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Mayock: Fisher Could Battle Joeckel To Be 1st OT Taken
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Not top 3 yet though. He'd have to blow up the combine to have a chance at that.


What exactly are you going to see at the combine that is going to be able to change your grade on an Offensive Tackle??


I'm not changing my grade. He's a top 10-15 talent to me. Just saying a great combine performance could make him a top 3 pick.


So waht at the combine are you going to see to make him a top 3 pick. I guarantee you most NFL teams are not going to get anything out of the combine that tells them to pick an OT in the first three selections, and if he does go in the top three it is most likely that the team had a very, very good grade on his tape coming out of CMU, like as good as Joeckel or better at the end of the season.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to say. I definitely agree more towards what Khodder's saying in terms of the importance of the combine for positions like offensive tackle but then again I just watched a guy I thought was a 2nd round pick go 11th overall to Kansas City last season because he ran fast and jumped high. Dontari Poe had weak, inconsistent tape, no production, no football resume to speak of really. As a 3-4 nose, even in Romeo's system, his numbers should have been basically an afterthought. 11th overall. It's just hard to say what people will or won't take away from the combine.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just keep going back to Aaron Currey's workout of a couple year's back and how unreal it was at the time.

And how bad he's been since. I've downplayed my enthuasiam for the combine following Currey's freak like performance.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Hard to say. I definitely agree more towards what Khodder's saying in terms of the importance of the combine for positions like offensive tackle but then again I just watched a guy I thought was a 2nd round pick go 11th overall to Kansas City last season because he ran fast and jumped high. Dontari Poe had weak, inconsistent tape, no production, no football resume to speak of really. As a 3-4 nose, even in Romeo's system, his numbers should have been basically an afterthought. 11th overall. It's just hard to say what people will or won't take away from the combine.


And now the Cheifs are restocking their front office, coincidence? Probably, not only related to Poe, but the Cheifs have struggled to draft well over the past couple of seasons.

Outisde of Justin Houston, Jeff Allen and MAYBE Jon Baldwin they have not drafted a starter in the last two years.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Not top 3 yet though. He'd have to blow up the combine to have a chance at that.


What exactly are you going to see at the combine that is going to be able to change your grade on an Offensive Tackle??


I'm not changing my grade. He's a top 10-15 talent to me. Just saying a great combine performance could make him a top 3 pick.


So waht at the combine are you going to see to make him a top 3 pick. I guarantee you most NFL teams are not going to get anything out of the combine that tells them to pick an OT in the first three selections, and if he does go in the top three it is most likely that the team had a very, very good grade on his tape coming out of CMU, like as good as Joeckel or better at the end of the season.


See Jason Smith, OT from Baylor, was a #2 pick. He showed much less tape than Fisher did but he blew up the senior bowl and the combine. It happens.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Hard to say. I definitely agree more towards what Khodder's saying in terms of the importance of the combine for positions like offensive tackle but then again I just watched a guy I thought was a 2nd round pick go 11th overall to Kansas City last season because he ran fast and jumped high. Dontari Poe had weak, inconsistent tape, no production, no football resume to speak of really. As a 3-4 nose, even in Romeo's system, his numbers should have been basically an afterthought. 11th overall. It's just hard to say what people will or won't take away from the combine.


And now the Cheifs are restocking their front office, coincidence? Probably, not only related to Poe, but the Cheifs have struggled to draft well over the past couple of seasons.

Outisde of Justin Houston, Jeff Allen and MAYBE Jon Baldwin they have not drafted a starter in the last two years.


N, it certainly isn't a coincidence but Pioli did get that job and there are a lot of other people just like him out there who can and have gotten general manager positions. Pioli's not an isolated case.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
See Jason Smith, OT from Baylor, was a #2 pick. He showed much less tape than Fisher did but he blew up the senior bowl and the combine. It happens.


Smith was probably highly graded by the Rams front office before those offseason events.

Just because someone has a good combine and then they get taken ahead of where the general public expect them to be taken does not mean they were overdrafted based on the combine.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
See Jason Smith, OT from Baylor, was a #2 pick. He showed much less tape than Fisher did but he blew up the senior bowl and the combine. It happens.


Smith was probably highly graded by the Rams front office before those offseason events.

Just because someone has a good combine and then they get taken ahead of where the general public expect them to be taken does not mean they were overdrafted based on the combine.


Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.


I GUARANTEE you it was not a scout going to his GM and saying, the OT from Baylor, he just tore it up at the Sneior Bowl and Combine.

The Regional Scouts will build their grade based on what they see on the field. What they have seen when they talk to the kid, what they se in practice. It will be a GM comiung back to a scout saying. What does your report say on this kid, he seems to be generating some hype right now.

And they will report to the GM on that and the GM will either choose to take it on board of ignore it.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.


Were scouts raving about him. Or was it McShay, Mayock and Kiper raving about him. HUGE difference.
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DDOCKETT90


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke will still go 1st but maybe we can take fisher with the 7th?
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.


I GUARANTEE you it was not a scout going to his GM and saying, the OT from Baylor, he just tore it up at the Sneior Bowl and Combine.

The Regional Scouts will build their grade based on what they see on the field. What they have seen when they talk to the kid, what they se in practice. It will be a GM comiung back to a scout saying. What does your report say on this kid, he seems to be generating some hype right now.

And they will report to the GM on that and the GM will either choose to take it on board of ignore it.


Also this is not to say that players do not move around because of these All-Star games and the combine, because the fact is they do. But we are not talking a 3rd round projection ending up in the top 15. We are talking a good looking prospect vs lessor competition or a guy who you have a couple of issues with in film, but he seems to have worked those out for the postseason All-Star circut.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher would be my pick at #7 and then go for a QB in the 2nd.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.


I GUARANTEE you it was not a scout going to his GM and saying, the OT from Baylor, he just tore it up at the Sneior Bowl and Combine.

The Regional Scouts will build their grade based on what they see on the field. What they have seen when they talk to the kid, what they se in practice. It will be a GM comiung back to a scout saying. What does your report say on this kid, he seems to be generating some hype right now.

And they will report to the GM on that and the GM will either choose to take it on board of ignore it.


Bolded: Not that it changes much of your argument but scouts don't regularly attend team practices and I know of a very high number of college coaches who flat out refuse to allow NFL scouts to view actual team practice. This is one reason why NFL scouts and teams love events like the Senior Bowl, because they finally get an up close look at individual prospects in a practice type setting.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Top 5 grade? very very doubtful. Scouts were raving about Smith after the Senior Bowl and the Combine. Scouts are humans too and they can get sucked into the numbers and senior bowl performances like anybody else.


I GUARANTEE you it was not a scout going to his GM and saying, the OT from Baylor, he just tore it up at the Sneior Bowl and Combine.

The Regional Scouts will build their grade based on what they see on the field. What they have seen when they talk to the kid, what they se in practice. It will be a GM comiung back to a scout saying. What does your report say on this kid, he seems to be generating some hype right now.

And they will report to the GM on that and the GM will either choose to take it on board of ignore it.


Bolded: Not that it changes much of your argument but scouts don't regularly attend team practices and I know of a very high number of college coaches who flat out refuse to allow NFL scouts to view actual team practice. This is one reason why NFL scouts and teams love events like the Senior Bowl, because they finally get an up close look at individual prospects in a practice type setting.


Yeah, but if they do get in (Most commonly at the smaller schools, especially those below the FBS division) it will be a part of their eval.
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