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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7294
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5530/michael-bennett

Quote:
Buccaneers DE Michael Bennett is expected to test the open market when the free-agent signing period begins on March 12.
Despite some conversation between Bennett and the Bucs, there presently is no momentum toward a deal being struck before the signing period begins. Bennett had a career-high nine sacks last season and was versatile for the Bucs, with nearly 11% of his snaps coming at defensive tackle. With both Adrian Clayborn and Da'Quan Bowers on the roster, Bennett appears to be the odd man out.


Goodbye Bennett, hello Avril!


Haha I just posted this in the Bucs General addition.

And no to Avril. He'll command more than Bennett and I'm not sure if he's that much of an upgrade.

In the scenario we lose Bennett, then Paul Kruegar should be tops on our list. He would be about 2-3 million cheaper than both guys and his Motor is non stop. Love the way he plays.


I would have no problem paying a guy $10 mil per that has averaged 10 sacks over the last 3 seasons and is only 26 years old!

Avril will add the speed our line is missing.

Kruger would be a solid grab as well but hasn't had the consistent production, he is older and has been playing in a 3-4. As for the 2-3 million cheaper, don't be so sure. All three (Bennett, Avril, Kruger) will be looking for $10 per.


And not one of them is worthy of 10 million a year. They're not elite. They are all good players, but they're not worth top end money. That's top 5 DE in the league money you're talking about.

Look at the Redskins and Cowboys in years past. Hitting big in FA doesn't not do anything. We need to add pieces yes, but not overspend and pay guys that aren't worth. See Eric Wright. Wright is a solid #2 CB, but he got paid 7.5 mil a year. That is pathetic.

This Free Agent class is more "Buyer Beware" than getting a high impact game changer or elite guy. We got too caught up into last years Aquisitions. To be honest, this year is nothing like the talent available than last off-season. Overspending would be a mistake.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5530/michael-bennett

Quote:
Buccaneers DE Michael Bennett is expected to test the open market when the free-agent signing period begins on March 12.
Despite some conversation between Bennett and the Bucs, there presently is no momentum toward a deal being struck before the signing period begins. Bennett had a career-high nine sacks last season and was versatile for the Bucs, with nearly 11% of his snaps coming at defensive tackle. With both Adrian Clayborn and Da'Quan Bowers on the roster, Bennett appears to be the odd man out.


Goodbye Bennett, hello Avril!


Haha I just posted this in the Bucs General addition.

And no to Avril. He'll command more than Bennett and I'm not sure if he's that much of an upgrade.

In the scenario we lose Bennett, then Paul Kruegar should be tops on our list. He would be about 2-3 million cheaper than both guys and his Motor is non stop. Love the way he plays.


I would have no problem paying a guy $10 mil per that has averaged 10 sacks over the last 3 seasons and is only 26 years old!

Avril will add the speed our line is missing.

Kruger would be a solid grab as well but hasn't had the consistent production, he is older and has been playing in a 3-4. As for the 2-3 million cheaper, don't be so sure. All three (Bennett, Avril, Kruger) will be looking for $10 per.


And not one of them is worthy of 10 million a year. They're not elite. They are all good players, but they're not worth top end money. That's top 5 DE in the league money you're talking about.

Look at the Redskins and Cowboys in years past. Hitting big in FA doesn't not do anything. We need to add pieces yes, but not overspend and pay guys that aren't worth. See Eric Wright. Wright is a solid #2 CB, but he got paid 7.5 mil a year. That is pathetic.

This Free Agent class is more "Buyer Beware" than getting a high impact game changer or elite guy. We got too caught up into last years Aquisitions. To be honest, this year is nothing like the talent available than last off-season. Overspending would be a mistake.


So you would be willing to pay Kruger coming from a 3-4 defense, who has a total of 15.5 sacks in his 4 year career (and 7.5 of his career total came after week 7 of this year) say 7-8 million per so we could "save" from paying Avril 9-11 million per? Avril is coming from a 4-3 so he has actually produced in the position that he would be filling and over the same span Kruger totaled 15.5 sacks, Avril totaled 34.5 sacks.... huh?
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7294
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5530/michael-bennett

Quote:
Buccaneers DE Michael Bennett is expected to test the open market when the free-agent signing period begins on March 12.
Despite some conversation between Bennett and the Bucs, there presently is no momentum toward a deal being struck before the signing period begins. Bennett had a career-high nine sacks last season and was versatile for the Bucs, with nearly 11% of his snaps coming at defensive tackle. With both Adrian Clayborn and Da'Quan Bowers on the roster, Bennett appears to be the odd man out.


Goodbye Bennett, hello Avril!


Haha I just posted this in the Bucs General addition.

