valley Ranch right? Nah, not Jerry.

If the Bucs don't make the playoffs next year, I would assume Dom would be replaced.

I'm a firm believer everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Shawn King. However, Shawn King is also on record stating he could fix Josh Freeman if he was his QB coach. My question is why hasn't he been hired in Divsion I or the pros if he has great coaching prowess and talent. Is he waiting for the perfect opportunity? Possibly. Or is he just another former player like Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, or Boomer Esiason with an opinion who is in the media.


In most of these former players who were'nt "Successful players defense", just because their skill wasn't elite, doesn't mean their knowledge of the game isn't their.

Mike Mayock might be one of the best and most accurate draft analysit out their. But I can't remember him as the most successful defensive back to play in the nfl. But he knows his crap.

And based on your analysis: Not to provoke you or anything, but I hear too much buc fan talk of "we're in the right direction". I just try to avoid the homerism talk. Is it just a coincidence that no WR behind Dez and Miles really stepped up? Or how Martellus Bennett was awful in Dallas, yet in NYG, he looked like a top 10 TE in the NFL?

I'm not questioning the decision in hiring Schiano. That is where I disagree with King. I'm more guessing the personnel decisions. As much most say Dominik has all the final say in adding players through the draft, I think Schiano played a huge part in the
additions to Barron, Martin, and David selections through the draft.


EDIT: And to answer your statement: McNulty may have had a bad year coaching QBs because of the talent, but why hire a guy who's success is coaching WRs and no experience what so ever with QBs, to coach a QB who needs to improve?
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
So McNulty failed miserably as a QB coach in Arizona because Kolb got hurt (which happens often throughout his career). The tackle play was horrendous, and he couldn't make John Skelton (5th round draft choice) and Ryan Lindley (6th round draft choice) effective behind a brutually ineffective o-line. Wow, I think I may need just a tad bit more of a sample to make that leap he is a failure.

The rumors of Garrett maybe true, not sure. However, misleading information could never come out of Valley Ranch right? Nah, not Jerry.

If the Bucs don't make the playoffs next year, I would assume Dom would be replaced.

I'm a firm believer everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Shawn King. However, Shawn King is also on record stating he could fix Josh Freeman if he was his QB coach. My question is why hasn't he been hired in Divsion I or the pros if he has great coaching prowess and talent. Is he waiting for the perfect opportunity? Possibly. Or is he just another former player like Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, or Boomer Esiason with an opinion who is in the media.


In most of these former players who were'nt "Successful players defense", just because their skill wasn't elite, doesn't mean their knowledge of the game isn't their.

Mike Mayock might be one of the best and most accurate draft analysit out their. But I can't remember him as the most successful defensive back to play in the nfl. But he knows his crap.

And based on your analysis: Not to provoke you or anything, but I hear too much buc fan talk of "we're in the right direction". I just try to avoid the homerism talk. Is it just a coincidence that no WR behind Dez and Miles really stepped up? Or how Martellus Bennett was awful in Dallas, yet in NYG, he looked like a top 10 TE in the NFL?

I'm not questioning the decision in hiring Schiano. That is where I disagree with King. I'm more guessing the personnel decisions. As much most say Dominik has all the final say in adding players through the draft, I think Schiano played a huge part in the
additions to Barron, Martin, and David selections through the draft.


EDIT: And to answer your statement: McNulty may have had a bad year coaching QBs because of the talent, but why hire a guy who's success is coaching WRs and no experience what so ever with QBs, to coach a QB who needs to improve?


I bolded my original post about Dom because I agree it's a result driven league. As far as McNulty, I do believe he was Coach Schiano's OC at Rutgers for 3 years. My assumption is Coach Schiano believes McNulty has plenty of experience dealing with QBs. And like most coachs, Schiano will surround himself with coaches he has extensively worked with in the past.

My main criticism of the Shawn King rant is that he is implying assistant coaches don't get fired after one season. It is certainly not unprecedented because as I have bolded earlier, it is a result driven league. I do believe Monte fired Jethro Franklin after one season as a d-line coach. Not to mention, as we know Coach Schiano was hired on January 26, 2012, which made filling out a staff very difficult because the pool of coaches was severely limited. He kind of forget to mention that nugget. So Cooper was a failure, but what about Fleck, Bostad, Fraser and Byner. Sully is a rising star. Sheridan has been average. Cox not sure about. Melvin questionable. Ligashesky some parts of special teams good (Barth, punt blocks), return kickoff and punt crappy.

Basically, King doesn't like Coach Schiano, which certainly is his right. Time will tell if he is right. Personally, I'm 100 % behind Coach Schiano.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is: McNulty had no experience as a QBs coach. Fleck, Bostad, both were WRs/OC and OL coach, successfully.

