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Dalton v Kaepernick
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3370
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Dalton v Kaepernick Reply with quote

Most regulars will know my views on Andy Dalton, and just what he has already done for this team, and I know some other guys here are not so impressed.

Thinking back to that 2011 draft, we remember the Bengals taking Dalton @ #35, and the 9ers taking Colin Kaepernick with the very next pick.

Watching Kaepernick tear it up over his first 10 starts and have a big role taking his team to the SB; simple question; did we draft the right guy ?

Your views will be interesting .......
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marshawn lynch


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaep is better imo. He can do it all.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a big fan of Kaep out of Nevada. I watched the Fight Hunger Bowl specifically to see how he would do against that BC defense. The only negative I had about Kaep was his wind up. He had a Tim Tebow-esque wind up in college.

I thought if he ever fixed that he would be phenomenal. So Kaep. I do like Dalton though. For Gruden's system, I thought he fit perfectly. Just needs to improve on his deep ball which somehow has gotten worse...
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theJ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
I was a big fan of Kaep out of Nevada. I watched the Fight Hunger Bowl specifically to see how he would do against that BC defense. The only negative I had about Kaep was his wind up. He had a Tim Tebow-esque wind up in college.

I thought if he ever fixed that he would be phenomenal. So Kaep. I do like Dalton though. For Gruden's system, I thought he fit perfectly. Just needs to improve on his deep ball which somehow has gotten worse...

I don't know that Kaep would have been ready to start last year. The team probably would have rolled with Gradkowski.

Plus, you never really know how Kaep would have developed here.

For arguments sake, i'd rather have Kaep right now. But i'm not convinced that's the right answer.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
Plus, you never really know how Kaep would have developed here.


Its also worth remembering that Mike Brown would have taken Ryan Mallett
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sparky151


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
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Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the benefit of hindsight, obviously Kaepernick is better. He's bigger, faster, stronger, has a better arm, is more accurate, provides a rushing threat that slows the pass rush, and will probably get better. How much more upside Dalton has is an open question. His second season was a bit better than the first but his accuracy is less than advertised, and his reads of the defense not as good as promised.
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ark23


Joined: 04 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaep has the higher ceiling, but how much would his development have been slowed had we started him right away? He would not have been ready to play right away, and if we did start him anyway I think it could have hindered his development.

Dalton was the smart pick because of his mental attributes and NFL readiness. A guy with a quick release, lots of experience and who excelled from the head up. But he doesn't have the ceiling that Kaep has, and didn't have the ceiling Kaep has currently.

We can win with Dalton, but unlike Kaepernick he can't be the focal point of our offense. We need to win with a strong running game, dynamic playmakers around him and a solid offensive line.
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sparky151


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ark23 wrote:
Kaep has the higher ceiling, but how much would his development have been slowed had we started him right away? He would not have been ready to play right away, and if we did start him anyway I think it could have hindered his development.

Dalton was the smart pick because of his mental attributes and NFL readiness. A guy with a quick release, lots of experience and who excelled from the head up. But he doesn't have the ceiling that Kaep has, and didn't have the ceiling Kaep has currently.

We can win with Dalton, but unlike Kaepernick he can't be the focal point of our offense. We need to win with a strong running game, dynamic playmakers around him and a solid offensive line.


Put another way Dalton is a liability in your eyes in terms of winning a Superbowl. We'll have to beat teams with elite QBs to win the SB but without one ourselves.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparky151 wrote:
ark23 wrote:
Kaep has the higher ceiling, but how much would his development have been slowed had we started him right away? He would not have been ready to play right away, and if we did start him anyway I think it could have hindered his development.

Dalton was the smart pick because of his mental attributes and NFL readiness. A guy with a quick release, lots of experience and who excelled from the head up. But he doesn't have the ceiling that Kaep has, and didn't have the ceiling Kaep has currently.

We can win with Dalton, but unlike Kaepernick he can't be the focal point of our offense. We need to win with a strong running game, dynamic playmakers around him and a solid offensive line.