And no to Avril. He'll command more than Bennett and I'm not sure if he's that much of an upgrade.

In the scenario we lose Bennett, then Paul Kruegar should be tops on our list. He would be about 2-3 million cheaper than both guys and his Motor is non stop. Love the way he plays.


I would have no problem paying a guy $10 mil per that has averaged 10 sacks over the last 3 seasons and is only 26 years old!

Avril will add the speed our line is missing.

Kruger would be a solid grab as well but hasn't had the consistent production, he is older and has been playing in a 3-4. As for the 2-3 million cheaper, don't be so sure. All three (Bennett, Avril, Kruger) will be looking for $10 per.


And not one of them is worthy of 10 million a year. They're not elite. They are all good players, but they're not worth top end money. That's top 5 DE in the league money you're talking about.

Look at the Redskins and Cowboys in years past. Hitting big in FA doesn't not do anything. We need to add pieces yes, but not overspend and pay guys that aren't worth. See Eric Wright. Wright is a solid #2 CB, but he got paid 7.5 mil a year. That is pathetic.

This Free Agent class is more "Buyer Beware" than getting a high impact game changer or elite guy. We got too caught up into last years Aquisitions. To be honest, this year is nothing like the talent available than last off-season. Overspending would be a mistake.


So you would be willing to pay Kruger coming from a 3-4 defense, who has a total of 15.5 sacks in his 4 year career (and 7.5 of his career total came after week 7 of this year) say 7-8 million per so we could "save" from paying Avril 9-11 million per? Avril is coming from a 4-3 so he has actually produced in the position that he would be filling and over the same span Kruger totaled 15.5 sacks, Avril totaled 34.5 sacks.... huh?


Per rotoworld.com

Quote:
Free agent DE Cliff Avril "would love" to get Mario Williams money.
Williams signed a six-year, $100 million deal with the Bills last offseason that included $50 million guaranteed. "I would love to get Mario's deal. Who wouldn't? Those are some great numbers. My thing is I want to keep getting better... The sky is the limit as far as that. Those are some great numbers, hopefully we can get somewhere near there," Avril said. Avril, 27 in April, turned down a three-year, $30 million offer from the Lions last year and went on to notch 9.5 sacks in 2012. He's arguably the top free agent on the market.


No. He already turned down 10 mil a year. See how that worked out for the bills and Williams is a much better player than Avril.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to answer your question on Kruegar: the guy showed up to play when it mattered. He harrassed Luck, Manning and Brady ALL DAY. Lived in the backfield. That game ending INT manning threw, guess who was in his face. Kruegar!

It took him a while to break through, but his motor is TERRIFIC. And yes, he's played with his hand in the dirt before, I can see him doing it again.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just going off of what you said earlier.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
In the scenario we lose Bennett, then Paul Kruegar should be tops on our list. He would be about 2-3 million cheaper than both guys and his Motor is non stop. Love the way he plays.


Now you show he wants $18 million per... obviously that is out of the question.

As for him turning down 3 years $10 million, I would hope so. The guys was what 25 years old coming off of a 11.5 sack season. He like most was probably wanting a 5-7 year deal. 3 year offer is a joke!


REDandPEWTER wrote:
And to answer your question on Kruegar: the guy showed up to play when it mattered.


Soooo his previous 3.5 years didn't "matter"? Some may say going big in a contract is for the most part "wanting to get paid"
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
I am just going off of what you said earlier.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
In the scenario we lose Bennett, then Paul Kruegar should be tops on our list. He would be about 2-3 million cheaper than both guys and his Motor is non stop. Love the way he plays.


Now you show he wants $18 million per... obviously that is out of the question.

As for him turning down 3 years $10 million, I would hope so. The guys was what 25 years old coming off of a 11.5 sack season. He like most was probably wanting a 5-7 year deal. 3 year offer is a joke!


REDandPEWTER wrote:
And to answer your question on Kruegar: the guy showed up to play when it mattered.


Soooo his previous 3.5 years didn't "matter"? Some may say going big in a contract is for the most part "wanting to get paid"


He turned down a new contract, after last year of 3 years 30 million (10 million per). Obviously he wants Mario Williams money.

at 9.5 sacks in 2012, nah. I'll pass. He's not in the class of top end pass rushers to warrent Mario Williams Money. Heck, Mario Williams, isn't even worth that. See how that worked out for the Bills.

I'm also looking at his game log: 7 of his sacks came against teams with weaker offensive lines. Green Bay, Chicago, Philly, and Indy.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why people want Kruger so badly. He's a complimentary player that has never shown much consistency. Kruger only started to produce this year when Suggs got back. He had 1.5 sacks in the 8 games that Suggs was out...
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
I'm not sure why people want Kruger so badly. He's a complimentary player that has never shown much consistency. Kruger only started to produce this year when Suggs got back. He had 1.5 sacks in the 8 games that Suggs was out...


