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How Good is McCarthy?
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GreenBlood


Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbens06 wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:

He's clearly one of the best coaches in the NFL and there really aren't a whole lot of guys that come to mind that I'd take over him. He's in the Elite NFL Coaching class, no doubt about it to me.


Do elite coaches take their RB who is averaging 5 yards per carry and bench him the entire second half of a playoff game?


Although I would have love to see Harris continue running the ball in the second half I cannot get too upset with McCarthy for that. If you read his explanation it makes a lot of sense.

First drive of the second half Harris carried the ball the first two plays for 6 yards and on third down Rodgers was sacked.

Second drive of the second half they utilized the Cobb package and he ran the ball. They ended up getting a field goal and tied the game at 24.

Third drive of the second half (down by 7) they tried to open up the field and pass the ball. Unfortunately we could only get one first down and then had to punt.

San Francisco then went down and scored another touchdown to go up 14. We could have tried to continue to run at this point, but it was the start of the fourth quarter and we were down by 14, passing was a must. Plus we are a team that is capable of striking quickly and move the ball by passing. Unfortunately the passing game did not click, but I cannot fault McCarthy for that.


I'm sorry but if you're getting nearly 5 per carry against one of the best run defenses, and you only give it to that guy 1 time in the entire second half, then it tells me you have no clue how to use your runners. MM completely ditches the running game as soon as we are down by more than a TD. When we're not passing effectively and not running the ball by choice, that means heavy minutes for the defense. I don't know of very many coaches who would look at his RBs half time production and see 10 carries for 50 yards who would only let that guy run one more time the entire game. No excuse for that. How does that conversation go? "Okay, let's look at what's working for us... passing game is doing okay. Run game is really working well. Hmm.. but we're down by 3 points. Okay, 5 yards a pop isn't going to cut it, so no more running..."
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RiotPunch


Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have definitely done my fair share of criticizing McCarthy, but that said I do think he is a top 5 to top 10 coach in the league. He is an innovative offensive mind, he is a very good quarterback developer, he is a strong leader, his players love him and play hard for him and most of all he is a great man that is easy to root for.

He still needs to brush up on his in-game management skills a bit, but everything else is elite. Smile
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packattack86


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mac is a very good coach, but from time to time he makes stupid calls. There are 2 things Mac does that bother me.

1. Quite often it seems like it takes him way too long before making in game adjustments. For example, Arod could be getting crushed by a teams pass rush and Mac will keep trying to spread it out, finally after half time he will come out and put a RB or TE in to block.

2. Random stupid play calls - Once in awhile Mac will call some very stupid plays like on 3rd and 1 he'll try throwing deep, or throwing to Kuhn in the flat, little things like that.
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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

packattack86 wrote:
I think Mac is a very good coach, but from time to time he makes stupid calls. There are 2 things Mac does that bother me.

1. Quite often it seems like it takes him way too long before making in game adjustments. For example, Arod could be getting crushed by a teams pass rush and Mac will keep trying to spread it out, finally after half time he will come out and put a RB or TE in to block.

2. Random stupid play calls - Once in awhile Mac will call some very stupid plays like on 3rd and 1 he'll try throwing deep, or throwing to Kuhn in the flat, little things like that.


I get why people were frustrated by the 3rd and 1 calls, but our running backs were HORRIBLE at picking up 3 and short all season. Plus, those really are the only times we get on of our receievers on a good one on one situation. Last year we had a lot of big plays on 3rd and 1, this year... Not so much.
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TheGreatZepp


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBlood wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:

He's clearly one of the best coaches in the NFL and there really aren't a whole lot of guys that come to mind that I'd take over him. He's in the Elite NFL Coaching class, no doubt about it to me.


Do elite coaches take their RB who is averaging 5 yards per carry and bench him the entire second half of a playoff game?


Although I would have love to see Harris continue running the ball in the second half I cannot get too upset with McCarthy for that. If you read his explanation it makes a lot of sense.

First drive of the second half Harris carried the ball the first two plays for 6 yards and on third down Rodgers was sacked.

Second drive of the second half they utilized the Cobb package and he ran the ball. They ended up getting a field goal and tied the game at 24.

Third drive of the second half (down by 7) they tried to open up the field and pass the ball. Unfortunately we could only get one first down and then had to punt.

San Francisco then went down and scored another touchdown to go up 14. We could have tried to continue to run at this point, but it was the start of the fourth quarter and we were down by 14, passing was a must. Plus we are a team that is capable of striking quickly and move the ball by passing. Unfortunately the passing game did not click, but I cannot fault McCarthy for that.