McNulty has NEVER had any experience at the QB position. Heck the Panthers hired Ken Dorsey as their QBs coach. That was a smarter move, IMO, because he's been very highly thought of as a smart guy who's played the position. He didn't have the surperior physical tools to play in this league, but not all succeful coaches did either (jon Gruden rings a bell).

I just thought they'd go with someone who has QB background and went with McNulty at WRs.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Lifelong love for the Buccaneers"... more like lifelong love for the fast food joints! Damn Shaun lay off the junk food bro!



At the end of the interview sounds like he would also like to get his hands on the Pats organization. "This is a flawed Patriots team"... scrub sounds like the average couch qb that thinks they can tear it up if they were running things. Rolling Eyes

"Shouldn't have had to trade up for Martin, Mark screwed up the Ward signing". Ya that was a screw up but how many draft picks did that cost us? How much money did we lose?

Pick any GM in the league and a questionable signing or draft pick can be called out. I am 100% behind both Mark and Greg.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
"Lifelong love for the Buccaneers"... more like lifelong love for the fast food joints! Damn Shaun lay off the junk food bro!



At the end of the interview sounds like he would also like to get his hands on the Pats organization. "This is a flawed Patriots team"... scrub sounds like the average couch qb that thinks they can tear it up if they were running things. Rolling Eyes

"Shouldn't have had to trade up for Martin, Mark screwed up the Ward signing". Ya that was a screw up but how many draft picks did that cost us? How much money did we lose?

Pick any GM in the league and a questionable signing or draft pick can be called out. I am 100% behind both Mark and Greg.


You're right. Every GM takes a risk or has made a bad signing. However, it's all about wins. Are they making more good moves than bad? How is their drafting and are they building the team and adding guys who can contribute?

In 4 years under Dom, we are :

2009- 3-13
2010: 10-6
2011: 4-12
2012: 7-9
2013: ???

It's all about wins. This will be Dom's 5th offseason as GM. If we don;t get to the playoffs next year, Dom will be gone and so will Freeman, his QB whom he drafted as part of the Raheem Regime.

Their shouldn't be this many question marks if we're heading down the right path.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark started with complete trash!!!

The season before Mark took over in 2008:

Joey Galloway - 37 years old
Ike Hillard - Last season he ever played in the NFL
Arron Sears - Last season he ever played in the NFL
Alex Smith - Has a whopping total of 31 catches since then
Jeff Garcia - 38 years old and never started another game
Kevin Carter - 35 years old and never played another snap
Cato June - Never started another game after the season
Jermaine Phillips - Played two more games the next season and then his NFL career was over
Josh Bidwell - Had a whopping total of 15 more punts after the 2008 season

This pile of scrubs where from the starting line, imagine what our bench guys looked like! Dexter Jackson anyone, maybe Chris Simms, Brian Griese... nobody, oh I got it Sabby Piscitelli!

Mark started with a bag of chips and that bag was EMPTY. Would you rather we be the Browns, Bills, Phins, Jags, Raiders, Panthers, Cowboys, Rams, Titans, Chiefs, Lions, Cards, Jets? Teams that are in cap hell or have been spinning their wheels for years and years. Our roster/team is obviously headed in the right direction or at least it seems obvious to me. We have money to make moves, we have a very, very young roster with a ton of players with potential. Ya ya potential is a fancy word for having done squat, but I will take where we are now from where we came from to where a large chunk of teams currently are in the league right now!
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5nick5


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
So McNulty failed miserably as a QB coach in Arizona because Kolb got hurt (which happens often throughout his career). The tackle play was horrendous, and he couldn't make John Skelton (5th round draft choice) and Ryan Lindley (6th round draft choice) effective behind a brutually ineffective o-line. Wow, I think I may need just a tad bit more of a sample to make that leap he is a failure.

The rumors of Garrett maybe true, not sure. However, misleading information could never come out of Valley Ranch right? Nah, not Jerry.

If the Bucs don't make the playoffs next year, I would assume Dom would be replaced.

I'm a firm believer everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Shawn King. However, Shawn King is also on record stating he could fix Josh Freeman if he was his QB coach. My question is why hasn't he been hired in Divsion I or the pros if he has great coaching prowess and talent. Is he waiting for the perfect opportunity? Possibly. Or is he just another former player like Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, or Boomer Esiason with an opinion who is in the media.


In most of these former players who were'nt "Successful players defense", just because their skill wasn't elite, doesn't mean their knowledge of the game isn't their.

Mike Mayock might be one of the best and most accurate draft analysit out their. But I can't remember him as the most successful defensive back to play in the nfl. But he knows his crap.