Just watching the games, he looked unstoppable. Especially in the playoffs.

I don't think we get him. I think he goes back to Indianapolis with Pagano, his former DC.

I want to keep Bennett. IF we can't , I wouldn't mind Avril at the RIGHT price. What he wants, however, is foolish. He turned down 10 mil a year from the Lions.

I just think it's foolish to hand any player, who isn't an elite high impact player, that much money. Teams are built through the draft with Free Agency filling pieces to compliemnt your core. Last year, was a gift. We got two ELITE players. This year, other than Byrd and Flacco, who'm both won't make it to free agency, isn't exactly crawling with the elite guys.

That's why we need to watch how we spend. Overspending will make you the Cowboys and Redskins of a few years back. Winners in FA, but can't put it together on the field. It worked out oh so "Greatly" for PHilly last year didn't it?
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think its pretty stupid that we are going to let Bennett go. The guy has only improved as the years have gone on and he is a force in the run game. Its because of guys like him that we were #1 in the run last year. Say we sign Avril and he gets us 3 more sacks this year. What are we giving up beside money? The dude is [inappropriate/removed] in the run. We are going to lose our dominant run D for a player that can get 3 more sacks? Just me but this is stupid. Plus we lose out on leverage for Martellus.
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Renegades5544


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DE is a need if Bennett is on our roster. If he walks it becomes a need maybe even bigger than CB. Pretty much everyone on the market is going to get too much money, so my feeling is that we might as well give it to the guy that we already know has chemistry with our team and is a fit for our defense.

Don't let him hit the market, Dom.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renegades5544 wrote:
DE is a need if Bennett is on our roster. If he walks it becomes a need maybe even bigger than CB. Pretty much everyone on the market is going to get too much money, so my feeling is that we might as well give it to the guy that we already know has chemistry with our team and is a fit for our defense.

Don't let him hit the market, Dom.


It;s a chess match right now. Bennett's camp is looking for the best deal. Him hitting the market gives his camp leverage in the sense if you want him, you must match the price on the open market.

It's just how I see this being played out.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
I'm not sure why people want Kruger so badly. He's a complimentary player that has never shown much consistency. Kruger only started to produce this year when Suggs got back. He had 1.5 sacks in the 8 games that Suggs was out...


Just watching the games, he looked unstoppable. Especially in the playoffs.

I don't think we get him. I think he goes back to Indianapolis with Pagano, his former DC.

Sounds a lot like Ray Edwards to me...a complimentary DE that in a contract year blew up in the playoffs. Once he signed his big contract he looked like garbage.

Kruger hasn't produced much at all in his career and when he had to be the guy (the first half of this season with Suggs out) he didn't do much of anything. I'm skeptical of him. Very skeptical.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
I'm not sure why people want Kruger so badly. He's a complimentary player that has never shown much consistency. Kruger only started to produce this year when Suggs got back. He had 1.5 sacks in the 8 games that Suggs was out...


Just watching the games, he looked unstoppable. Especially in the playoffs.

I don't think we get him. I think he goes back to Indianapolis with Pagano, his former DC.

Sounds a lot like Ray Edwards to me...a complimentary DE that in a contract year blew up in the playoffs. Once he signed his big contract he looked like garbage.

Kruger hasn't produced much at all in his career and when he had to be the guy (the first half of this season with Suggs out) he didn't do much of anything. I'm skeptical of him. Very skeptical.


Bingo was his name-o
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the Bucs want to resign Bennett. However, besides determing Bennett's value, McCoy will need to be resigned in two years. I'm pretty confident McCoy will be the highest paid d-lineman on the roster when his contract is up. Overpaying Bennett in the organization's view could be a problem for two reasons instead of the obvious one.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Bennett get into the free agency period. There are alternatives available in free agency and in the draft, so maybe it might not be as much of a bidding war for available talent at the DE position. I would figure as 4-3 DEs go in free agency, Bennett is probably behind Avril and Johnson on the pecking order.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Bennett does want to test fa, he is as good as gone!

No chance with the amount of money we have combined with a few rushers being available do we wait for him.

I mean really, why would we sit back hoping he comes crawling back to take our offer? We "wait" for him, he chooses to go elsewhere and the other top guys are also gone... I thought something was up when we are hearing about all of these other guys and nothing was coming out about Bennett. Potential guys like Melton, Michael Johnson, Spencer, Avril, Freeney, Knighton, Osi, Bryant on the market why wait?

I would love to have him but I think there is zero chance he is back if he isn't signed before fa hits.
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