I'm sorry but if you're getting nearly 5 per carry against one of the best run defenses, and you only give it to that guy 1 time in the entire second half, then it tells me you have no clue how to use your runners. MM completely ditches the running game as soon as we are down by more than a TD. When we're not passing effectively and not running the ball by choice, that means heavy minutes for the defense. I don't know of very many coaches who would look at his RBs half time production and see 10 carries for 50 yards who would only let that guy run one more time the entire game. No excuse for that. How does that conversation go? "Okay, let's look at what's working for us... passing game is doing okay. Run game is really working well. Hmm.. but we're down by 3 points. Okay, 5 yards a pop isn't going to cut it, so no more run]ning..."
Harris got the ball the first TWO plays of the second half, at least get it right if you're going to constantly complain about only giving him one carry. On top of that, four of the first ten plays of the second half were runs.

But no you're right let's take the ball out of the best player in the league's hands where he can spread the ball around to the team's playmakers. Give it to a guy who has an outlier affecting his average that while he may have had an official average of five yards, he was getting three yards a carry

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Not the impact of a guy you have to keep feeding the ball too.

You could of tried your luck with Harris but you could just as easily keep the ball in Rodgers' hands and let him put it in Jennings, Jones, Finley, Cobb and Nelson's hands.
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TheGreatZepp


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2Bigby0 wrote:
packattack86 wrote:
I think Mac is a very good coach, but from time to time he makes stupid calls. There are 2 things Mac does that bother me.

1. Quite often it seems like it takes him way too long before making in game adjustments. For example, Arod could be getting crushed by a teams pass rush and Mac will keep trying to spread it out, finally after half time he will come out and put a RB or TE in to block.

2. Random stupid play calls - Once in awhile Mac will call some very stupid plays like on 3rd and 1 he'll try throwing deep, or throwing to Kuhn in the flat, little things like that.


I get why people were frustrated by the 3rd and 1 calls, but our running backs were HORRIBLE at picking up 3 and short all season. Plus, those really are the only times we get on of our receievers on a good one on one situation. Last year we had a lot of big plays on 3rd and 1, this year... Not so much.
This year Jennings and Nelson were limited to unavailable. Coincidence?

Third and one you should be able to give any back the ball, this year the offensive line just didn't have the push. Newhouse, Saturday and Bulaga (prior to injury) all were losing at the line of scrimmage. Those short yardage plays are ones the line has to win.
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umphrey


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top 5. You have to pair him with a good defensive coordinator, but it is a good strategy to have a coach that specializes in offense/defense and leadership and delegate the other side of the ball.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:

He's clearly one of the best coaches in the NFL and there really aren't a whole lot of guys that come to mind that I'd take over him. He's in the Elite NFL Coaching class, no doubt about it to me.


Do elite coaches take their RB who is averaging 5 yards per carry and bench him the entire second half of a playoff game?


Although I would have love to see Harris continue running the ball in the second half I cannot get too upset with McCarthy for that. If you read his explanation it makes a lot of sense.

First drive of the second half Harris carried the ball the first two plays for 6 yards and on third down Rodgers was sacked.

Second drive of the second half they utilized the Cobb package and he ran the ball. They ended up getting a field goal and tied the game at 24.

Third drive of the second half (down by 7) they tried to open up the field and pass the ball. Unfortunately we could only get one first down and then had to punt.

San Francisco then went down and scored another touchdown to go up 14. We could have tried to continue to run at this point, but it was the start of the fourth quarter and we were down by 14, passing was a must. Plus we are a team that is capable of striking quickly and move the ball by passing. Unfortunately the passing game did not click, but I cannot fault McCarthy for that.


I'm sorry but if you're getting nearly 5 per carry against one of the best run defenses, and you only give it to that guy 1 time in the entire second half, then it tells me you have no clue how to use your runners. MM completely ditches the running game as soon as we are down by more than a TD. When we're not passing effectively and not running the ball by choice, that means heavy minutes for the defense. I don't know of very many coaches who would look at his RBs half time production and see 10 carries for 50 yards who would only let that guy run one more time the entire game. No excuse for that. How does that conversation go? "Okay, let's look at what's working for us... passing game is doing okay. Run game is really working well. Hmm.. but we're down by 3 points. Okay, 5 yards a pop isn't going to cut it, so no more run]ning..."
Harris got the ball the first TWO plays of the second half, at least get it right if you're going to constantly complain about only giving him one carry. On top of that, four of the first ten plays of the second half were runs.

