Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Lombardi in charge of FA a "Good Idea?" Maybe
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Lombardi in charge of FA a "Good Idea?" Maybe Reply with quote

Lombadri is a Pro Player personnel guy. Ie he is thought to be good at getting Free agents. I saw a post over at the OBR that I am going to repost over here.

Quote:

AlwaysLose Posted: Yesterday 12:19 PM
Did Lombardi Build a Super Bowl Team?
I can't find definitively if Lombardi inherited the 1997 roster or the 1998 roster, but either way, people continue to make the argument that Lombardi went to the Super Bowl on a team that was assembled before he arrived. They then pick the 2003 season as the year to start giving Lombardi any credit for what happened in Oakland. Conveniently, 2003 is the year the bottom fell out.

I hope most people who read these boards care more about the truth than they care about flinging unresearched emotional arguments at each other.

Like everyone, I don't know the truth about Lombardi's tenure with any of his teams, but I do know how to see gaping holes in some of the "analysis" around here. Not knowing what I would find, I researched who made what types of impact on the 2002 Super Bowl bound Raiders team, and then I cross checked to see who was on the 1998 roster. (Again, Lombardi may have inherited the 1997 roster, but I'm unsure so I used 1998 to be safe.)

Here are the players who contributed during the 2002 season, their contributions in parentheses, and whether they were added to the team post-Lombardi.

QB - Rich Gannon (4700 yards, 97.3 Rating, 1st team pro bowl) - Not on 98 roster
RB1 - Charlie Garner (1900 total yards, 11 td) - Not on 98 roster
RB2 - Tyrone Wheatley (500 total yards) - Not on 98 roster
RB3 - Zack Crocket (8 Td) - Not on 98 roster
FB1 - Jon Ritchie (2 starts, 60 yds)
WR1 - Jerry Rice (1200 yd, 7 td, pro bowl) - Not on 97 roster
WR2 - Tim Brown (900 yd, 2 td)
WR3 - Jerry Porter (700 yd, 9 td) - Not on 98 roster
TE1 - Roland Williams (200 yds) - Not on 98 rostrer
TE2 - Doug Jolley (400 yd, 2 td) - Not on 98 roster
LT - Barry Sims (15 starts) - Not on 98 roster
LG - Mo Collins (10 starts) -
LG2 - Matt Stinchcomb (6 starts) - Not on 98 roster
C - Barret Robbins (16 starts, 1st team pro bowl)
RG - Frank Middleton (16 starts) - Not on 98 roster
RT - Lincoln Kennedy (15 starts)


RDE1 - Trace Armstrong (8 starts, 4 sacks) - Not on 98 roster
RDE2 - Tony Bryant (8 starts, 2.5 sacks) - Not on 98 roster
LDE- DeLawrence Grant (3 sacks) - Not on 98 roster
RDT - John Parella (1 sack) - Not on 98 roster
LDT - Sam Adams (2 sacks) - Not on 98 roster
ROLB - Eric Barton (6 sacks, 2 int, 112 solo tackles) - Not on 98 roster
LOLB - Bill Romanowski (4 sacks, 1 int, 75 solo tackles) - Not on 98 roster
MLB - Napolean Harris (70 tackles) - Not on 98 roster
RCB - Tory James (4 int, 42 tackles) - Not on 98 roster
LCB - Charles Woodson (7 starts) -
LCB2 - Terrance Shaw (7 starts) - Not on 98 roster
FS - Rod Woodson (8 int, 2 td, 1st team pro bowl) - Not on 98 roster
SS - Derrick Gibson (11 starts) - Not on 98 roster
SS2 - Anthony Dorsett (7 starts) - Not on 98 roster

K - Sebastian Janikowski - Not on 98 roster
P - Shane Lechler - Not on 98 roster
KR - Marcus Knight - Not on 98 roster
PR - Phillip Buchanan - Not on 98 roster

Analysis - Tim Brown, who was the team's number two receiver, a full back with two starts and 60 rushing yards, a left guard who started 10 games, a right tackle and a pro bowl center were still contributing on offense. Who was added post-Lombardi? The team's top three running backs including one who had 1900 total yards from scrimmage. A first team pro bowl quarterback. The team's number one receiver. A young, big-play threat wide receiver who arguably was more productive than the team's inherited number two receiver. Both tight ends who played during the year. Offensive lineman who accumulated 37 starts during the season.