Put another way Dalton is a liability in your eyes in terms of winning a Superbowl. We'll have to beat teams with elite QBs to win the SB but without one ourselves.

At this point i feel it's worth it to point out that SF wouldn't get to the SB without a stellar defense, strong running game and amazing offensive line.
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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ark23 wrote:
Kaep has the higher ceiling, but how much would his development have been slowed had we started him right away? He would not have been ready to play right away, and if we did start him anyway I think it could have hindered his development.

Dalton was the smart pick because of his mental attributes and NFL readiness. A guy with a quick release, lots of experience and who excelled from the head up. But he doesn't have the ceiling that Kaep has, and didn't have the ceiling Kaep has currently.

We can win with Dalton, but unlike Kaepernick he can't be the focal point of our offense. We need to win with a strong running game, dynamic playmakers around him and a solid offensive line.


This. But I believe Dalton will continue to grow as a QB and lead us to the promised land. And it's not like Kaep is single handedly leading the 49ers to all their wins. He has playmakers around him on both sides of the ball.
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ochocinco4pres


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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Location: Indianapolis Indiana
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ark23 wrote:
Kaep has the higher ceiling, but how much would his development have been slowed had we started him right away? He would not have been ready to play right away, and if we did start him anyway I think it could have hindered his development.

Dalton was the smart pick because of his mental attributes and NFL readiness. A guy with a quick release, lots of experience and who excelled from the head up. But he doesn't have the ceiling that Kaep has, and didn't have the ceiling Kaep has currently.

We can win with Dalton, but unlike Kaepernick he can't be the focal point of our offense. We need to win with a strong running game, dynamic playmakers around him and a solid offensive line.


Completely agree. Kaep needed time. Plus I don't know if he would fit Grudens offense. Dalton is exactly what we needed. It's easy to say now seeing Kaep play so well, but his team around him is elite. Dalton will Improve. But very well said
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
I was a big fan of Kaep out of Nevada. I watched the Fight Hunger Bowl specifically to see how he would do against that BC defense. The only negative I had about Kaep was his wind up. He had a Tim Tebow-esque wind up in college.

I thought if he ever fixed that he would be phenomenal. So Kaep. I do like Dalton though. For Gruden's system, I thought he fit perfectly. Just needs to improve on his deep ball which somehow has gotten worse...

I don't know that Kaep would have been ready to start last year. The team probably would have rolled with Gradkowski.

Plus, you never really know how Kaep would have developed here.

For arguments sake, i'd rather have Kaep right now. But i'm not convinced that's the right answer.


Dalton is better for Gruden's system than Kaep is. But Kaep is a better QB overall.

Kaep definitely wouldn't have been as successful as Dalton the first year. Watching Kaep last year, he wasn't ready. But he's come a long way and is the better QB atm.

I'm still really happy with Dalton. He's way too young to write off just yet...
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Spartan300


Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fine with the Dalton pick. You have no idea how Kaep would have done with Gruden's offense or starting last year as a rookie. I did want Mallet in the 2nd though. Jury is still out on him.
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futbudds


Joined: 20 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nickelback came into a MUCH better situation that was warmed up by a lesser qb that was able to win games because of the guys around him. If he had a year behind the Bruce and J Gruden he would've had a much harder time getting to where he is imo. Probably alot more scrambling to throw bombs to Aj a la Shake n Blake v 2.0.

I still don't understand how Dalton's accuracy on just about all throws has gotten worse ans same with his pocket prescence. Hopefully Cook, Robinson or whoever plays C next year will keep the inside pressure at bay.

Only thing Dalton has on nickelback is longevity. Running qb's tend to either burn out or break down quicker, unless he is Steve Young jr. Either way I am fine with Dalton as long as he grabs the leader role by the throat and fixes his happy feet.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

futbudds wrote:
Running qb's tend to either burn out or break down quicker, unless he is Steve Young jr. Either way I am fine with Dalton as long as he grabs the leader role by the throat and fixes his happy feet.


Great point 'fb'.

How much joy would Kaepernick have as a running QB against those good AFCN defences ?

Like RGIII, he might of nearly got killed.....
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