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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13910
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to see Fisher in Green Bay at 26. Lets be real here though guys. The odds of him being there at 26 now that Taylor Lewan went back to school are not that great. A&M holds the "safe" card but one could make a damn strong case for Fisher having the most Left Tackle upside in this class.

If you looking for a LT in that tier there is a good chance Johnson will land in that grade area by the time the draft comes around but at that point I think I would much rather hold out on Sherrod knowing that Newhouse is in camp as well. Johnson could be a good player down the road but the odds of him beating out Newhouse this year are slim IMO. At that point Sherrod would/should hold a talent lean there.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
good, I don't want a 1st round back-up OT anyway.


Let's wait until we actually see Derek Sherrod on the field before we go making claims like that. Marshall Newhouse is a below-average LT, and probably among the worst. He's serviceable at best. Really wish we could find a Ryan Clady in this draft.


Sherrod was a 1st round pick too. That's my point. We'd have 3 first round OTs over the last 3 years.

I don't want a 1st round back-up OT.


Three? Eh?
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Packerraymond


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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:


why would i ask? because you made a claim about an injury to Rodgers. If it's 'common sense' it should be easy for you to show a correlation between tackle play and QB injuries, right? Otherwise it's just a lame-duck cliche with no value to actual analysis of the situation (this is my contention).

So replace a true guard who just got a nice contract extension and is playing good football? makes no sense...

It's not foolish to avoid a position you've drafted 2 guys in 1st round in the previous 2 drafts. It's smart. It's all about resource allocation with you're working with a finite number of roster spots. OT is probably 3rd to last on the list of positions we should take in 1st round behind K, P and QB.


Can't agree with you here Incog, the team with the worst tackle play this year was Arizona, they saw injuries to 2 starting QBs. It would take a long time but I think you could make a correlation between poor tackle play and injuries to QBs. Blindsided hits result in injuries, being able to read and react beofre being hit is a way to prevent injury. Aarons had two concussions, and I can tell you if he doesn't get hit he wont get hurt, so that should be our goal going into every game, as unrealistic as it may be.

Derek Sherrod should not be counted on for anything, same as Justin Harrell. If the opportunity to take someone you feel is a franchise LT is presented only a foolish GM would pass it up. I doubt TT would, which is why he is one of the best.
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CornOnDaCobb


Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 535
Location: Tampa, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
incognito_man wrote:


why would i ask? because you made a claim about an injury to Rodgers. If it's 'common sense' it should be easy for you to show a correlation between tackle play and QB injuries, right? Otherwise it's just a lame-duck cliche with no value to actual analysis of the situation (this is my contention).

So replace a true guard who just got a nice contract extension and is playing good football? makes no sense...

It's not foolish to avoid a position you've drafted 2 guys in 1st round in the previous 2 drafts. It's smart. It's all about resource allocation with you're working with a finite number of roster spots. OT is probably 3rd to last on the list of positions we should take in 1st round behind K, P and QB.


Can't agree with you here Incog, the team with the worst tackle play this year was Arizona, they saw injuries to 2 starting QBs. It would take a long time but I think you could make a correlation between poor tackle play and injuries to QBs. Blindsided hits result in injuries, being able to read and react beofre being hit is a way to prevent injury. Aarons had two concussions, and I can tell you if he doesn't get hit he wont get hurt, so that should be our goal going into every game, as unrealistic as it may be.

Derek Sherrod should not be counted on for anything, same as Justin Harrell. If the opportunity to take someone you feel is a franchise LT is presented only a foolish GM would pass it up. I doubt TT would, which is why he is one of the best.


Difference is Harrell was always injury prone dating back to college, Sherrod just had one bad injury that has lasted into this year. Fact is that we have enough talent at the left tackle position to justify it not being an immediate need right now. I for one would be extremely dissappointed if we went OT in round 1 unless Jockel drops which hes obviously not. I can definitely see us taking one in round 3 or 4 for insurance yea of course but right now we have to see what Sherrod can do and if not then we have a proven starter at least in Newhouse. IMO just by replacing Saturday and the fact that Bulagas coming back is reason enough to be excited for our pass protection next season, if Sherrod bursts out onto the scene that will be icing on the cake. Remember Newhouse was our starting tackle when we went 15-1 and scored the 2nd most points in history, hes not a huge issue.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to agree with that. LT is not the issue on the O-line, the issue is a dependable Center and I don't think we can crown EDS as a bonafide Center yet.


