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Raiders Hire Tony Sparano to be O-line / Assistant HC
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3723
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.
I finally agree with Palooka
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
Posts: 1425
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the hire. We have two good offensive minds to help Greg Olson and Dennis Allen with offensive game planning now in Sparano and Saunders. Sparano is one of the better offensive line coaches in the league and is basically an expert on the PBS with Saunders basically being an expert in the passing game. It's never a bad thing to have two good minds assisting your head coach and offensive coordinator in other assistant roles.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2795
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, ba RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


Quit living in the past.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.

Yup+1
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5183
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?



Jason Campbell and Palmer aren't terrible.
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Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine.
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Tacos


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1170
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Sparano is a good OC, Matt Moore isn't a bad QB either. I like Moore more than Campbell at least.

I like the hire as it stands, pray he never gets elevated to OC or HC.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20148
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade.


Hue got passed over for Sparano with the Jets last season. He must not be impressing anybody the past 2 years though. I liked him as a OC here but man he got too cute with his playcalling and decision making as HC.
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Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
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BNich0622


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good football move here. I have really liked everything that has happened so far this off-season.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3788
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade.


Here we go again...courtesy of big_PMS

I love how you think hiring an assistant HC-which takes away responsibilities from Allen-is a testament to DA.
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Don't they just give them those extra titles as a form of protection? I thought I read that somewhere.....


Yes. It blocks lateral moves. Face to palm for anyone thinking otherwise, titles are meaningless and often created to play pseudo political staff games.


While I agree with that being the big reason for naming an Assitant HC...
I would have to say it must give him some greater power than just Oline coach, otherwise why would he sign it?

IF he signed just as oline coach does well he can get promoted to a OC next year maybe... Because he signed as a AHC, he can't be promoted to OC... because AHC is above OC IIRC

So your saying he signed as an assistant head coach for no other reason than to limit his chance at a promotion?


No, that is not what I am saying. So go back and read what I said.

I said LATERAL moves. Which means leaving to be an Oline guy with another team. Honestly, I don't even get why they bother. NFL allows teams to block lateral moves anyway, but this could be our way of not playing the bad guy in blocking him. Or it may have been something Sparano wanted, a way to pressure another team in the future into making his promotion more significant.

Either way, it's a totally stupid title. It really doesn't mean much in football terms other than the fact that if something happened to Dennis Allen like illness, Sparano is the interim HC by default.


Im aware it blocks lateral moves.
Im asking if it would also block a move to OC?

because IIRC AHC and oline coach is seen in the NFL as above an OC
I may be wrong though


Yeah, i thought the title of AHC meant you could only be hired away as a HC. I could be wrong though.
And that's a good hire. As a HC or OC, he isn't good but as a OL coach, he's fine.


haha ok thanks, thats what i thought.
so then he must be given more responsibility than a regular oline coach, or else there is no benefit to him.
I dont know what the extra responsibility / or how much there is..but there must be something extra
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
bitty wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
This has to be false. If I'm to understand here, Allen has no connections and is in over his head. Acquiring a talent like Sparano isn't feasible for HC who is so bad and has no connections.

Side note:

Notice none of the DA is the worst ever crown are posting in here?

Laughing Laughing


There you go
If hiring an assistant head coach doesn't scare you. Then you're oblivious.


why would hiring an AHC scare you?
A young HC saying he needs help (any young HC does) is a positive and will only help his development



It's not the position of assistant head coach that scares me it's the person.
Tony was hand picked by Bill Parcells to be HC of Miami. He's more qualified to be the Raiders HC then DA.


Ok i can understand that, but i think you could say that about a lot of our potential candidates.
if we had hired Norv Turner for example, he would have been more qualified then DA as HC... heck you could probably make a case Olsen is more qualified.

but theres more to it than qualifications. These guys had their chances and couldnt perform in the HC role... hopefully they learn from it and learn there spot is AHC / OC or whatever.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade.


Here we go again...courtesy of big_PMS

I love how you think hiring an assistant HC-which takes away responsibilities from Allen-is a testament to DA.


Word, DA does nothing right
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macklemore


Joined: 27 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
macklemore wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
One thing on Sparano as a HC/OC. It's ALL about the QB. People need to start realizing this.

2008 - 11-5 with Chad Pennington
2009 and 2010 - 7-9 With Henne
2011 - Fired at 4-9 when the team was coming on with Moore.

2012 - Jets OC with Sanchez at QB.

It's easy to say he was a bad HC/OC, but reality is without a good QB the results are not going to be there.

Miami was winning with Defense and a gimmick wildcat for a good stretch. The Jets were just terrible top to bottom on offense. Bad QB, bad RBs, Bad WRs.

People SERIOUSLY underestimate how important a QB is to making a coach look good.


but this logic doesn't apply when you argue against Hue Jackson, amirite?


What are you talking about? I've alway agreed Hue is a fine coach. Just EXTREMELY overrated here because the team was .500 for the first time in a decade.


I'm talking about Jason Campbell being a below average QB, I'm talking about how you consistently point towards Hue faltering in the second half of the season, after his below average QB was put on IR.

Surely can't blame him for the second half of the season, how are the results supposed to be there without the QB? Carson Palmer was a retired QB when we traded for him.. You can't expect a QB to come in mid-season and perform.

And by the way, I wasn't too fond of Hue Jackson.. I remember calling him out in a few game day threads. He just wasn't a good manager, but as a rookie HC that shouldn't be too concerning. When he was fired I understood why, I wasn't even mad. I'm just not thrilled with his replacement at all.
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