On the defensive side, only one player was on the 1998 team - Charles Woodson. A big name, to be sure, but he was injured and only played seven games in this, his rookie season. He was also added at the beginning of the 1998 season and as I pointed out in the introduction, I'm unsure if Lombardi was part of the team that drafted Woodson. That means Lombardi's 2002 team had at most seven games started by players on defense who he inherited--everyone else he can take some credit for.

As far as special teams, both returners were brought in post-lombardi, as were Janikowski and Lechler.

This 2002 team's offense scored the second most points in the league. The defense gave up the sixth least points. The players were almost entirely acquired post-Lombardi. If Cleveland is in the Super Bowl in four years, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Josh Gordon, and Joe Haden are still on the team but every other starter is replaced, would you give Lombardi some credit for building the team?

Oh, right, of course not--the man is the worst talent evaluator in the history of the world and has never done any good. Therefore, he could not be responsible for anything positive, like the 2002 Raiders team.


With all that said here is an example of how I hope free agency goes. BTW here is a recently updated available Free agent list.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/42077/309/nfl-free-agent-master-list-13?pg=4
FREE AGENCY



Louis Vasquez #65 G
San Diego Chargers
Height: 6-5 Weight: 335 Age: 25
Born: 4/11/1987 Corsicana , TX
College: Texas Tech
Experience: 4th season
DS Comment: Well Vasquez obviously fits OC Turners offence to a T as he is from that offence. Having already known the verbage and and play calls he can help with the process of installing a new scheme player wise as well as upgrade the woefull guard positions. He chooses Cleveland because of Norv Turner.



Geoff Schwartz #76 T/G
Minnesota Vikings
Height: 6-6 Weight: 340 Age: 26
Born: 7/11/1986 Los Angeles , CA
College: Oregon
Experience: 4th season
DS Comment: Like Vasquez, Schwartz is a fit as he knows Chud from his Carolina days and knows the verbage and play calls as well. He can also help with the scheme install as well from a player point of view. As well as upgrade the woefull guard position. He chooses Cleveland because of his brother and Chud.



Patrick Chung #25 FS
New England Patriots
Height: 5-11 Weight: 210 Age: 25
Born: 8/19/1987 Kingston Jamaica
College: Oregon
DS Comment: Chung is out in New England due to a bad year or so of injuries. Cleveland takes a chance on him and chooses Cleveland with little help from TJ Ward a buddy from college. He upgrades the FS position.



Brian Hartline #82 WR
Miami Dolphins
Height: 6-2 Weight: 199 Age: 26
Born: 11/22/1986 Canton , OH
College: Ohio State
Experience: 4th season
DS Comment: With Jake Long LT, Randy Starks DT, Reggie Bush RB, Sean Smith CB,Chris Clemons S, & Anthony Fasano TE ALL Freeagents. hartline has a good shot a becoming a Free Agent. He would come to Cleveland to play for Norv Turner as he idolized the Cowboys growing up in Canton as well as he would like to come back to Ohio. The Franchise record holder for most receptions in a game for the Dolphins would make an excellent 3rd WR to Gordon and Little as Benjamin is more of a gadget play/deep play guy as well as a return man.



Keenan Lewis #23 CB
Pittsburgh Steelers
Height: 6-0 Weight: 208 Age: 26
Born: 5/17/1986 New Orleans , LA
College: Oregon State
Experience: 4th season
DS Comment: Lewis did well as a first-time starter this season. His probably glad he didn't sign a new deal following 2011. Lewis looks to attract significant action on the open market as he's just 26 years old and reaching his prime. The MCL sprain he sustained in December did not require surgery. I am hoping new DC Hortan is a draw to Cleveland for Lewis.