I find it amusing that everyone keeps forgetting why we've lost in the playoffs the last two years and then 2009 in Arizona: THE DEFENSE...


Scheme is the issue sure, I believe that, but aside from that, you look at overall execution and tackling. All during the season, tackling has been quite an issue for our defense, especially that secondary. Slowpoke Williams can't tackle and has proven for a second straight year that he's a massive liability in zone. I know that hurts other posters to read that, but it's true. The guy just can't play zone. That aside, the safeties are almost a bigger issue. MD Jennings likes to take ball carriers for a ride when tackling, Morgan Burnett is inconsistent and the best Safety play we got out of that group this year was McMillian who was a rookie. Right now, I'd have to say that Center, followed very closely by Safety, is our biggest concern.

We need to be focused on that secondary and we need some pass rushers. I'm not concerned about the D-line too much sparing a back-up NT because we don't know what will become of Ryan Pickett. He played better this year than last, but we can't count on him making it past training camp because of his age.

Also, we saw what happened after Perry and CMIII went down. Walden is great as a spot player, but cannot be relied upon as the starter. Gotta have at least one more stud pass rusher. Not sure if Okafor can be that guy. It's a secondary need and this year's OLB class is actually pretty bad from what I've seen.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 32008
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
good, I don't want a 1st round back-up OT anyway.


Let's wait until we actually see Derek Sherrod on the field before we go making claims like that. Marshall Newhouse is a below-average LT, and probably among the worst. He's serviceable at best. Really wish we could find a Ryan Clady in this draft.


Sherrod was a 1st round pick too. That's my point. We'd have 3 first round OTs over the last 3 years.

I don't want a 1st round back-up OT.


Three? Eh?
sorry over last 4 years
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
incognito_man wrote:


why would i ask? because you made a claim about an injury to Rodgers. If it's 'common sense' it should be easy for you to show a correlation between tackle play and QB injuries, right? Otherwise it's just a lame-duck cliche with no value to actual analysis of the situation (this is my contention).

So replace a true guard who just got a nice contract extension and is playing good football? makes no sense...

It's not foolish to avoid a position you've drafted 2 guys in 1st round in the previous 2 drafts. It's smart. It's all about resource allocation with you're working with a finite number of roster spots. OT is probably 3rd to last on the list of positions we should take in 1st round behind K, P and QB.


Can't agree with you here Incog, the team with the worst tackle play this year was Arizona, they saw injuries to 2 starting QBs. It would take a long time but I think you could make a correlation between poor tackle play and injuries to QBs. Blindsided hits result in injuries, being able to read and react beofre being hit is a way to prevent injury. Aarons had two concussions, and I can tell you if he doesn't get hit he wont get hurt, so that should be our goal going into every game, as unrealistic as it may be.

Derek Sherrod should not be counted on for anything, same as Justin Harrell. If the opportunity to take someone you feel is a franchise LT is presented only a foolish GM would pass it up. I doubt TT would, which is why he is one of the best.
of your examples, Rodgers got at least one concussion while running- - not an OTs fault and Kolb was hurt by a DT again not due to poor OT play. I suspect more QB injuries occur from interior rushers actually. Just don't see any value in taking 3 first round OTs when the first two haven't busted. Other areas on the team need talent infusion far more than OT.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4137
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
I'd have to agree with that. LT is not the issue on the O-line, the issue is a dependable Center and I don't think we can crown EDS as a bonafide Center yet.


I find it amusing that everyone keeps forgetting why we've lost in the playoffs the last two years and then 2009 in Arizona: THE DEFENSE...


