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Ireland: At Least He Sees the Problem
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
SUG wrote:
MiaDolphan13 wrote:
How do you guys translate his wording about Long? Ive read it like 10 times and take it like if he asks for big money see ya.


All due respect, that was about the most disappointing aspect of the entire article to me.

Not that I'm always right but I swear to you this J. Long issue should have been dealt with last yr.

1 of 2 things are going to happen about that.

a). we draft another OT
b). we spend half of our cap space on signing a OT

That is/was a WAY BIGGER ISSUE than Bmarsh or Vontae.
I know were in a good position going into the offseason but, this is the anchor around our necks today.

I just don't see anything more imp in the entire roster as of today.

sug


If Jake Long departs this off season and we get nothing in return, I generally agree, it would be a truly foolish move of Ireland to have not traded him last off season. We could have had AT LEAST had a first rounder for Long if we had unloaded him last year, and probably more.

Where I differ, and where I am most certainly in the extreme minority here is that I believe we shouldn't give up on Long. I think it takes time to get used to a new style of play and I believe the light WILL go on for Long. I believe he was also hampered by very poor play early in the season from Incognito. Incognito needed time to learn the system and the light went on for him later in the year. Long might not be as effective as he was in the Dolphins last system offensive line scheme, but I still believe he can be very good. That coupled with the fact that he appears to be the leader for this unit, make him have high value

Salary is a consideration, undoubtedly, but his value dropped enough with his injury and subpar play that to me he would likely be worthy of the contract he will receive and he would allow us to focus our off season capitol/draft picks on other needs.

Either way, getting nothing for Long could be AS bad a move as the Marshall deal, IMHO.


The issue with unloading Long last off-season would be protection (or perceived protection). Granted a 1st rounder could have been used on a Rookie LT, but the outcry would be deafening.

"You are going to draft the future of the franchise and trade away one of the best LT in the NFL and leave him with little protection on the backside"

Nothing for Long due to free agency is part of the game....players leave and if he is a shell of his former self as a result of the mounting injuries and change in scheme then he will not be worth what he wants (at least to the Dolphins). If he does comeback at a reasonable price then I guess it could work. I do think the team could be better off letting Long go and signing a cheaper RT and letting Martin man the LT position. I know everyone says he's horrible, but I still only see one or maybe two bad games and those were against teams that just played on Sunday...
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:


Nothing for Long due to free agency is part of the game.


The better teams in the NFL don't let their highest profile players walk without compensation. Half of this forum was calling for trading Jake Long last year when his value was high and it was clear that a coaching change was coming. I was not one of those people, but that's really beside the point. The fact is, we would hope that the smartest guy in the room would be the guy running our team. It seems, if we get nothing in return for Jake Long, Ireland is not the smartest guy in the room, and in fact, average fans with no view of the inner workings of the team, regularly have a better insight than our GM.

In my mind, getting NOTHING for Jake Long is inexcusable and adds one more GIANT brick to the already poor record of decisions made by Jeff Ireland.
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ProudDolphan47


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


Nothing for Long due to free agency is part of the game.


The better teams in the NFL don't let their highest profile players walk without compensation. Half of this forum was calling for trading Jake Long last year when his value was high and it was clear that a coaching change was coming. I was not one of those people, but that's really beside the point. The fact is, we would hope that the smartest guy in the room would be the guy running our team. It seems, if we get nothing in return for Jake Long, Ireland is not the smartest guy in the room, and in fact, average fans with no view of the inner workings of the team, regularly have a better insight than our GM.

In my mind, getting NOTHING for Jake Long is inexcusable and adds one more GIANT brick to the already poor record of decisions made by Jeff Ireland.


Compensation picks Wink
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


Nothing for Long due to free agency is part of the game.


The better teams in the NFL don't let their highest profile players walk without compensation. Half of this forum was calling for trading Jake Long last year when his value was high and it was clear that a coaching change was coming. I was not one of those people, but that's really beside the point. The fact is, we would hope that the smartest guy in the room would be the guy running our team. It seems, if we get nothing in return for Jake Long, Ireland is not the smartest guy in the room, and in fact, average fans with no view of the inner workings of the team, regularly have a better insight than our GM.

In my mind, getting NOTHING for Jake Long is inexcusable and adds one more GIANT brick to the already poor record of decisions made by Jeff Ireland.


Compensation picks Wink


Yep. That could be the best thing we get out of this.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


Nothing for Long due to free agency is part of the game.


The better teams in the NFL don't let their highest profile players walk without compensation. Half of this forum was calling for trading Jake Long last year when his value was high and it was clear that a coaching change was coming. I was not one of those people, but that's really beside the point. The fact is, we would hope that the smartest guy in the room would be the guy running our team. It seems, if we get nothing in return for Jake Long, Ireland is not the smartest guy in the room, and in fact, average fans with no view of the inner workings of the team, regularly have a better insight than our GM.

In my mind, getting NOTHING for Jake Long is inexcusable and adds one more GIANT brick to the already poor record of decisions made by Jeff Ireland.


I understand your point and it is one of the things many good team do in order to stay good. Patriots are one of the best at it in trading guys who are on the downside of their career or making sure they get something for a player.

I do think Ireland should have been retained for this off-season, but he has this off-season....he's built up to it and it has to pay off....if it doesn't then he should be shown the door.

As far as Long....if he leaves then he leaves....I only see him staying with the Dolphins at a "discount"...he's not worth top tier tackle money anymore, but I'm sure some team will offer it to him.
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Maddogg


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way we get a compensation pick if Jake Long walks is going to be based on the formula of who we lose, what contracts they sign, how their performance compares to others at that position in the NFL(factoring in various awards) minus who we sign as free agents their contracts signed, how their performance compares to others at that position in the NFL(factoring in various awards).

In other words if Jake Long walks and he plays well for his new team and is named to the Pro Bowl and say we sign Dwayne Bowe and he has like 85 catches 1240 yards with 9 TD's and makes the Pro Bowl. Bowe basically cancels out Long and everything else being even in free agency, we end up with no compensation pick. The net effect has to be the loss of Long must be greater than any gain to receive a compensation pick.
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