Basically my dream Free agency that is withing the realm of possibly.

Whats yours?
_________________
The Dawgpounds new three headed monster!

Adopt a Brown: QB Brandon Weeden
247/433 57% 2820yds 6.5avg 13 TD 15 Int
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HADEN4PREZIDENT


Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 487
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Jennings WR
Louis Vazquez OG
Shaun Phillips OLB
Jarius Byrd FS
Bradley Fletcher CB
_________________

^^^Jamison^^^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 13488
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HADEN4PREZIDENT wrote:
Greg Jennings WR
Louis Vazquez OG
Shaun Phillips OLB
Jarius Byrd FS
Bradley Fletcher CB


Jarius will get tagged if they don't agree to a long term deal.
_________________


Browns Forum HOF Member Class of 2011
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
shoffma1999


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2843
Location: Perrysburg, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very happy with your free agency. It would make our offensive line incredible, and very deep. We would add a decent possession/move the chains type WR. We would have the potential of getting a steal at FS. Finally we would steal an up and coming CB from a division rival. It is not entirely unrealistic, and would round out some need areas well. Then in the draft we could focus on DE/OLB, TE, and BPA.
_________________


- Props to 64 CHAMPS for the awesome sig -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5845
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Thomas- G
Kenny Phillips- FS
Bradley Fletcher- CB
Brice McCain/ Darius Butler- CB
Victor Butler/Antwan Barnes- OLB
Golden Tate- WR
_________________
2013 First Ballot Recipient of the Joe Blackburn Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 17282
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can almost guarantee we will sign one or more of the following:

Michael Adams
Rashad Johnson
James Sanders
Greg Toler

Ray Horton will help us attract some much-needed veteran secondary depth.

By the way, Lombardi is Vice President of Player Personnel. Not just Pro Personnel. He will have an equally amount of say in the draft. Jimmy Haslam called him the General Manager, and despite the title, that's pretty much what he is except he answers the the CEO Banner.

I'll give him some credit for the Oakland team, but his draft record is still atrocious. That is why the bottom fell out in 2003. The team was propped up with aging vets in key spots like Romanowski (36), Sam Adams (29/was not resigned after SB37), Jerry Rice (40), Tim Brown (36), and Rich Gannon (37).

Here's the drafts over that same time period, where Lombardi was "Senior Personnel Executive working closely with the owner on all football matters. Liaison with head coach and owner; responsible for pro and college player evaluations; and handled veteran contracts".

    1998
    1 4 Charles Woodson DB Michigan
    1 23 (from Tampa Bay) Mo Collins OT Florida
    1 31 * Leon Bender DT Washington State
    3 63 Jon Ritchie FB Stanford
    4 109 (from Washington) Gennaro Dinapoli OG Virginia Tech
    5 127 Jeremy Brigham TE Washington
    5 152 (from Green Bay) Travian Smith LB Oklahoma
    6 156 Scott McGarrahan DB New Mexico
    7 230 * Vince Amey DT Arizona State
    7 235 * David Sanders DE Arkansas

    1999
    1 18 Matt Stinchcomb OT Georgia
    2 40 Tony Bryant DE Florida St.
    4 102 Dameane Douglas WR California
    5 146 Eric Barton ILB Maryland
    5 153 Roderick Coleman DE East Carolina
    6 188 Darren Yancey DT Brigham Young
    7 224 Jo Juan Armour OLB Miami (OH)

    2000
    1 17 Sebastian Janikowski PK Florida St.
    2 47 Jerry Porter WR West Virginia
    4 107 Junior Ioane DT Arizona St.
    5 142 Shane Lechler P Texas A&M
    7 227 Mondriel Fulcher TE Miami (FL)
    7 231 Clifton Black CB SW Texas St.