And based on your analysis: Not to provoke you or anything, but I hear too much buc fan talk of "we're in the right direction". I just try to avoid the homerism talk. Is it just a coincidence that no WR behind Dez and Miles really stepped up? Or how Martellus Bennett was awful in Dallas, yet in NYG, he looked like a top 10 TE in the NFL?

I'm not questioning the decision in hiring Schiano. That is where I disagree with King. I'm more guessing the personnel decisions. As much most say Dominik has all the final say in adding players through the draft, I think Schiano played a huge part in the
additions to Barron, Martin, and David selections through the draft.


EDIT: And to answer your statement: McNulty may have had a bad year coaching QBs because of the talent, but why hire a guy who's success is coaching WRs and no experience what so ever with QBs, to coach a QB who needs to improve?


McNulty made Kolb look like a legitimate starting QB behind one the worst O-lines in the NFL and only one legitimate receiving target. How many wins do you think you'd get with Skelton or Lindley?

As for Garrett, we've heard mixed stories about him. But to say nobody's stepped up. First off, Jason Witten is still thriving, he deserves some credit for Austin and Bryant, and Laurent Robinson and Kevin Ogletree (two no-names) managed to have solid years. So I wouldn't be so quick to doubt the hire.

I agree and disagree with Shaun King. I disagree on the stance that Schiano was a bad hire and that we're not going anywhere, because I believe he was an excellent hire and we're moving in the right direction. However if the playoffs don't happen next year, MD and Freeman need to go.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phhhh I dont care what he has to say, he couldnt understand a playbook enough to ever see the field after Dungy left. Im not going to trust his judgement on a defensive schemes.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
Mark started with complete trash!!!

The season before Mark took over in 2008:

Joey Galloway - 37 years old
Ike Hillard - Last season he ever played in the NFL
Arron Sears - Last season he ever played in the NFL
Alex Smith - Has a whopping total of 31 catches since then
Jeff Garcia - 38 years old and never started another game
Kevin Carter - 35 years old and never played another snap
Cato June - Never started another game after the season
Jermaine Phillips - Played two more games the next season and then his NFL career was over
Josh Bidwell - Had a whopping total of 15 more punts after the 2008 season

This pile of scrubs where from the starting line, imagine what our bench guys looked like! Dexter Jackson anyone, maybe Chris Simms, Brian Griese... nobody, oh I got it Sabby Piscitelli!

Mark started with a bag of chips and that bag was EMPTY. Would you rather we be the Browns, Bills, Phins, Jags, Raiders, Panthers, Cowboys, Rams, Titans, Chiefs, Lions, Cards, Jets? Teams that are in cap hell or have been spinning their wheels for years and years. Our roster/team is obviously headed in the right direction or at least it seems obvious to me. We have money to make moves, we have a very, very young roster with a ton of players with potential. Ya ya potential is a fancy word for having done squat, but I will take where we are now from where we came from to where a large chunk of teams currently are in the league right now!


This is why Dominik will only be fired if we continue to have losing seasons. The only players left over from 2008 are who, Davin Joseph, Donald Penn, Quincy Black and Ronde Barber? And Talib? He built an entire team that was competitive this year in 5 years.

I definitely think Dom could get fired if we finish 4-12 or something. But if we go 8-8 next year his job is safe due to the continuing improvements they are making. I've been critical of Dom too, but he is hardly on the hot seat, nor do I want to see him leave.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a Bucs fan, but I live in the Tampa BAy area and as a result am forced to follow the Bucs as a result to listening to sports radio...

The Issue with the Bucs in not the GM....the guy has done a pretty good job bringing in talent and had one of the best off-season last year of any GM. The team need to bolster their pass defense and stay as injury free as possible and they will be looking at the Playoffs.

Schiano is going to be a good coach for you guys....he may rub other NFL team the worng way, but who cares....you need a guy like that to win.

Good luck in the upcoming draft....get some help in the defensive backfield and you should be competing at least for a wild card spot.
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eggybucsfan31


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to think this hack almost started a Super Bowl.....
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5nick5


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
I'm not a Bucs fan, but I live in the Tampa BAy area and as a result am forced to follow the Bucs as a result to listening to sports radio...

The Issue with the Bucs in not the GM....the guy has done a pretty good job bringing in talent and had one of the best off-season last year of any GM. The team need to bolster their pass defense and stay as injury free as possible and they will be looking at the Playoffs.

Schiano is going to be a good coach for you guys....he may rub other NFL team the worng way, but who cares....you need a guy like that to win.

Good luck in the upcoming draft....get some help in the defensive backfield and you should be competing at least for a wild card spot.


I'm glad I'm not crazy in thinking the Bucs can make it to the playoffs next year. I really see Miami making it too if they can retain most of their key FAs.

It's good to hear an unbiased opinion to at least let me know whether or not my optimism is insane or not.
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