Scheme is the issue sure, I believe that, but aside from that, you look at overall execution and tackling. All during the season, tackling has been quite an issue for our defense, especially that secondary. Slowpoke Williams can't tackle and has proven for a second straight year that he's a massive liability in zone. I know that hurts other posters to read that, but it's true. The guy just can't play zone. That aside, the safeties are almost a bigger issue. MD Jennings likes to take ball carriers for a ride when tackling, Morgan Burnett is inconsistent and the best Safety play we got out of that group this year was McMillian who was a rookie. Right now, I'd have to say that Center, followed very closely by Safety, is our biggest concern.

We need to be focused on that secondary and we need some pass rushers. I'm not concerned about the D-line too much sparing a back-up NT because we don't know what will become of Ryan Pickett. He played better this year than last, but we can't count on him making it past training camp because of his age.

Also, we saw what happened after Perry and CMIII went down. Walden is great as a spot player, but cannot be relied upon as the starter. Gotta have at least one more stud pass rusher. Not sure if Okafor can be that guy. It's a secondary need and this year's OLB class is actually pretty bad from what I've seen.


Actually if you look into publications that analze missed tackles and how well teams tackly, they have the Packers in the top 5 this past year. The tackling is not the problem, the problem is lack of health and a lack of elite players at key positions. Too many borderline players in key positions this year due to health- Walden, Jones and anyone playing opposite Burnett this year are completely borderline players. Need real quality NFL starters at those positions and the defense will be fine in its current scheme.

Wilson, Raji and Pickett need less reps as well. Especially Pickett- he played way too many snaps this year. Neal, Worthy and Daniels all need to improve in the offseason and I think everyone would like to see additional dlinemen added to this mix.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 32008
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked into a couple UConn prospects:

Trevardo Williams seems like a fringe 1st/2nd round guy based on what I've seen. Interesting to see how he tests at the combine. If he runs and jumps well I wouldn't be surprised to see him sneak into the first. Looks good out there and I was surprised by how well he held up against the run for his size.

Curious to see if Dwayne Gratz could transition to safety. I was watching cut-ups of Williams and Gratz jumped out on the screen to me. I thought he was a safety with the way he attacked the ball against the run. Looked good in m2m coverage as well. Another interesting guy potentially in the 2nd or 3rd round area.
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airstrike082


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 1109
Location: Tampa
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did Duke Williams look today?
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quinton Patton looked darn good today apparently, I like the fit in Green Bay a lot, I'm just not sure where he goes/where he'd be high board.

But it's been a while since we took a day 2 WR.
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I Am Rodgers


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Quinton Patton looked darn good today apparently, I like the fit in Green Bay a lot, I'm just not sure where he goes/where he'd be high board.

But it's been a while since we took a day 2 WR.


Yeah since....Cobb. Lol.
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Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews.
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2Bigby0


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Quinton Patton looked darn good today apparently, I like the fit in Green Bay a lot, I'm just not sure where he goes/where he'd be high board.

But it's been a while since we took a day 2 WR.


In both the mocks I've done I've had Patton as a 4th Rounder... He's going higher than that. He's honestly my favorite receiver in the draft for our offense. I like him a lot, he can run all the routes... And for people that think he's slow, guys is going to run a 4.4 40
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Am Rodgers wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Quinton Patton looked darn good today apparently, I like the fit in Green Bay a lot, I'm just not sure where he goes/where he'd be high board.

But it's been a while since we took a day 2 WR.


Yeah since....Cobb. Lol.


2005-2008, four WRs taken on day 2.

2009-2012, one WR taken on day 2.
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I Am Rodgers


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I Am Rodgers wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Quinton Patton looked darn good today apparently, I like the fit in Green Bay a lot, I'm just not sure where he goes/where he'd be high board.

But it's been a while since we took a day 2 WR.


Yeah since....Cobb. Lol.


2005-2008, four WRs taken on day 2.

2009-2012, one WR taken on day 2.


And 3 of them are still on the roster for next season. Don't get me wrong, I want to draft a WR also, but the fact is we had no weapons. TT hit on some and reloaded the stable. Now its not as pressing a need.
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Good thing for talky-talk Harbaugh he has an outstanding citizen/player like Aldon Smith on his team and not a classless hooligan like Clay Matthews.
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