    2001
    1 28 Derrick Gibson S Florida St.
    2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo QB Washington
    3 89 DeLawrence Grant DE Oregon St.
    5 158 Raymond Perryman S Northern Arizona
    6 184 Chris Cooper DE Nebraska-Omaha
    7 228 Derek Combs HB Ohio St.
    7 229 Ken-Yon Rambo WR Ohio St.

    2002
    1 17 Phillip Buchanon CB Miami (FL)
    1 23 Napoleon Harris OLB Northwestern
    2 53 Langston Walker OT California
    2 55 Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young
    5 147 Kenyon Coleman DE UCLA
    6 189 Keyon Nash S Albany St.
    6 197 Larry Ned HB San Diego St.
    7 235 Ronald Curry QB North Carolina


No wonder the team fell off in 2003.

Our only hope is that Joe Banner knows football better than Al Davis.

Color me skeptical of the man's ability to handle the position that's been nepotistically bestowed upon him. I do trust him to draft special teams players, but little else.

He gets credit sometimes for the Eagles' good 1998 draft (Tra Thomas/Jeremiah Trotter), but he was Director of Pro Personnel there, as the title of this thread incorrectly applied to his current position for the Browns'. His signings there helped take a 6 win team to 3 wins. Jeff Lurie summarily fired him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ether


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 2018
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't really describe our guard position as "woeful" and doubt we commit that many resources to fixing it. Either Lauvao or Greco, possibly both, will start next year in all likelihood and we'll be okay with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 43228
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ether wrote:
I wouldn't really describe our guard position as "woeful" and doubt we commit that many resources to fixing it. Either Lauvao or Greco, possibly both, will start next year in all likelihood and we'll be okay with that.


Honestly, if those two are considered our "weakest link" then the o-line is fine. Both of them together may be a problem but if just one of them starts fans needs to shut up Laughing
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ether


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 2018
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Ether wrote:
I wouldn't really describe our guard position as "woeful" and doubt we commit that many resources to fixing it. Either Lauvao or Greco, possibly both, will start next year in all likelihood and we'll be okay with that.


Honestly, if those two are considered our "weakest link" then the o-line is fine. Both of them together may be a problem but if just one of them starts fans needs to shut up Laughing


Seriously Greco and Lauvao aren't world beaters but they played on one of the best pass blocking lines in the league, and Lauvao has shown big improvement of the year prior. I feel like whenever he's in people are just gonna complain, some of it's justified, but a lot of it is exaggerated.

Nobody is familiar with the tendencies of this regime towards the offseason but I think we'll make 1 FA o-line signing and hardly address it until maybe later in the draft. We might just end adding a utility guy that can compete for a guard spot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
StewieRules


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 1658
Location: jacksonville
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read. The preponderance of written material suggests Lombardi is more or less a moron - and there always seems to be some question of how much input he had, despite his years of GM title for several teams.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath. His comments on the draft this year alone prior to season told me everything; the guy memorizes height/weight/40 times with the best of em, but he does not see how such measurements translate to on field NFL level talent. His years of drafts prove that.

On a side note - WHAT is the obsession with Schwartz as a FA guard?? Its been on EVERY mock of Dawgs for months -the guys not even a starter. Just curious ~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pnies20


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 7641
Location: Nashville through Erie, PA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically you added a quote from another forum and pasted 80% of the FAs from every mock you've made lol.
_________________
2013 Browns Forum HOF Inductee

<3 JF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 13488
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
So basically you added a quote from another forum and pasted 80% of the FAs from every mock you've made lol.


Thats what I first thought when I saw this. Laughing
_________________


Browns Forum HOF Member Class of 2011
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 43228
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are some free agent TEs?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fsubrowns9510


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 13488
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Who are some free agent TEs?


http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013TE.php
_________________


Browns Forum HOF Member Class of 2011
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
schuttje


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2203
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Dustin Keller news from Playerline: http://www.playerline.com/r/h9ZfyZE

How about Keller?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group