But no you're right let's take the ball out of the best player in the league's hands where he can spread the ball around to the team's playmakers. Give it to a guy who has an outlier affecting his average that while he may have had an official average of five yards, he was getting three yards a carry

2
7
4
5
18
2
3
3
3
3
3

Not the impact of a guy you have to keep feeding the ball too.

You could of tried your luck with Harris but you could just as easily keep the ball in Rodgers' hands and let him put it in Jennings, Jones, Finley, Cobb and Nelson's hands.


I completely agree, it is not like we have an elite back like AP or Lynch back there and it is not like Harris was running all over the 49ers. I think he was running effectively, but I would not say he was dominating the 49ers D. Plus, take that 18 yard run out of there and he is averaging 3.5 yards per carry. Also, as you mentioned we were putting the ball in the hands of our best player and one of the leagues best players.

I think that there are other advantage to running the ball, like giving our defense more of a break and slowing down the 49ers, but I can I fault McCarthy for giving the ball to Rodgers when we are down in a playoff game, no. I trust the ball in Rodgers hands 10 out of 10 times.
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TheGreatZepp


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the real difference in actual time between Rodgers under center running the playclock down to under five and throwing an incompletion and handing the ball off for three yards? Can't be more then 3-4 seconds I'd imagine, some of those incompletions especially deep throws probably run more real time then a called run for a short game does. Game clock is different but actual clock...

It's setting the ball
running play clock
run the play
marking ball
repeat.

The difference between a run and a pass isn't much if any.


The slowing and wearing down the defense comes form getting first downs and there's not any better odds the Packers would of been getting more 1st downs running three times in stead of passing.
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HokieHigh


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the outside looking in, it seems that he has built a top to bottom family culture in the organization that emphasizes accountability and availability. Are you available to be a year round professional? Are you available to attend all team activities? Do you hold yourself accountable for the product you put on the field? Do you hold yourself accountable for your actions off the field?

It all plays into the build from within mentality that you can see from the practice squad to mark Murphy.
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Blink


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like McCarthy a lot overall, he has a tendency to drive me crazy at times but more often than not he makes the right call. MM is a coach you keep, you don't get rid of a guy like that without having someone else who is an obvious upgrade.

He tends to abandon the run early, this is pretty obvious to everyone. He also calls a pretty weak run game, IMO. It's a very basic look, it honestly looks like we run the same play over and over. I would like to see more draws, misdirections, tosses, anything but a Kuhn dive. Need to get some more creativity in the run game, get some guards laying blocks downfield.

He's loyal to a fault. Crosby was never even close to losing his job during a stupid awful stretch, most coaches would've brought in some competition at the very least. I also didn't like how he reacted to comments on Dom at the end of the season. He acted indignant, insulted even to have to answer. If someone fails that hard there should be a little heat on him, I was kind of embarassed he acted like Dom could do no wrong. If accountability is one of the main staples that you preach, you cannot act like this to the media.


Short yardage. Half the time if the crowd yells Kuhn loud enough MM just gives in and runs the most painfully obvious FB dive ever, this never works. Also really tired of seeing us go for 50 yard bombs on 3rd and 3. I think we could sustain drives a whole lot better if we settled for the first down more often instead of taking shots deep. Patience.

I think he's in the upper tier of coaches right now, and if we fired him I really doubt there's anyone available that would produce better results.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenBlood wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:

He's clearly one of the best coaches in the NFL and there really aren't a whole lot of guys that come to mind that I'd take over him. He's in the Elite NFL Coaching class, no doubt about it to me.


Do elite coaches take their RB who is averaging 5 yards per carry and bench him the entire second half of a playoff game?


Although I would have love to see Harris continue running the ball in the second half I cannot get too upset with McCarthy for that. If you read his explanation it makes a lot of sense.

First drive of the second half Harris carried the ball the first two plays for 6 yards and on third down Rodgers was sacked.

Second drive of the second half they utilized the Cobb package and he ran the ball. They ended up getting a field goal and tied the game at 24.

Third drive of the second half (down by 7) they tried to open up the field and pass the ball. Unfortunately we could only get one first down and then had to punt.

San Francisco then went down and scored another touchdown to go up 14. We could have tried to continue to run at this point, but it was the start of the fourth quarter and we were down by 14, passing was a must. Plus we are a team that is capable of striking quickly and move the ball by passing. Unfortunately the passing game did not click, but I cannot fault McCarthy for that.


