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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board
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fredsnotdeadyet


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?
BPA! You always take Best Player Available at your selection.


I would disagree. If you got two guys ranked very close to each other, but one fills a bigger need then the other, then you take the guy who fills the bigger need and that you believe would have the bigger impact (also depending on how deep the draft is). I think that you should look at the top of your board, but you shouldn't lock your self in to always taking the player ranked the highest.
Well, in this case, most likely Vaccaro would be a need as well. And a very talanted Safety is what really makes the Tampa 2. It's something that we do not have yet on this team to make Kiffen's system work. Safety play has been atrocious for many many years, same with our Oline. Neglected by drafting of talent.

So, I would say if Vaccaro is there at our selection, and he is the top rated person, yes, you take him. He is an upgrade over what we have and IMO, can be a difference maker for our secondary in the new system


I think it has a lot to do with that I don't love him as much as others on this forum. Do I think that he will be a great safety in the NFL? yes. But if he was taken with either Cooper or Ansah on the board, I wouldn't be happy at all since I think these guys are something that simply is so rare to find on draft day. They are both the most athletic guys at their respective positions in the draft, and has almost unlimited potential and a will that can make them achieve that.

I know that the question was, if the Cowboys would have him ranked at the top of their board. But well, then I would just think that they have ranked him wrong if Ansah or Cooper is there. My comment before, was just pointed at if you should go for BPA in general.

- If they both are gone, I wouldn't mind Vacarro. Or Elam for that sake, who ever Kiffin and our DB coach feels will fit the system they want to run the best.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)
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fredsnotdeadyet


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)


Im not basing it off need, I said AS A PLAYER I have Cooper rated higher then Milliner. I also said everybodys board is different and thats why you and me are not working for an NFL team as a GM
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emmittsmith22 wrote:
So if the Eagles plan to switch to the 34 and they pick 4th wouldn't they have a strong chance of landing Star Louteliei? There Dline would be Cullen Jenkins Star Louteliei and Fletcher Cox..... Shocked


Not sure Star's there at 4, and Cullen Jenkins isn't that great anymore.

Also, as good as that is on paper, all of those guys are much better fits for 1-gap than 2-gap, and I don't know if they have the linebackers to play 1-gap.
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Bailey134


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)


Im not basing it off need, I said AS A PLAYER I have Cooper rated higher then Milliner. I also said everybodys board is different and thats why you and me are not working for an NFL team as a GM


When you have no money to address anything in free agency and you have a huge hole to fill you have to draft by need. We need immediate starters not another corner. Why dont we just have the entire cap tied up in corners that seems smart, while tony is still getting killed on the field. But atleast we took the best corner.
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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


How would that help the team ? The difference between 5-11 in this draft is not that great. And yikes , really you have Milliner that high ? Just asking....
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)


Im not basing it off need, I said AS A PLAYER I have Cooper rated higher then Milliner. I also said everybodys board is different and thats why you and me are not working for an NFL team as a GM


The bolded is more what I was referring to. I understand that we have Cooper and Milliner ranked differently, but in regards to the bold, I disagree. You rank players for a reason, so if one is slightly above the other, he is slightly above the other for a reason, and you should stick to your board.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)
the problem there is, you don't rate a player based on your needs. You rate the player on that players ability.

Takeing a player that is lower, because it fills a need, is called reaching. It's the same thing we have done in the past and it burned us. You never reach for a player because it fills a need. You let the draft come to you and go by your board.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


How would that help the team ? The difference between 5-11 in this draft is not that great. And yikes , really you have Milliner that high ? Just asking....


Because I think it would help the team in the long run. As opposed to reaching for certain players (obviously Cooper at 18 isn't a reach, but lets say we are picking eight or something), we can look at drafting the best players in the long run.

Yeah, I am pretty high on Milliner. Then again, its a pretty weak draft at the top, and that is being generous.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)
the problem there is, you don't rate a player based on your needs. You rate the player on that players ability.

Takeing a player that is lower, because it fills a need, is called reaching. It's the same thing we have done in the past and it burned us. You never reach for a player because it fills a need. You let the draft come to you and go by your board.


Exactly, that is what I was trying to say
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
textaz03 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
fredsnotdeadyet wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I guess the question I'm trying to ask everybody is this:

Ignore your personal opinions on each player for a minute. This is about how you want the Cowboys as an organization to operate.

If the Cowboys put together their board and a guy like Vaccaro ends up as the top rated player available at our pick, should we take him? Or should we force the issue on defensive/offensive line?


Definitely BPA. I don't care if its another corner to be honest. If somehow Dee Milliner is there when we pick, we have to take him over the likes of a lineman. I think you take the top guy on your board, and if the team thinks highly of Vaccaro, they should take him instead of reaching for Short, Warford, etc.


So if Cooper and Milliner are both on the board when Dallas picks you would take Milliner ? Even though he would have no chance at starting and Cooper would ?


Yes, my current big board has Milliner at five, and Cooper at eleven. I would take the higher player on my board


Every board is different but as far as player Cooper I have him much higher then Milliner. Also OL is a need and if you have 2 players very close to each other you always take the one with the need. If you rated them and its not even close then yea you take the BPA


If the position of need is important, then I would rate Cooper higher than Milliner. It isn't for me though, so if I have a guy rated 5 and another rated 6, I take the guy rated 5 every time. Different people have different philosophies though, and I understand the logic behind need (is it called VORP?)
the problem there is, you don't rate a player based on your needs. You rate the player on that players ability.

Takeing a player that is lower, because it fills a need, is called reaching. It's the same thing we have done in the past and it burned us. You never reach for a player because it fills a need. You let the draft come to you and go by your board.


Exactly, that is what I was trying to say


So.. How do you guys know we haven't taken the guys at the top of our board in the past?
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKDALfan wrote:
So.. How do you guys know we haven't taken the guys at the top of our board in the past?


To be honest, I don't.

And just to clarify, in the previous scenario, my number one move would be to move down.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just now watching the game, but Jonathan Cyprien is quickly becoming my number 2 or 3 safety. LOVE his game.
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