I'm sorry but if you're getting nearly 5 per carry against one of the best run defenses, and you only give it to that guy 1 time in the entire second half, then it tells me you have no clue how to use your runners. MM completely ditches the running game as soon as we are down by more than a TD. When we're not passing effectively and not running the ball by choice, that means heavy minutes for the defense. I don't know of very many coaches who would look at his RBs half time production and see 10 carries for 50 yards who would only let that guy run one more time the entire game. No excuse for that. How does that conversation go? "Okay, let's look at what's working for us... passing game is doing okay. Run game is really working well. Hmm.. but we're down by 3 points. Okay, 5 yards a pop isn't going to cut it, so no more running..."


I'm with you, Green. I like MM. He's a great coach and we've had a ton of success with him as our HC but his handling of our running game drives me nuts. Harris was doing great but for some damn reason he chucks it after half time. Somebody in his headphone has to tell him if it ain't broke....!!!
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

packattack86 wrote:
I think Mac is a very good coach, but from time to time he makes stupid calls. There are 2 things Mac does that bother me.

1. Quite often it seems like it takes him way too long before making in game adjustments. For example, Arod could be getting crushed by a teams pass rush and Mac will keep trying to spread it out, finally after half time he will come out and put a RB or TE in to block.

2. Random stupid play calls - Once in awhile Mac will call some very stupid plays like on 3rd and 1 he'll try throwing deep, or throwing to Kuhn in the flat, little things like that.


I don't know if it was also his call but we could add that lovely little lateral pass by Cobb in the Bears game as another one MM and company should take out of the playbook. Confused
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
GreenBlood wrote:
2Bigby0 wrote:

He's clearly one of the best coaches in the NFL and there really aren't a whole lot of guys that come to mind that I'd take over him. He's in the Elite NFL Coaching class, no doubt about it to me.


Do elite coaches take their RB who is averaging 5 yards per carry and bench him the entire second half of a playoff game?


Although I would have love to see Harris continue running the ball in the second half I cannot get too upset with McCarthy for that. If you read his explanation it makes a lot of sense.

First drive of the second half Harris carried the ball the first two plays for 6 yards and on third down Rodgers was sacked.

Second drive of the second half they utilized the Cobb package and he ran the ball. They ended up getting a field goal and tied the game at 24.

Third drive of the second half (down by 7) they tried to open up the field and pass the ball. Unfortunately we could only get one first down and then had to punt.

San Francisco then went down and scored another touchdown to go up 14. We could have tried to continue to run at this point, but it was the start of the fourth quarter and we were down by 14, passing was a must. Plus we are a team that is capable of striking quickly and move the ball by passing. Unfortunately the passing game did not click, but I cannot fault McCarthy for that.


I'm sorry but if you're getting nearly 5 per carry against one of the best run defenses, and you only give it to that guy 1 time in the entire second half, then it tells me you have no clue how to use your runners. MM completely ditches the running game as soon as we are down by more than a TD. When we're not passing effectively and not running the ball by choice, that means heavy minutes for the defense. I don't know of very many coaches who would look at his RBs half time production and see 10 carries for 50 yards who would only let that guy run one more time the entire game. No excuse for that. How does that conversation go? "Okay, let's look at what's working for us... passing game is doing okay. Run game is really working well. Hmm.. but we're down by 3 points. Okay, 5 yards a pop isn't going to cut it, so no more run]ning..."
Harris got the ball the first TWO plays of the second half, at least get it right if you're going to constantly complain about only giving him one carry. On top of that, four of the first ten plays of the second half were runs.

But no you're right let's take the ball out of the best player in the league's hands where he can spread the ball around to the team's playmakers. Give it to a guy who has an outlier affecting his average that while he may have had an official average of five yards, he was getting three yards a carry

2
7
4
5
18
2
3
3
3
3
3

Not the impact of a guy you have to keep feeding the ball too.

You could of tried your luck with Harris but you could just as easily keep the ball in Rodgers' hands and let him put it in Jennings, Jones, Finley, Cobb and Nelson's hands.


Really? I didn't recall seeing Harris in there in the second half that much. I thought MM put Cobb in the backfield a few times instead after halftime...
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JBURGE25


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 4-7 range for me. I have complete faith in him week in and week out. Many of our losses are bad match ups for us, and he usually keeps them close.
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